RosieToesAmarose's picture
RosieToesAmarose from Oneida, NY September 7, 2015 - 6:52am

A few questions I have on getting started here:

1) Is there an etiquette and/or standard procedure for choosing which submissions to review?

Do you generally choose the most recent submission? Or the one with the least reviews so far? Or the one that looks most interesting to you? Or the one from the person with the most submissions? Least submissions? Is it okay to choose one from two months ago? Do you just pick whatever the fuck you want to?

2) What level of literary expertise is expected and/or tolerated in a review?

I've read the tutorial on reviewing submissions. I ask this because I come here with a background that is not literary. I was an analytical chemist and have done technical writing in that capacity, but that doesn't translate to the verbiage and critical analysis I see used as a standard here. I'm sure I'll pick it up as I go, but in the meantime I'd like to be at least moderately useful and minimally embarrassed.

3) Any advice on resources that would help me better understand and utilize the tools of critical review?

I'm talking nuts and bolts. Things many of you probably take for granted. Literary concepts that you think a toddler should know. I can comfortably converse with you about gross anatomy, pathology, myology, chemistry, cellular and molecular biology, embryology, histology, etc., but I am continually having to look up terms having to do with things like narration, plot device, and genre.

Help me feel like I suck less by giving me the means to actually suck less.

Please and thank you, RosieToes.

voodoo_em's picture
voodoo_em from England is reading All the books by Ira Levin September 7, 2015 - 8:54am

1. I say choose which ever you want/feel like/think you can help...etc. Although I wouldn't go for submissions that are too old because sometimes they have already been polished/finished/sent out, so your critique may be a little wasted. Although you could always pm the writer and ask if they still want critiques for that particular piece.

2. Don't worry about experience, every critique you do is a learning curve. The more you do the better you get, and also the better you get at self critique for your own writing. The only thing not tolerated (in my humble opinion) is trashing someone's work or practically rewriting it for them.

3. Things you could comment on:

*crutch words and repetition:  word or phrase that the author may rely on to much, or become noticeably repetitive.

*clunky sentences that don't read right.

*continuity and visuals: can you "see" what's happening in the story from how its described. 

*show me, show me!! Don't tell me what your character is doing and feeling, show me through physical reactions, gestures, and senses (taste, smell, sound etc)

*hook: how quickly does the story hook the reader

*thesis statement: the author tells you what is about to happen and then describes it. Cut the thesis statement, just show us.

*shark music: the way you know jaws is coming from the music, well words such as "suddenly" kill a surprise too. Cut them out

*dead wood: unnecessary words. Suggest removing the dead wood to make the sentences tighter.

*sentence structure: are they varied enough to be interesting. Do they read well, reflect the characters emotions or current situation? 

*Clichés: twist clichés into some unique to the story.

*point out the bits you like!!! Tell the author that this bit made you laugh or cringe or sad or whatever. If you think they wrote an awesome sentence, tell them!

*pay off: does the ending work.

*pace: how does the story flow.

I'm sure I've forgotten loads here, but I hope these helped a bit. For the best advice go read the essays starting with the ones by Craig Clevenger and Chuck Palahniuk :)

 

 

voodoo_em's picture
voodoo_em from England is reading All the books by Ira Levin September 7, 2015 - 9:04am

Forgot to say: don't just tell someone that something doesn't work, tell them why it doesn't work. Suggest how they could fix/improve it. Suggest being the key word here. Everyone has their own style and quirks, so consider suggestions that compliment their style and what they are trying to do.

Also you have locked this thread and your introduction thread to members only (see the little padlock next to it on the forum board?) So anyone on here who's not a workshop paying member can't read/comment on it. It's up to you, but I'd suggest unlocking it to get the most suggestions/help. :)

RosieToesAmarose's picture
RosieToesAmarose from Oneida, NY September 7, 2015 - 9:34am

Voodoo_em, thank you so much for your suggestions. They are helpful and reassuring. I appreciate you taking the time to outline so many useful tips for me.

Also, thanks for the note about thread privacy. I wasn't really sure what it was about, so I thought I'd err on the side of caution. I'll go unlock them both now that I realize the difference.

Thanks again! 

Thuggish's picture
Thuggish from Vegas is reading Day of the Jackal September 7, 2015 - 12:31pm

to be a bit opposite of voodoo_em (not that i disagree with what he said), don't be afraid to simply say something like "i got bored at this part" or "this didn't make sense, i'm confused" or whatever if you don't know why.

voodoo_em's picture
voodoo_em from England is reading All the books by Ira Levin September 8, 2015 - 1:51am

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound complicated. Just honest opinions are best. 

