R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest April 3, 2012 - 6:56pm

@Doll: I'm shedding a tear for you, as well.

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter April 3, 2012 - 6:57pm

I hear you, Liana.  I feel the same way a lot of the time and I always have to remind myself that I do this for the writing.  I always seem to get up in this mindset that it's about personal acceptance.  I know I'm a good writer, but sometimes when I get negative feedback on my work, I tend to close up for a couple days.  It's part of the process, though.  I have a drink and a hot bath and then I look at my story a week later and realize that the negative feedback was totally accurate and I'm glad it was said.  Internal callouses take a while to form.

Also, you could make a sex joke out of that last statement.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest April 3, 2012 - 6:57pm

Amen again B. Tucker.

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter April 3, 2012 - 7:01pm

@Nikki - Anything on a forum that isn't sexual innuendos and pictures stolen through Google images is technically DRAMA.

Nikki Guerlain's picture
Nikki Guerlain from Portlandia is reading Necronomicon Book Three April 3, 2012 - 7:03pm

ohhh ... so that's it.

Chester Pane's picture
Chester Pane from Portland, Oregon is reading The Brief and Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot Diaz April 3, 2012 - 7:20pm

Can style be workshopped?

 

I don't think so. But it can be developed. But that is up to the writer. Style cannot, in my opinion, be taught. Like I said before when I was way tooo stoned, it is souler. Style has to be coaxed up out of the writers very core. 

Of course one can imitate style. That is teachable. Style plagiarism. Mockery (which I hope all writers indulge in in abundance) is plagiarisms soul swapped sibling.

disclaimer: I have not had a softy in quite a while

Nikki Guerlain's picture
Nikki Guerlain from Portlandia is reading Necronomicon Book Three April 3, 2012 - 7:24pm

What's a softy? Sounds horrible.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human April 3, 2012 - 7:29pm

Chester!

I just wanted to say that.

eggogallego's picture
eggogallego from Glendale, AZ is reading Bitch Planet April 3, 2012 - 8:11pm

I'm playing it safe. As a new member I've chosen to stick to the rating criteria when reviewing. Style probably won't factor in to my reviews until I feel more comfortable and confident in my ability to discuss another person's craft. Right now it's just all about what I like and what I don't like, what I think works and what doesn't, and being thorough about it all.

Geez, giving a suggestion without feeling like a dick is something I'm just barely getting the hang of.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human April 3, 2012 - 8:15pm

Nice. How is that Batman book? I've been curious about it and the Watchmen one.

Liana's picture
Liana from Romania and Texas is reading Naked Lunch April 3, 2012 - 8:27pm

Nikki, they are big. Too big, if you ask me.

I agree with Chester - style can be developed, but that's part of the hard work of the writer, to find that personal voice and cultivate it, practice it, refine it, etc. People in workhops can let you know if it's successful, unique, consistent, or readable, but they're not going to help you fashion your own style.

Bill Tucker's picture
Bill Tucker from Austin, Texas is reading Grimm's Fairy Tales (1st Edition) April 3, 2012 - 8:30pm

All this talk of reviewing had made me realize I need to get cracking in order to post my Battledome story on Friday.  Got my ass handed to me in the last one and gonna get creamed in this one too!  To the workshop and no sleep! 

Not that it's a chore or anything.  Reading new work is always time well spent!

Back to sex?  Labia.  And I'm out.

eggogallego's picture
eggogallego from Glendale, AZ is reading Bitch Planet April 3, 2012 - 8:37pm

@PandaMask

I've just started Batman but the Watchmen book was very fun. I think it was particularly great because it discussed so many different things. Philsophical views pertaining to Rorschach's attitude, Ozymandius' god complex and Dr. Manhattan's self-omniscience were all great to read about and grew your appreciation for the book. I recommend it.

The Batman one is probably going to be endless talking points on morals, morals and morals. This is fine because you can never have too much Batman cred.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human April 3, 2012 - 8:40pm

Batman is my favorite (super?)hero after Spiderman.

bryanhowie's picture
bryanhowie from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING. April 3, 2012 - 8:42pm

It's always Batman or Spider-man.  

