R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestApril 3, 2012 - 7:56pm
@Doll: I'm shedding a tear for you, as well.
Bekanator
from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay HunterApril 3, 2012 - 7:57pm
I hear you, Liana. I feel the same way a lot of the time and I always have to remind myself that I do this for the writing. I always seem to get up in this mindset that it's about personal acceptance. I know I'm a good writer, but sometimes when I get negative feedback on my work, I tend to close up for a couple days. It's part of the process, though. I have a drink and a hot bath and then I look at my story a week later and realize that the negative feedback was totally accurate and I'm glad it was said. Internal callouses take a while to form.
Also, you could make a sex joke out of that last statement.
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestApril 3, 2012 - 7:57pm
Amen again B. Tucker.
Bekanator
from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay HunterApril 3, 2012 - 8:01pm
@Nikki - Anything on a forum that isn't sexual innuendos and pictures stolen through Google images is technically DRAMA.
Nikki Guerlain
from Portlandia is reading Necronomicon Book ThreeApril 3, 2012 - 8:03pm
ohhh ... so that's it.
Chester Pane
from Portland, Oregon is reading The Brief and Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot DiazApril 3, 2012 - 8:20pm
Can style be workshopped?
I don't think so. But it can be developed. But that is up to the writer. Style cannot, in my opinion, be taught. Like I said before when I was way tooo stoned, it is souler. Style has to be coaxed up out of the writers very core.
Of course one can imitate style. That is teachable. Style plagiarism. Mockery (which I hope all writers indulge in in abundance) is plagiarisms soul swapped sibling.
disclaimer: I have not had a softy in quite a while
Nikki Guerlain
from Portlandia is reading Necronomicon Book ThreeApril 3, 2012 - 8:24pm
What's a softy? Sounds horrible.
PandaMask
from Los Angeles is reading More Than HumanApril 3, 2012 - 8:29pm
Chester!
I just wanted to say that.
eggogallego
from Glendale, AZ is reading Bitch PlanetApril 3, 2012 - 9:11pm
I'm playing it safe. As a new member I've chosen to stick to the rating criteria when reviewing. Style probably won't factor in to my reviews until I feel more comfortable and confident in my ability to discuss another person's craft. Right now it's just all about what I like and what I don't like, what I think works and what doesn't, and being thorough about it all.
Geez, giving a suggestion without feeling like a dick is something I'm just barely getting the hang of.
PandaMask
from Los Angeles is reading More Than HumanApril 3, 2012 - 9:15pm
Nice. How is that Batman book? I've been curious about it and the Watchmen one.
Liana
from Romania and Texas is reading Naked LunchApril 3, 2012 - 9:27pm
Nikki, they are big. Too big, if you ask me.
I agree with Chester - style can be developed, but that's part of the hard work of the writer, to find that personal voice and cultivate it, practice it, refine it, etc. People in workhops can let you know if it's successful, unique, consistent, or readable, but they're not going to help you fashion your own style.
Bill Tucker
from Austin, Texas is reading Grimm's Fairy Tales (1st Edition)April 3, 2012 - 9:30pm
All this talk of reviewing had made me realize I need to get cracking in order to post my Battledome story on Friday. Got my ass handed to me in the last one and gonna get creamed in this one too! To the workshop and no sleep!
Not that it's a chore or anything. Reading new work is always time well spent!
Back to sex? Labia. And I'm out.
eggogallego
from Glendale, AZ is reading Bitch PlanetApril 3, 2012 - 9:37pm
@PandaMask
I've just started Batman but the Watchmen book was very fun. I think it was particularly great because it discussed so many different things. Philsophical views pertaining to Rorschach's attitude, Ozymandius' god complex and Dr. Manhattan's self-omniscience were all great to read about and grew your appreciation for the book. I recommend it.
The Batman one is probably going to be endless talking points on morals, morals and morals. This is fine because you can never have too much Batman cred.
PandaMask
from Los Angeles is reading More Than HumanApril 3, 2012 - 9:40pm
Batman is my favorite (super?)hero after Spiderman.
bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.April 3, 2012 - 9:42pm
It's always Batman or Spider-man.
PandaMask
from Los Angeles is reading More Than HumanApril 3, 2012 - 9:45pm
They're both great and seemed more "real" to me.
bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.April 3, 2012 - 9:52pm
I definitly read more Spider-Man than Batman, but I probably read more X-Men than Batman, too. But, Batman: Year One is the best graphic novel ever. So... Shit, I don't know. I like to throw Wolverine in there as a third. But the top spot is probably Spider-Man...
But, oh God... maybe Batman. I mean, best tv show, best cartoon, best movies, best video game... all Batman.
damn it...
Depends on the day of the week. Spider-Man or Batman.
