Hello Sweetie!
Looking for like-minded Whovians who would like to discuss recent plot arcs in Doctor Who (especially with Nine, Ten, and Eleven).
Jammie Dodger anyone?
Adam
I am a huge Who fan. You get me started and I might not stop.
Me too,
My biggest gripe that might start conversation is that doctors nine and ten had a gradual story arc that showed the war hardend doctor becoming a sad old man as well as his growing love for rose where as Matt Smith feels like a completly new charatcer. I just don't see the old doctors in him.
Really? I see a lot of 10 in him, and in the last few episodes I definitely saw that dark part of 9 &10 come out, just in a slightly different way. I think he's doing a great job of owning the character although I was prepared to hate him, because I loved 10 so much.
Looking back though, I think it's easy to forget the 8 other Doctors and how absolutely different some of them were from their predecssors. I think Matt Smith captures the fancy and curiousity that makes The Doctor such a compelling character.
11 acts like classic Doctors all the time. Looney like 2, personality like 4, has said "Braveheart" like 5, calculating and plotting like 7, but not brooding like 9 and 10. I feel like Matt seems almost ancient at times.
By the way, there is a local Doctor Who Convention in Orlando next week, and Alex Kingston will be there. I am signed up for an autograph and photo-op. A dream come true.
Start hating me now.
I love her. If I am half af hot when I am her age I will be happy.
@Jeffrey - yes, and wave my nerd flag proudly... :)
@Sparrow - I will post my pic with her here next Friday. Actually, Peter Davison (Doctor 5) was supposed to be there...he bowed out at the last minute and so he was replaced by Alex. I love 5, but we all know that the only water that runs in the forest is the River.
I'm the biggest Whonerd I know. Well, biggest nerd for the past 3 doctors, if I were to be specific.
I'm such a nerd, my little Macbook Air goes by the name of Sexy!
And I'm mad jealous you'll be seeing Alex Kingston. She was awesome in Doctor Who, up until the horrendous finale to season six.
Horrendous. Finale.
I hope Moffat retires from Doctor Who soon. It's time for someone who can actually handle large arcs to take over. Moffat can handle, at most, a two-parter episode, but I have not been impressed with the last two seasons and their overall arc. But the individual episodes are very strong! I just don't dig how Moffat sticks with the painfully obvious sometimes. (most of the time, actually.) And he cheats his fans out of proper endings to each season. Especially that last one! You can't tell me you didn't feel a little let down -- no, taken advantage of. I felt like I needed to call someone after that. A help-line. The police. Something. I actually woke up in the middle of the night thinking about season six's finale, and threw a mini tantrum under the covers. But season six is the first season I actually purchased, which goes to show you I really loved the individual episodes in that season. Some of them were so good, I could rewatch them nonstop!
Also, the guy is a jerk. He picks on fans who disagree with the direction he's taking the show in the most petty ways imaginable.
I can add to my Moffat rant, but I'll give others a chance to defend him/agree with me.
Oh, but to add to the conversation at hand, I enjoy Doctor 11. I was prepared to dislike him because of my intense adoration of 9 and 10. Despite 11 seeming to have broken away from the progress 9 and 10 were making in the Doctor's life, I can rationalize why he acts the way he does. Do I wish he kept some of 10's quirks? Yes. But, so long as Moffat stops forcing 11's quirks down our throats, I enjoy Matt Smith's depiction of the eleventh Doctor and his silly ways.
It's Amy I don't really care for. Wonderful actress, fun character, but she has added absolutely nothing to the plot except to introduce Rory. All of the Doctor's companions since the start of the New Adventures have needed growing. They join the Doctor, and are changed in the end in some way. Rose learned to be assertive and confident, that she could do anything. Donna's low self esteem was taken care of, and even though she can't remember her experiences with the doctor, she remembers to be observant. Martha stopped identifying herself by her role in her family, and started to act like an individual. But Amy? Amy was strong to begin with. It was Rory that needed growing, but Amy was the main companion and she was pretty boring to me. Rory, on the other hand, has been awesome! He really saved the companion role.