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human April 3, 2012 - 8:45pm

They're both great and seemed more "real" to me.

bryanhowie's picture
bryanhowie from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING. April 3, 2012 - 8:52pm

I definitly read more Spider-Man than Batman, but I probably read more X-Men than Batman, too.  But, Batman: Year One is the best graphic novel ever.  So...  Shit, I don't know.  I like to throw Wolverine in there as a third.  But the top spot is probably Spider-Man... 

But, oh God... maybe Batman.  I mean, best tv show, best cartoon, best movies, best video game... all Batman.  

damn it...

Depends on the day of the week.  Spider-Man or Batman.

I'm going to make a comic called Spider-Bat, starring a very dark, brooding hero who uses sarcastic quips and scowls to fight crime.  He's a scientist detective photographer always broke billionaire with a dead uncle and father and mother and a cross-dressing butler named Alfred Parkerworth.  Shit, I think I broke my superhero.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human April 3, 2012 - 8:53pm

I'd read it.

Do you read The Question?

bryanhowie's picture
bryanhowie from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING. April 3, 2012 - 8:57pm

I don't know how to answer that properly.  Let's see....  No, I've never read a comic called the question, but yes, I do read your question.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human April 3, 2012 - 9:10pm

Haha it's a hero that Rorschach was based off of.

 

eggogallego's picture
eggogallego from Glendale, AZ is reading Bitch Planet April 3, 2012 - 10:43pm

I'll have to check that one out, PandaMask.

Lovin' the character concept, howie.

You guys seem to know your stuff. Here's one my buds and I discuss/argue/rant about endlessly:

Batman v. Superman. All biases aside, who wins in a straight fight?

Grigori Black's picture
Grigori Black from US is reading Radium Girls by Amanda Gowin April 3, 2012 - 11:08pm

A straight fight? Superman. If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough of it. Faster, stronger, etc. Batman might (screw might, he'd come up with dozens) be able to come up with a strategy over time to take out Superman, but in a straight up brawl, at the end of the day Batman is only human.

eggogallego's picture
eggogallego from Glendale, AZ is reading Bitch Planet April 3, 2012 - 11:34pm

I like you, Grigori.

Grigori Black's picture
Grigori Black from US is reading Radium Girls by Amanda Gowin April 3, 2012 - 11:43pm

@Bill

If you need to review something, I've got a piece up in the workshop. I'm always happy to have insight into an opponent's mind.

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner April 4, 2012 - 12:25am

FUUUUCCCCKKKKKKK, What kind of monster did I create with this thread.............

Grigori Black's picture
Grigori Black from US is reading Radium Girls by Amanda Gowin April 4, 2012 - 12:35am

Back on topic:

Style is a peculiar animal. For me, it doesn't matter much whether I like it or not. I can appreciate it if the writing is consistent. I've read a ton of writing through workshops that I'd never read on my own. Some of it was really good, some of it needed work. I can't really say anything was terrible. The advantage I see to workshopping is that it removes some of the potential biases people might have. For example: younger writers are often taken less seriously. Usually, with a good crowd, that means they are also given a lot more leeway in their writing and the criticism that falls their way is more constructive.

When looking at anything submitted, I try to be as objective as possible. I tend to be overly analytical and sometimes I have to work at not being overly critical. I'll read through it 2-3 times until I get a feel for it, then I'll start breaking it down for an LBL. I'll tend to stick to shorter pieces as a result, unless something really catches my eye.

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner April 4, 2012 - 12:37am

FUUUUUCKKKKKKKKKK 

lol

Grigori Black's picture
Grigori Black from US is reading Radium Girls by Amanda Gowin April 4, 2012 - 1:54am

@Matt

 

WTF?

WTH?

WTFH?

DYEKWTFYTA?

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner April 4, 2012 - 2:24am

exactly

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated April 4, 2012 - 3:35am

I just don't take it into account, maybe that makes me the bad guy.