I'm going to make a comic called Spider-Bat, starring a very dark, brooding hero who uses sarcastic quips and scowls to fight crime. He's a scientist detective photographer always broke billionaire with a dead uncle and father and mother and a cross-dressing butler named Alfred Parkerworth. Shit, I think I broke my superhero.
PandaMask
from Los Angeles is reading More Than HumanApril 3, 2012 - 9:53pm
I'd read it.
Do you read The Question?
bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.April 3, 2012 - 9:57pm
I don't know how to answer that properly. Let's see.... No, I've never read a comic called the question, but yes, I do read your question.
PandaMask
from Los Angeles is reading More Than HumanApril 3, 2012 - 10:10pm
Haha it's a hero that Rorschach was based off of.
eggogallego
from Glendale, AZ is reading Bitch PlanetApril 3, 2012 - 11:43pm
I'll have to check that one out, PandaMask.
Lovin' the character concept, howie.
You guys seem to know your stuff. Here's one my buds and I discuss/argue/rant about endlessly:
Batman v. Superman. All biases aside, who wins in a straight fight?
Grigori Black
from US is reading Radium Girls by Amanda GowinApril 4, 2012 - 12:08am
A straight fight? Superman. If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough of it. Faster, stronger, etc. Batman might (screw might, he'd come up with dozens) be able to come up with a strategy over time to take out Superman, but in a straight up brawl, at the end of the day Batman is only human.
eggogallego
from Glendale, AZ is reading Bitch PlanetApril 4, 2012 - 12:34am
I like you, Grigori.
Grigori Black
from US is reading Radium Girls by Amanda GowinApril 4, 2012 - 12:43am
@Bill
If you need to review something, I've got a piece up in the workshop. I'm always happy to have insight into an opponent's mind.
Matt Attack
from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William FaulknerApril 4, 2012 - 1:25am
FUUUUCCCCKKKKKKK, What kind of monster did I create with this thread.............
Grigori Black
from US is reading Radium Girls by Amanda GowinApril 4, 2012 - 1:35am
Back on topic:
Style is a peculiar animal. For me, it doesn't matter much whether I like it or not. I can appreciate it if the writing is consistent. I've read a ton of writing through workshops that I'd never read on my own. Some of it was really good, some of it needed work. I can't really say anything was terrible. The advantage I see to workshopping is that it removes some of the potential biases people might have. For example: younger writers are often taken less seriously. Usually, with a good crowd, that means they are also given a lot more leeway in their writing and the criticism that falls their way is more constructive.
When looking at anything submitted, I try to be as objective as possible. I tend to be overly analytical and sometimes I have to work at not being overly critical. I'll read through it 2-3 times until I get a feel for it, then I'll start breaking it down for an LBL. I'll tend to stick to shorter pieces as a result, unless something really catches my eye.
Matt Attack
from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William FaulknerApril 4, 2012 - 1:37am
FUUUUUCKKKKKKKKKK
lol
Grigori Black
from US is reading Radium Girls by Amanda GowinApril 4, 2012 - 2:54am
@Matt
WTF?
WTH?
WTFH?
DYEKWTFYTA?
Matt Attack
from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William FaulknerApril 4, 2012 - 3:24am
exactly
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedApril 4, 2012 - 4:35am
I just don't take it into account, maybe that makes me the bad guy.
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersApril 4, 2012 - 4:52am
Dwayne - being a terrible person makes you a bad guy. Not taking style into account just annoys some people.
PandaMask
from Los Angeles is reading More Than HumanApril 4, 2012 - 4:56am
Matt Attack
from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William FaulknerApril 4, 2012 - 6:06am
@Dwayne, just try and be mindful...doesn't make you a terrible person.
bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.April 4, 2012 - 11:02am
If there are any problems with reviewing, I think it has to do with people not reading the essays. Those are key for this site. It's all about the essays, esse.
PandaMask
from Los Angeles is reading More Than HumanApril 4, 2012 - 11:28am
@Howie
Agreed on both.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedApril 4, 2012 - 12:15pm
@Doll - Die nameless.
@Matt - I just try to be honest, and not give bonus points on sticking to/being better then others who use a style.
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryApril 4, 2012 - 2:12pm
i believe a writer can grow much faster if people are brutally honest to the writer about their work.
Nikki, I believe someone completely brilliant actually has a thread dedicated to this very idea. Let me look for it. Okay. Yeah. Here it is. That's some stone cold shit right there.
Style is a peculiar animal. For me, it doesn't matter much whether I like it or not. I can appreciate it if the writing is consistent.