I did think the finale was pretty...bleh. But I disagree about Moffat. I think he's done a great job--and while Rory takes the cake as the most amazing companion ever, I do think Amy's story is beautiful and sad. She's seeing the reality of her childhood dream, facing her perfect imaginary friend as an imperfect man who could destroy her life. She's lost everything, got it back, and lost more again.
Rory is absolutely more compelling. He's grown some serious balls and become a super hero in many ways, but 1)he couldn't or wouldn't have done so if not for Amy and 2)Amy is the first companion that's really gotten under The Doctor's skin since Rose. That in itself is a pretty important plot point.
As far as Matt Smith leaving the progress 9 & 10 made behind, yes, of course--but he was born when 10 was at his lowest, when 10 went beserk and started trying to make up for all the bad he's done and watched it blow up in his face...so we get 11 who's in a sort of whimisical denial of the whole thing, but can't manage to escape the fact that his very presence in the lives of those he loves fucks shit up. It's pretty compelling when you step out of it and think about it for awhile.
@Misskokoman No, I am the biggest Whovian you now know. I used to rush home after middle school and escaped a dysfunctional family by turning on PBS at 4pm to watch Tom Baker outwit the Daleks, Cybermen, and the Master with Sarah Jane, Leela, K-9 and Romana (I and II) every day.
The Doctor validated my existence. I wasn't a jock - but I could think my way out of sticky situations, even without the use of a trusty sonic screwdriver. He was quirky, jerky, but clever.
Moving forward, 9 was a wonderful, tortured soul. I adored Rose and fell for her almost as fast as 9 did. Father's Day was definitely the best 9 episode for me.
How could anyone not enjoy 10? He was clever, funny, charismatic, and loved Rose. He also had a dark side, but Davies' writing kept making him larger than life. The Doctor is supposed to be the cosmic Lone Ranger - popping in, saving the day, leaving onlookers in his wake, while they wondered who the masked man - or in 10's case, Converse-footed Time Lord was. Unrequited Martha never did it for me - her pining for the Doctor bored me. I enjoyed Human Nature/The Family of Blood, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, and of course Blink. Donna was a wonderful foil for him, and it pained me how he left her, taking her memories away, resetting her to "just a temp from Chiswick". I also enjoyed the Christmas episode, Voyage of the Damned, and wished that Astrid (an anagram of TARDIS) could've traveled with him. 10's death was overdone for me, it was too maudlin, but I did shed a tear with his scenes with Wilf, and when he visited Rose one last time, just before she was going to meet 9. It still chokes me up every time I watch it.
To me, 11 is phenomenal. I, too, didn't want to like him, but loved him by the end of The Eleventh Hour. When 11 walked through the images of his 10 predecessors and proclaimed, "I'm the Doctor" - I shivered and know that I must've shrieked like a good little fanboy. I agree that "Roranicus the Roman" has shown the most growth, and has set the standard for what a good boyfriend should be. How can anyone compete with a guy who protected his girlfriend for 2,000 years (excusing the fact that he killed her in the first place)? Amy has grown, and had to realize that her true love is "The Lone Centurion" and not The Doctor. Vincent and the Doctor was amazing - I wept openly during the "Starry Night" sequence and the coda with Vincent seeing his work displayed in the museum. I guessed that the Pandorica was meant for The Doctor and enjoyed the bit at the Pond's (not the Williams') wedding that TARDIS was "Something Old, Something New, Something Borrowed, Something Blue." Clever. Oh so very clever.
I'll address Moffat, Season 7, and River in another post tomorrow. You'll just have to wait until then.
Spoilers.
My favorite 9 episode was the WWII two-parter. EVERYBODY LIVES!
Yes - The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances. I didn't realize at the time that "to dance" is a metaphor to have sex. Makes all of Captain Jack's comments in the TARDIS to the Doctor and Rose very layered indeed.