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters April 4, 2012 - 3:52am

Dwayne - being a terrible person makes you a bad guy.  Not taking style into account just annoys some people.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human April 4, 2012 - 3:56am

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner April 4, 2012 - 5:06am

@Dwayne, just try and be mindful...doesn't make you a terrible person. 

bryanhowie's picture
bryanhowie from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING. April 4, 2012 - 10:02am

If there are any problems with reviewing, I think it has to do with people not reading the essays.  Those are key for this site.  It's all about the essays, esse.

And as shown in Justice League Tower of Babel, Batman has already planned out how to defeat everyone he ever meets. 

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human April 4, 2012 - 10:28am

@Howie

Agreed on both.

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated April 4, 2012 - 11:15am

@Doll - Die nameless.

@Matt - I just try to be honest, and not give bonus points on sticking to/being better then others who use a style.

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry April 4, 2012 - 1:12pm

i believe a writer can grow much faster if people are brutally honest to the writer about their work.

Nikki, I believe someone completely brilliant actually has a thread dedicated to this very idea.  Let me look for it.  Okay.  Yeah.  Here it is.  That's some stone cold shit right there.

Style is a peculiar animal. For me, it doesn't matter much whether I like it or not. I can appreciate it if the writing is consistent.

Exactly what Grigori said.  And this is one of the reasons we're here, right?  This kind of interaction encourages us to branch out and at least look at fields we're not accustomed to grazing.  Yes, we all have a style that is, at least somewhat, unique to us.  But I'll bet most of us don't only read that one style.  Anybody here only read Clancy?  Or Meyer?  Or Steinbeck?  Probably not.  I don't think the actual style issues bother people here quite as much as we might think.  I just read this entire thread:  I didn't see anybody say anything about how they review a certain style.  And my guess is that it's because most of us here are well-read enough to roll with what is in front of us. 

And finally:

It's always Batman or Spider-man.

With all due respect, sir, it has always been The Punisher.

Nikki Guerlain's picture
Nikki Guerlain from Portlandia is reading Necronomicon Book Three April 4, 2012 - 1:14pm

Thx for the link Utah!

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry April 4, 2012 - 1:17pm

Any time.  I try to spread the good word.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest April 4, 2012 - 1:26pm

So, your left leg is 'good' and right is 'word'?  I get it now...

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry April 4, 2012 - 1:30pm

Geez, next thing I know Moon's gonna be asking me for nude pics.

Good thing I been workin out.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest April 4, 2012 - 1:32pm

I'll redirect them to Danny's email.

bryanhowie's picture
bryanhowie from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING. April 4, 2012 - 4:20pm

With all due respect, sir, it has always been The Punisher.

Only if the question is: Which Marvel character has the coolest van?

Chester Pane's picture
Chester Pane from Portland, Oregon is reading The Brief and Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot Diaz April 4, 2012 - 4:29pm

@Nikki: A softy is...nevermind. Refer to your Vicodin for further details.

@ Cris:

Nikki Guerlain's picture
Nikki Guerlain from Portlandia is reading Necronomicon Book Three April 4, 2012 - 4:40pm

@chestie ooooh...that's what a softie is. i learn something new every day. thx for the softie education.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest April 4, 2012 - 6:13pm

@Nikki: Here's what you do: Give a guy a head full of cocaine, try to screw him and you'll know what a softie is... ;)

Nikki Guerlain's picture
Nikki Guerlain from Portlandia is reading Necronomicon Book Three April 4, 2012 - 6:17pm

Oh been there done that. Nothing that a half cup of coconut oil can't fix. Pshaw!

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest April 4, 2012 - 6:48pm

Coconut oil, huh? Where do you live? LOL! ;) 

I think I know who I want to work with...

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest April 4, 2012 - 6:52pm

I think I know who I want to work with...

- Wrong thread.

Nikki Guerlain's picture
Nikki Guerlain from Portlandia is reading Necronomicon Book Three April 4, 2012 - 6:53pm

heh heh .. i hark from the bizarro lands of Portlandia Suburbia where the coconut oil flows like water in the Big Rock Candy Mountain.