Instag8r's picture
Instag8r from Residing in Parker, CO but originally from WV is reading Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy December 1, 2011 - 10:45am

“I would advise anyone who aspires to a writing career that before developing his talent he would be wise to develop a thick hide.”
—Harper Lee

Fylh's picture
Fylh from from from is reading is from is reading is reading is reading reading is reading December 1, 2011 - 10:50am

Agreed.

wickedvoodoo's picture
wickedvoodoo from Mansfield, England is reading stuff. December 1, 2011 - 10:53am

Indeed. Wise words.

Though it's probably not just writers. Anyone who indulges a little 'creative artistry' better be prepared for someone somewhere to point and say that everything they've ever worked on fucking sucks.

Way of the world.

Saying that I really don't think it's a huge problem for most folks. Take this site for example - even when people get tough reviews there are no hissy fits or anything. People know the score.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest December 1, 2011 - 10:54am

I agree. If you can't take the punches, get out of the ring.

Instag8r's picture
Instag8r from Residing in Parker, CO but originally from WV is reading Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy December 1, 2011 - 11:04am

Yep, I learned this a long time ago in the art world.

My first portfolio critique was from a photographer that I really respected. I asked him what my photos lacked and he responded, "Talent and Vision."

It caught me by so much surprise that I started laughing and said, "Well, that gives me something to work on, doesn't it?"

He started laughing too. We are best friends now.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest December 1, 2011 - 12:36pm

@Instag8r: Great way to handle that situation. If you believe you can do something, you can. 

aliensoul77's picture
aliensoul77 from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall. December 1, 2011 - 1:22pm

Or be like Kanye West and say everyone is out to get you if they don't admire your artistic genius lol.

 

misskokamon's picture
misskokamon from San Francisco is reading The Moonlit Mind December 1, 2011 - 2:38pm

I'm lucky in that I went to art school, and interpreting critique is something we have to learn.

Or else everyone hates you.

It's still a bit scary though. 

The last time I felt upset over a critique was a couple months ago at work. One of my team members straight out called one of my animations ugly, and I didn't know how I was supposed to feel about that. It's like calling someone's writing bad--you don't tell them what's bad about it, what's working enough for them to push, what is in desperate need of changing, you just say it's BAD. I didn't tell anyone how bothered I was by the judgement until a few weeks later,  and only when I felt better and had figured out why it got to me: it wasn't helpful.

The bad thing about the internet is anyone can say anything about anything and they don't think about how hurtful it can be. On the other hand, the good thing about the internet is when people want their opinion taken seriously, they list out all the things that bothered them about whatever it is they're passing judgement on. (otherwise they're labeled as trolls and dismissed.) I don't think I'd mind someone posting a blog about how my latest novel sucked, so long as they list the reasons why. At least I'd learn something from it!

 

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest December 1, 2011 - 2:43pm

Fuck Kanye...

ReneeAPickup's picture
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup from Southern California is reading A truckload of books December 1, 2011 - 2:44pm

Alien--I am already like Kanye in that I think Taylor Swift doesn't deserve awards...

wakka wakka!

Nick Wilczynski's picture
Nick Wilczynski from Greensboro, NC is reading A Dance with Dragons by George R.R. Martin December 1, 2011 - 4:06pm

I love Kanye West. And Beyonce totally did deserve that award. And also, as a Kanye Fan, I spent weeks trying to explain how what he had done was actually a magnificent bit of performance art designed to parody Rep. Joe Wilson's interruption of the State of the Union a few days earlier. But now nobody remembers Wilson and he got away without any real reproach (and don't give me any shit about how some guy on MSNBC was horrified and ranted on and on about it, getting bashed by the morons on MSNBC is good press in South Carolina and hardly amounts to legitimate moral or professional judgement for people who happen not to agree with their politics),

Anyways.

