Is it me or is there some new writing trend that involves using multiple And's instead of comma’s in a sentences?
Someone school me here.
Depends on the person's style. I use commas, maybe an "and".
Maybe they're aping Cormac McCarthy.
Cormac McCarthy"
He does use a lot of them. It can be sloppy and repetitive if you don't do it right.
I just can't seem to fit the style in my writting, but I must say some people pull it off well. Others though make me want to pull my hair out.
Yeah I see it a couple times. Usually I see it done well. I guess it's how and when you decide to use it.
I just turn it into a drinking game. It makes doing reviews so much easier.
Well it's like submerging the 'I' , some people can do it, some can't. If you do it right, you won't even notice.
""He turned South along the old war trail and he rode out to the crest of a low rise and dismounted and dropped the reins and walked out and stood like a man come to the end of something.""
I don't even notice the 'and' in this....it just sort of flows along....plus it's just stylistic....if I see it and it works, then I won't grade so poorly....just like simple or repetitive dialogue...if it works, it works...
It's lazy. I can't enjoy a McCarthy book until I get used to the ands and stop being annoyed by them. Writers are just aping him. I'm going to notice the ands every time, regardless of how well written something is. It's like a fucking gong.
""He turned South along the old war trail and he rode out to the crest of a low rise and dismounted and dropped the reins and walked out and stood like a man come to the end of something.""
FFS. That's thirty bucks worth of shots in one sentence. How can you NOT notice that? I'd be dead by the end of a paragraph. That's not a writing style, that's the Patron challenge disquised as a sentence. A death sentence.
And what is the problem? It's like starting a sentence with the word...BUT! Or using literary devices such as (interior thoughts in parentheses) or making them in italics to signify subtext.
It's the literary equivalent of typing IN ALL CAPS IN A FORUM.
Well, some people like it, some don't. Simple as that. Also, STOP YELLING~
I think it depends on how it is used. In the sentence Grigori posted above, well, that is annoying. However, I think in a list it can sometimes be used to create more tension. I'm trying to think of a good example, but I can't. Maybe later.
That was all Matt. Not me.
Sorry. Okay, Matt's was annoying. I'll finish at least one cup of coffee before I make any more comments - promise.
tis called polysyndeton and its used to give a run-on effect. you:re allowed not to use it.
It's a good literary device to use when you're writing in first person and your protagonist just snorted a lot of cocaine.
Until recently, I also thought a run-on sentence was a sentence that was too long, but that's incorrect. So now I refer to them as "stupid sentences that are too long" instead of run-ons.
This is a run-on sentence, it has a comma splice.
This is a run-on sentence it contains two independent clauses that aren't joined by a punctuation mark or a conjuction.
That's not a writing style, that's the Patron challenge disquised as a sentence.
Mr. Black, I'm going to have to start reading your work. That shit was funny.
McCarthy was aping the Bible
^^
this too
I mean I understand the idea of it. It is to create an intense melodic effect to sort of make the reader feel like they are trapped in a moment and can't get out of it and there is a sort of whimsy to their madness like if they were trapped in a burning building and can't get out and there is smoke everywhere and there is a little girl screaming and you can't reach her and Spiderman comes through the window and then he gets lit on fire and you have to become Spiderman and suddenly you hear laughter behind you and realize the Green Goblin is there and you punch the little girl in the face and throw her at him to get away and then you are running down the stairs and suddenly you fall and break your leg and you realize you have to gnaw it off to get away and the Green Goblin turns out to be Mr. T and then you say "Hey Man, I liked you in the 80's" and he is like, "I pity the fool that don't like me now" and you are like, "Whatever, you are just a bad joke now" and then you get to the street where the firefighters greet you and you notice one of them looks like William Baldwin and then you puke--
lol
Makes sense to use it occasionally. Not when it's the entire book.
Bret Easton Ellis does it a lot too, at least in American Psycho, but it seems to work.
Yeah, Rules of Attraction is like that. It's kind of annoying.