And I almost forgot to mention 10's The Girl in the Fireplace. A spectactular timey-wimey story. Heartbreaking, especially when The Doctor read Reinette's letter and when we saw that the ship was named "Madame Du Pompador".
Wow. Just wow.
"Everybody lives!" I want that on a shirt. I loved those episodes! And I loved every Moffat episode during Davies' run. They were brilliant little standalone pieces that I return to time and time again.
Yes, Mr. DontBlink, you're a huge Doctor Who fan. The Doctor served the same purpose for me, when I first found myself stuck in a bout of stressful unemployment. There is something magical about watching him run -- and imagining the chance to run with him. Awesome stuff.
And I agree about Martha. If Rose was Bad Wolf and Donna was the Doctor Donna, then Martha is the Rebound. But some great episodes happened in her season -- Family of Blood, and Blink, of course. Which I'm sure your name comes from!
We seem to have a lot in common when it comes to our reasons for loving the Doctor, and how we express said love. I, too, cry every time I watch Vincent's episode. Every. Time. But one difference between us is Doctor 10's demise -- I love the last twenty minutes of that special. I love the Doctor's rant just before surrendering to his fate. A lot of fellow writers I respect, and some podcasters of the writing profession, dislike the end -- they say it was overindulgent and over the top. That all the Doctor needed was a facial expression before taking Wilf's place. But I love that he expressed how torn up inside he was over his impending end, right up to the point where he confesses he doesn't want to go. I get teary eyed just thinking about it!
I've always had a love for space and time travel. When I started forming the plot to my YA novel, I decided to go with a space/time/demension travel Scifi. When my ex found out, he decided to introduce me to an episode of Doctor Who, but I didn't sit down to watch the series until my ex earned the title of, well, ex. With tons of free time and an eagerness to ignore my current jobless and single situation, I dove into Doctor Who and ran with him.
One of my favorite Doctor Who memories is when I attended Wondercon the year season 5 was set to premiere. They showed the first episode, Matt Smith's debut. I was only into season 3 by that time, but I couldn't pass up the chance to watch it with a packed panel. I sat through two showings!
Yes, Empty Child/The Doctor Dances and The Girl In The Fireplace are unequivocally my two favorite episodes from 9 and 10. After those two it becomes a huge internal argument over which takes second place.
And I loved 10s end. I love his last words. So often with The Doctor, his death is glossed over, because HEY! He's coming back! But 10's end laid it out. Every time he regenerates, he changes. He leaves a part of him behind. He has no idea what is coming for him, or if he will even be a him when it is done. It IS a death. 10 was the only regeneration that really got deep into the heart of that. And oh, "I don't want to go"...that about sums it all up, doesn't it?
@Sparrow - But ironically Miss (Sally) Sparrow (Shipton?), Tennant asked to leave the series with Davies, fearing he would be typecast. So "I don't want to go" was a lie. He did want to go. What I loved about the end was his sacrifice for Wilf, he who knocked four times. It was so simple. We were led to believe the knocking was the Master's drumming - but it was just simple Wilf, whothe Doctor told hours before that he would be honored to have him as a dad, for whom the good Doctor risked his life. When I heard old Wilfy knock on the glass four times - I said, "Oh shit. It was Wilf ." Although he didn't want to die, he still moaned and groaned about his fate. It spoiled the soup a little for me. A selfless act is supposed to be just that, you don't bitch and moan about it. The Ood prophecy told him his time was nearing, and although he didn't want to lose his "10-ness".
In the Sarah Jane Adventures episode with 11 and Jo Grant, The Death of the Doctor, 11 tells Jo that he checked upon all of his former companions before his last regeneration. That leads us to believe that 10 visited some classic companions as well before his angst and regeneration blew up "Sexy" during the transformation. In Season 7's finale, he even called up the Brig before he was headed to Lake Silencio to meet his fate, but he was too late. Couldn't he have used the TARDIS to visit the Brigadier sooner? The look on 11's face after realizing that even his oldest friend just about killed me.
More tomorrow about Season 7, Moffat, and River.
You. Me. Handcuffs. Must it always end this way?