Exactly what Grigori said. And this is one of the reasons we're here, right? This kind of interaction encourages us to branch out and at least look at fields we're not accustomed to grazing. Yes, we all have a style that is, at least somewhat, unique to us. But I'll bet most of us don't only read that one style. Anybody here only read Clancy? Or Meyer? Or Steinbeck? Probably not. I don't think the actual style issues bother people here quite as much as we might think. I just read this entire thread: I didn't see anybody say anything about how they review a certain style. And my guess is that it's because most of us here are well-read enough to roll with what is in front of us.
And finally:
It's always Batman or Spider-man.
With all due respect, sir, it has always been The Punisher.
Nikki Guerlain
from Portlandia is reading Necronomicon Book ThreeApril 4, 2012 - 2:14pm
Thx for the link Utah!
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryApril 4, 2012 - 2:17pm
Any time. I try to spread the good word.
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestApril 4, 2012 - 2:26pm
So, your left leg is 'good' and right is 'word'? I get it now...
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryApril 4, 2012 - 2:30pm
Geez, next thing I know Moon's gonna be asking me for nude pics.
Good thing I been workin out.
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestApril 4, 2012 - 2:32pm
I'll redirect them to Danny's email.
bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.April 4, 2012 - 5:20pm
With all due respect, sir, it has always been The Punisher.
Only if the question is: Which Marvel character has the coolest van?
Chester Pane
from Portland, Oregon is reading The Brief and Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot DiazApril 4, 2012 - 5:29pm
@Nikki: A softy is...nevermind. Refer to your Vicodin for further details.
@ Cris:
Nikki Guerlain
from Portlandia is reading Necronomicon Book ThreeApril 4, 2012 - 5:40pm
@chestie ooooh...that's what a softie is. i learn something new every day. thx for the softie education.
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestApril 4, 2012 - 7:13pm
@Nikki: Here's what you do: Give a guy a head full of cocaine, try to screw him and you'll know what a softie is... ;)
Nikki Guerlain
from Portlandia is reading Necronomicon Book ThreeApril 4, 2012 - 7:17pm
Oh been there done that. Nothing that a half cup of coconut oil can't fix. Pshaw!
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestApril 4, 2012 - 7:48pm
Coconut oil, huh? Where do you live? LOL! ;)
I think I know who I want to work with...
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestApril 4, 2012 - 7:52pm
I think I know who I want to work with...
- Wrong thread.
Nikki Guerlain
from Portlandia is reading Necronomicon Book ThreeApril 4, 2012 - 7:53pm
heh heh .. i hark from the bizarro lands of Portlandia Suburbia where the coconut oil flows like water in the Big Rock Candy Mountain.
@Doll: I'm shedding a tear for you, as well.
I hear you, Liana. I feel the same way a lot of the time and I always have to remind myself that I do this for the writing. I always seem to get up in this mindset that it's about personal acceptance. I know I'm a good writer, but sometimes when I get negative feedback on my work, I tend to close up for a couple days. It's part of the process, though. I have a drink and a hot bath and then I look at my story a week later and realize that the negative feedback was totally accurate and I'm glad it was said. Internal callouses take a while to form.
Also, you could make a sex joke out of that last statement.
Amen again B. Tucker.
@Nikki - Anything on a forum that isn't sexual innuendos and pictures stolen through Google images is technically DRAMA.
ohhh ... so that's it.
What's a softy? Sounds horrible.
Chester!
I just wanted to say that.
I'm playing it safe. As a new member I've chosen to stick to the rating criteria when reviewing. Style probably won't factor in to my reviews until I feel more comfortable and confident in my ability to discuss another person's craft. Right now it's just all about what I like and what I don't like, what I think works and what doesn't, and being thorough about it all.
Geez, giving a suggestion without feeling like a dick is something I'm just barely getting the hang of.
Nice. How is that Batman book? I've been curious about it and the Watchmen one.
Nikki, they are big. Too big, if you ask me.
I agree with Chester - style can be developed, but that's part of the hard work of the writer, to find that personal voice and cultivate it, practice it, refine it, etc. People in workhops can let you know if it's successful, unique, consistent, or readable, but they're not going to help you fashion your own style.
All this talk of reviewing had made me realize I need to get cracking in order to post my Battledome story on Friday. Got my ass handed to me in the last one and gonna get creamed in this one too! To the workshop and no sleep!
Not that it's a chore or anything. Reading new work is always time well spent!
Back to sex? Labia. And I'm out.
@PandaMask
I've just started Batman but the Watchmen book was very fun. I think it was particularly great because it discussed so many different things. Philsophical views pertaining to Rorschach's attitude, Ozymandius' god complex and Dr. Manhattan's self-omniscience were all great to read about and grew your appreciation for the book. I recommend it.
The Batman one is probably going to be endless talking points on morals, morals and morals. This is fine because you can never have too much Batman cred.
Batman is my favorite (super?)hero after Spiderman.
It's always Batman or Spider-man.
They're both great and seemed more "real" to me.