Criticism never bothers me. I am pretty good at breaking down criticism to it's component parts so that I can find the useful bits, I mean, that's why I workshop my short stories instead of posting them on my fridge. My siblings and I were cut-throat when we were growing up, I lost all capacity to feel offense long ago. Of course, this also means that sometimes I am talking to people and someone who has overheard me tells me, as we watch whoever I had been speaking with run to the bathroom to cry "that was the most vicious and spiteful thing I've ever heard why would you say something like that?" and I have no idea what they mean because I wouldn't have been offended by anything I just said. And then, when I apologize, they can tell I don't mean it because I still don't understand why anyone would ever be offended by anything I'd said. Then they ask me to drive them home, but won't meet my eyes or talk to me at all no matter how long the car trip.

You don't have to be a calloused prick to make art, sure. But it does help.

Instag8r's picture
Instag8r from Residing in Parker, CO but originally from WV is reading Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy December 1, 2011 - 4:17pm

One big difference. Wilson was right. Kanye wasn't.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest December 1, 2011 - 4:23pm

I'm not a Swift fan or a West fan, but when it comes down to it, it's called respect. Despite the fact that Beyonce didn't win, and should have, he should've respected Swift and not interrupted her. Imagine what he would have done if someone had done that to him. He demands respect, but can't give it out unless it helps him in some way. Besides, the incident just made him look like an insensitive asshole.

Nick Wilczynski's picture
Nick Wilczynski from Greensboro, NC is reading A Dance with Dragons by George R.R. Martin December 1, 2011 - 4:57pm

Well, they were both really just expressing opinions. Joe Wilson was responding to Obama claiming that there are cost saving measures in the healthcare reform bill he had recently passed after a long and tedious process. So, according to the CBO there are cost saving measures there, which means that Wilson, in making such a claim was not only being rude, but was also actually wrong in a verifiable way (and, regardless of how we feel about the incident, the opinion that Kanye expressed is not objectively wrong. It's just forever tainted by the way he expressed it).

Unless you want to make the assertion that Wilson was simply claiming that Barack Obama was capable of and did on occassion decieve people, although not in any verifiable way to the American people as a whole or even on that occassion. In that case while bizzare and out of place, "You lie" could be understood as a factual statement.

w/ Kanye So what? He demands respect but won't give it out. It's how he is. I mean, I guess that on some level I believe in my heart that Kanye West is not a real person. Kanye West is a larger than life elaborate act crafted to make us think about ourselves and about hip hop (because the same thing about respect can be said for most other rappers and, let's be honest, a great many people in any artistic profession). He is often wrong, he often behaves badly. But it's always, every time, a teachable moment. And I love his teachable moments.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest December 1, 2011 - 5:00pm

His teachable moments are great, for us. But, he's not learning from his own mistakes. 

 

Nick Wilczynski's picture
Nick Wilczynski from Greensboro, NC is reading A Dance with Dragons by George R.R. Martin December 1, 2011 - 5:08pm

I disagree, he would have faded away by now if that were the case. He's an innovator. He always finds bold new ways to fuck up.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest December 1, 2011 - 5:13pm

He always finds bold new ways to fuck up.

- This is true. Got me on that one.

IDK, I just don't care for him. He's creative and his style is different than the other crap that's out there, but it's just not my cup of tea. Although, that new song with Jay is good. Don't know the name of it, but it's the one where they mangle the hell out of a Maybach in the video. I was pissed. Give that shit to me, I'll treat it better than that. LOL! I guess those are the things you can do when you own half the Knicks.

 

Instag8r's picture
Instag8r from Residing in Parker, CO but originally from WV is reading Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy December 1, 2011 - 5:44pm

Look at the shit Aliensoul77 started just by mentioning a  name. It does drive home the reality that how we are perceived depends on the things we say in public and the way respond to every situation

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest December 1, 2011 - 6:36pm

It's a healthy debate between two people. I don't respect NK any less for his opinions and I'd hope he feels the same about me. 

It's like seeing a car accident. I may see it in a very different way than you do. Reality is only how we perceive it.

Nick Wilczynski's picture
Nick Wilczynski from Greensboro, NC is reading A Dance with Dragons by George R.R. Martin December 1, 2011 - 6:54pm

I totally understand your opinion, if I went around losing respect for people when they disagreed with me well, the philosophy of refusing to be offended wouldn't make a lick of sense.