Hm. Only thing I have read by McCarthy was a 78 word story he did for Esquire. I have seen the "And" thing and enjoyed it, I've likely used it more than once. I think certain scenes call for breaking the rules, or making new ones and Danny's example is a really good one. If the whole book was like that, it might mess me up, but I think I'd get over it. I can usually stop reading as a critic about 1/4 of the way into a book.
double post.
I tried doing the "and" thing in one of my short stories. Nobody seemed to enjoy it.
Polysyndeton? How the fuck did you know this word?
I'm just amazed.
I like the ands, particularly how McCarthy uses them. He's a contemplative author and it slows the pace, makes it more methodical. To me, it somehow conveys the lonely existence of his characters. I read McCarthy's style as a big fuck you to the fast talking, manic, "please pay attention to me" tone that constantly bombards me from all directions. But its really just a matter of taste. If an author understands the effect of any device on a reader, they can utilize that device well.
McCarthy is too much of a craftsman to be aping anything.
Polysyndeton? How the fuck did you know this word?
I'm just amazed.
I can't speak for typie... but this is one of my favorite pages on the whole of the internet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_speech
Well, there goes my whole day.
But its really just a matter of taste."
'
Exactly.
Hemingway immediatly comes to mind. Mine anyway. It works sometimes, others not so much.
I've never read McCarthy. The Ands I've been seeing have been in columns, written advertisments, also in some reveiws in mags like Gameinformer. If I could master this to where it didn't seem noticeable, the word count in my writings would double (I'm very ocd about my word count).
I don't know about other people, but it's ALWAYS going to be noticeable to me and the idea that it's ever not noticeable perplexes me. The only way it will stop being noticeable is if everyone starts doing it all the time and I get used to it.
God I hope it dose'nt come to that. Maybe it will be like ADD and everyone will have it then it just disappears.
Hey whats your take on word count. I feel like I have to hit a goal, but my wife is like "Just write and don't worry about it." Done that once and when I was finished, I was so under in the count I rewote the whole thing and didn't seem as good as the first time. :(
I'm of the belief that the fewer words you use to tell the story right, the better. More only makes for slop that should be cut.
Some people love superfluous prose, though. To each his own, even if they are dead wrong.
Use a word count goal each time you write if you need to motivate yourself to write a decent amount. Don't use it if you don't need the motivation. I use a word count goal myself.
Or instead of trying to hit a specific word count, you can aim for getting to a specific point in your story or book each time you write.
Not sure if I misunderstood you, but rewriting something to make it longer just for the sake of making it longer doesn't make any sense. But cutting out everything that is unnecessary from a piece of writing will make it stronger.
"To each his own, even if they are dead wrong."
Love it!!!
Bradley you understood me perfectly thank you. Feedback is encouraging
Howle I'm with you about the fewer is better. The thing that gets me is how some agent’s and publishers say they will only read manuscripts of a set amount of words. (like 55k +) Get me?
Got ya. Throw in a sex scene. It's the 80's way of padding out a story/movie.
Nothing moves the plot forward like a well placed sex scene.
Bobby: Most novels published by large presses are around 300 or more pages. Most books published by large presses have 100 or more pages worth of material that should have been deleted because it's filler. This convention has been detrimental to many books. This is one of my reasons why I usually prefer small press books.
Now are you talking 300 pages on the final product or double spaced manuscript. I've seen several novel in final form having 300 pages and differing from 50k to 75k word counts. Granted the page sizes were altered to make for more pages on the lighter.
Howle: I have two interrupted sex scenes in a zombie outbreak.
Final product. And it varies, but 300 double-spaced pages of manuscript would probably be around 300 pages in a conventional book. It depends on a lot of factors.
Do you think it's a slowing-down pace thing. When you want the reader to linger sometimes have longer sentences -- this is slow and easy and I want you to stay here and visit and see what I have to say. When you don't, make them short and quick with commas, not "ands," like stay here visit, now get the hell out. Does that make any sense?
True. Dam I'm way off my topic now. I'm going to look up some before and afters so to speak.
It speeds things up for me rather than slows them down. Unlike ands, commas convey a pause.
Hmm heres something. I have a few scene where the protagonists' adrenalin is going so everything slows around him during a car accident, would Ands be a good thing to try to use here?