I definitly read more Spider-Man than Batman, but I probably read more X-Men than Batman, too. But, Batman: Year One is the best graphic novel ever. So... Shit, I don't know. I like to throw Wolverine in there as a third. But the top spot is probably Spider-Man...
But, oh God... maybe Batman. I mean, best tv show, best cartoon, best movies, best video game... all Batman.
damn it...
Depends on the day of the week. Spider-Man or Batman.
I'm going to make a comic called Spider-Bat, starring a very dark, brooding hero who uses sarcastic quips and scowls to fight crime. He's a scientist detective photographer always broke billionaire with a dead uncle and father and mother and a cross-dressing butler named Alfred Parkerworth. Shit, I think I broke my superhero.
I'd read it.
Do you read The Question?
I don't know how to answer that properly. Let's see.... No, I've never read a comic called the question, but yes, I do read your question.
Haha it's a hero that Rorschach was based off of.
I'll have to check that one out, PandaMask.
Lovin' the character concept, howie.
You guys seem to know your stuff. Here's one my buds and I discuss/argue/rant about endlessly:
Batman v. Superman. All biases aside, who wins in a straight fight?
A straight fight? Superman. If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough of it. Faster, stronger, etc. Batman might (screw might, he'd come up with dozens) be able to come up with a strategy over time to take out Superman, but in a straight up brawl, at the end of the day Batman is only human.
I like you, Grigori.
@Bill
If you need to review something, I've got a piece up in the workshop. I'm always happy to have insight into an opponent's mind.
FUUUUCCCCKKKKKKK, What kind of monster did I create with this thread.............
Back on topic:
Style is a peculiar animal. For me, it doesn't matter much whether I like it or not. I can appreciate it if the writing is consistent. I've read a ton of writing through workshops that I'd never read on my own. Some of it was really good, some of it needed work. I can't really say anything was terrible. The advantage I see to workshopping is that it removes some of the potential biases people might have. For example: younger writers are often taken less seriously. Usually, with a good crowd, that means they are also given a lot more leeway in their writing and the criticism that falls their way is more constructive.
When looking at anything submitted, I try to be as objective as possible. I tend to be overly analytical and sometimes I have to work at not being overly critical. I'll read through it 2-3 times until I get a feel for it, then I'll start breaking it down for an LBL. I'll tend to stick to shorter pieces as a result, unless something really catches my eye.
FUUUUUCKKKKKKKKKK
lol
@Matt
WTF?
WTH?
WTFH?
DYEKWTFYTA?
exactly
I just don't take it into account, maybe that makes me the bad guy.
Dwayne - being a terrible person makes you a bad guy. Not taking style into account just annoys some people.
@Dwayne, just try and be mindful...doesn't make you a terrible person.
If there are any problems with reviewing, I think it has to do with people not reading the essays. Those are key for this site. It's all about the essays, esse.
And as shown in Justice League Tower of Babel, Batman has already planned out how to defeat everyone he ever meets.
@Howie
Agreed on both.
@Doll - Die nameless.
@Matt - I just try to be honest, and not give bonus points on sticking to/being better then others who use a style.
Nikki, I believe someone completely brilliant actually has a thread dedicated to this very idea. Let me look for it. Okay. Yeah. Here it is. That's some stone cold shit right there.
Exactly what Grigori said. And this is one of the reasons we're here, right? This kind of interaction encourages us to branch out and at least look at fields we're not accustomed to grazing. Yes, we all have a style that is, at least somewhat, unique to us. But I'll bet most of us don't only read that one style. Anybody here only read Clancy? Or Meyer? Or Steinbeck? Probably not. I don't think the actual style issues bother people here quite as much as we might think. I just read this entire thread: I didn't see anybody say anything about how they review a certain style. And my guess is that it's because most of us here are well-read enough to roll with what is in front of us.
And finally:
With all due respect, sir, it has always been The Punisher.
Thx for the link Utah!
Any time. I try to spread the good word.
So, your left leg is 'good' and right is 'word'? I get it now...
Geez, next thing I know Moon's gonna be asking me for nude pics.
Good thing I been workin out.
I'll redirect them to Danny's email.
Only if the question is: Which Marvel character has the coolest van?
@Nikki: A softy is...nevermind. Refer to your Vicodin for further details.
@ Cris:
@chestie ooooh...that's what a softie is. i learn something new every day. thx for the softie education.
@Nikki: Here's what you do: Give a guy a head full of cocaine, try to screw him and you'll know what a softie is... ;)
Oh been there done that. Nothing that a half cup of coconut oil can't fix. Pshaw!
Coconut oil, huh? Where do you live? LOL! ;)
I think I know who I want to work with...
heh heh .. i hark from the bizarro lands of Portlandia Suburbia where the coconut oil flows like water in the Big Rock Candy Mountain.