I mean, it was inevitable that the heat would eventually have to rise in the "thick hide" thread. Otherwise what proof do we have of these claims?

enough's picture
enough from Indiana is reading Warmed and Bound December 1, 2011 - 7:40pm

I do not like Kanye West. I think he made a total ass out of himself with the Taylor Swift thing, even though I dont care for her either.

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters December 1, 2011 - 7:50pm

@Instag8r -  I'm sorry, but in what way was Wilson correct?  That just completely boggles my mind. 

Kanye - I could give a fuck less, it's opinion.  But Wilson....

Instag8r's picture
Instag8r from Residing in Parker, CO but originally from WV is reading Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy December 1, 2011 - 8:28pm

@Raelynn -I don't want to get into a politacl debate here on the forum but I will answer your question and then I'm not going to say another word about it.

Joe Wilson responded directly to the statement that Obama made saying that the "the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally."

Remeber Nancy Pelosi saying, "We need to pass the bill to see what's in it."? (don't get me started on that)

Well, guess what. The bill has been read and Obama lied. Ergo, Joe Wilson was right.

 

aliensoul77's picture
aliensoul77 from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall. December 2, 2011 - 3:39am

Oh wow, look what I started lol

Actually I don't even care about the Taylor Swift thing, I thought that was funny.  I hate how Kanye turned the telethon for Hurricane Katrina into a forum for his "George Bush hates black people" thing.  I thought that was totally inappropriate and ill-timed.  But anyway--I'm used to artists that I like getting criticized.  I used to love Marilyn Manson during the late 90's/early 2000's during the whole Anti-Christ Superstar thing.  I thought his music was very cutting edge and a lot of it was very revealing and critical of the hypocrisy of religious groups which I still feel is relevant today.  His last three albums sucked though and it seems like Lady Gaga has stolen the freak vote from him even though her lyrics have little to no weight compared to his. 

I think Manson's one of the most revealing moments were lyrically when he said in his song:  "I never hated the one true God but the God of the people I hated."  The one true God to him is creativity and art/imagination, not the God of hate that people like the Westboro Baptist Church represent.  They should have been put out of commision years ago after they were protesting dead soldiers funerals and stomping on the American flag in public, that's bullshit. 

Also after 9/11, Manson posted one of his songs in which the lyrics are:  "We're the nobodies, we all want to be somebody but when we're dead, they'll know just who we are."  It reminded me so much of the list of names they printed in the paper after they released all the names of the 9/11 victims and how as a society, it's sad that people do go through their lives as a nobody and it takes a tragedy like that to make them become somebody in the eyes of the world.  Now there's something to think about.

 

 

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters December 2, 2011 - 5:59am

When I was in high school my friends and I wrote a Manson parady called The Beautiful Pencil. 

Brandon's picture
Brandon from KCMO is reading Made to Break December 2, 2011 - 8:01am

George W. does hate black people.

aliensoul77's picture
aliensoul77 from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall. December 2, 2011 - 8:12am

And a live telethon was the time to say it? I don't think he specifically hates anyone. He just doesn't care about people like many men in power.

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters December 2, 2011 - 8:17am

Either way, I felt bad for Mike Meyers.  Probably the most awkward moment in his life. 

aliensoul77's picture
aliensoul77 from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall. December 2, 2011 - 8:20am

I know!!! Well, other than making the Love Guru lol

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters December 2, 2011 - 8:31am

It's his (Mike's) most honest on screen moment.  You can see every "oh fuck" flashing in his eyes. 

Fylh's picture
Fylh from from from is reading is from is reading is reading is reading reading is reading December 2, 2011 - 1:32pm

Kanye West apparently makes decent music (I don't know if I've listened to any of it) but his public appearances, like the Taylor Swift thing and the George Bush Hates Black People thing, are the equivalent of splicing an image of an act of sodomy into an episode of Seinfeld.