What Tennant wanted and what The Doctor wanted are two different things. Perhaps conflating the two is a good illustration of why Tennant wanted to leave.
Besides, I saw him in Much Ado and he was absolutely brilliant.
9 will always be my favorite...
@(Sally) Sparrow
Tennant is a great actor, no doubt.
The Doctor's small acts of kindness and help to others touch me the most. Saving the family with Donna in The Fires of Pompei (although Donna forced him to), showing mercy to the space whale in The Beast Below (realizing that the space whale WANTED to save the ship of England), even staying with The Face of Boe (Jack) during his death in Gridlock (another favorite), touched me a million times more than when he saved the world from Davros or the Master. Taking Vincent to the future to show him his legacy was a gift to a tortured soul. It was wonderful, Renee.
In this way, the Doctor teaches us that we can be like him, by helping others and showing kindness in our small, human way. We may not be able to protect the world from a Dalek invasion, but we can certainly show humility in the presence of others and realize that everyone is worth loving.
@Foxy
9 was great...brooding, manic, and inconspicuous in black leather. A PTSD survivor for sure... And he found Rose. Nothing wrong with that.
Adam
I'm a big fan of the dark, broody and tortured
What's not to love about those qualities, Foxy?
I've only just started watching. My girlfriend is a huge fan. So far, I've seen the first two seasons, but I like 9 better than 10. I liked his image and attitude. I really liked the Empty Child episodes and the chemistry with Rose.
Stay the course, Jack. 10 is wonderful. The best is yet to come.
@dontblink nothing I forgot to add one key part however. Mr. Dark, Broody and Tortured must be a badass and not whiney... dark + broody +tortured + BADASS = Awesome, dark+ broody + tortured + whiney bitch = Teen dream punk, a la Anakin Skywalker and Edward Cullen
I'm curious, Foxy. What's your definition of a badass?
I agree that Anakin and Sparkly Vampire Boy are whiny bitches. Who wouldn't?
9 is pretty BA, I like old fashioned men, they fight out their feelings, not talk about them. i don't want to hear about your feelings, just go punch something and come back to me all angry, bloody and shirtless
Got it. Like Captain America, Iron Man, and the Hulk.
I'm quite partial to Thor, but I think that is purely physical, sexual desire...he's dumb, but just so pretty
I like me some good Liam Neeson too
See, and I'm all about River Song. My God - she's smart, sexy, mysterious...what could be better? Notice that I listed smart first...It's all about the dendrites for me...
...Adam says as he tries valiantly to bring this thread back to a Doctor Who discussion...
Here's a the pic I ordered to have signed by Alex Kingston next week:
http://www.redbubble.com/people/nero749/works/7744572-find-river-song
Hello Sweetie...
The New Series had me when The Ninth uttered "Run for your life" and waggled the bomb at Rose. It just hooked my sense of whimsy and dragged me through.
At least 10 wore Converse and 11 wears "running boots"...
Best Dr. Who ever:
It's against the Doctor's way to go around meddling with his own timeline, so he never went back to see the Brig because, upon calling and finding out about his death, he then entered the timeline. Of course, this is Doctor Who, and nothing makes sense really -- there are several cases of the Doctor interfering with his own timeline. (Heck, that's why we have the Valyard, right?)
Speaking of the Valyard, (SPOILERS maybe?) I heard an ugly rumor that the Master may be in Moffat's writing future, and I have to disagree with such a choice. I mean, all signs point to the Valyard's grand return. I never saw the guy in action, but I read plenty on him and I love the concept. Moffat's Doctor (11) has done all the things that could potentially summon the Valyard's return, and yet... nothing. Nada. Just, "Oh, I think I want to bring the Master back, hmm, yes, THE MASTER, since EVERYONE LOVES HIM, despite the fact he's DIED OFFICIALLY LIKE THREE TIMES OR SOMETHING."
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I've wanted to get into Who for years and have never known where to start. And it seems impossible to find anything. I'd want to start from the beginning, but I can never seem to find a beginning to start from.