Also, voodoo_em = she 

Angel Colón's picture
Angel Colón from The Bronx now living in New Jersey is reading A Big Ol' Pile of Books September 8, 2015 - 7:18am

Be honest, offer useful insight, but most importantly: don't be a dick. Folks put a lot of effort into their writing and it takes an immense amount of raw courage to hit that little 'Submit' widget and put a piece out for others to dig into. Though, don't baby people. I'm a little harsh (which is why I don't do workshop reviews here anymore, among other reasons) but when you are harsh, do it in the service of assuring the writer that your goal is to make them a better writer, not make them feel like they are a bad writer.

Fortunately, the Litreactor community is probably one of the best to jump into for this. I've had the few odd/borderline bad experiences, but it's definitely not the norm.

Best of luck.

Brandon's picture
Brandon from KCMO is reading Made to Break September 8, 2015 - 7:31am

Yeah, to kinda piggy back off what Angel said: just try to offer an honest opinion. I think the mistake people new to this system make is they're operating under the impression that they need to find what's wrong with the piece. That's part of what we want, but only a small part. Try to give the full spectrum.

-this is what worked

-this is what didn't work

-this is what made me laugh/cry/sneer/twist uncomfortably in my chair

-this is clunky

-this read so addictively I want to boil it in a spoon and shoot it

-this could be cut/reworked/trimmed down

There's a ton you can say above and beyond what's wrong with the piece.

RosieToesAmarose's picture
RosieToesAmarose from Oneida, NY September 8, 2015 - 7:50am

Thank you everyone for the great advice. You've all been most helpful.

And I will try not to be a dick.

Thuggish's picture
Thuggish from Vegas is reading Day of the Jackal September 8, 2015 - 8:10am

Ooo, that's a really good point there, Brandon. I'll second that.

Anna Gutmann's picture
Anna Gutmann from Ohio is reading American Gods September 9, 2015 - 5:54am

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents here ... These are the same three pieces of advice I give everyone who PMs me for review advice!

1. I think it's important to not only tell a writer what needs improvement, but to also include what they did RIGHT. Positive aspects are just as important to know so one can carry that over into future projects ... not to mention it reduces the amount of frustration a writer has when leafing through a barrage of critiques. When I write my reviews, I try to alternate by bullet points, so that every other point includes something that needs improvement (along with how I think it could be resolved), and alternating points include a compliment (along with why that aspect was pulled off so effectively).

2. Try to give your review a format that makes it easy for the writer to pull out each individual critique while going through the revision process. My two favorite formats include breaking the review down by category (concept, structure, character, dialogue), or just doing bullet points where each bullet is a separate critique.

3. Be honest, and don't beat around the bush! While you shouldn't be a jerk for no reason, you should make it clear to the writer what does and doesn't work. Usually your honesty is appreciated!

RosieToesAmarose's picture
RosieToesAmarose from Oneida, NY September 9, 2015 - 6:08am

Thanks! I'm trying to implement these suggestions into my reviews, and I hope I'm doing so effectively. Reading other people's reviews has been helpful as well. I'm learning, learning, learning. Once I finally get a submission of my own under my belt, I think having the perspective of reading one from the other side of the table will help me as well.

Anna Gutmann's picture
Anna Gutmann from Ohio is reading American Gods September 9, 2015 - 9:46am

No problem! The fact that you asked for advice shows how valuable of a workshop member you already are! I'm glad you joined us here on LR and look forward to any future submissions you make :-).

RosieToesAmarose's picture
RosieToesAmarose from Oneida, NY September 9, 2015 - 10:16am

Aw shucks. :)

Thuggish's picture
Thuggish from Vegas is reading Day of the Jackal September 9, 2015 - 10:51am

Anna-

I'm intrigued. A sample of one of these reviews would be neat to see if you can post one up.

Anna Gutmann's picture
Anna Gutmann from Ohio is reading American Gods September 9, 2015 - 5:05pm

Sure thing! Life's been busy so I haven't been reviewing as much as I used to lately, but I can link to a couple examples from the workshop (may need to scroll down some to get to my review). If you're not still subscribed to it right now, let me know and I will copy/paste them either via PM or on here, or even write up some kind of example ... I just hesitate to do that outright because I don't want to step on the toes of those I reviewed (they might not want their reviews posted on the forum)!

Here is my most recent example of one of my bullet point reviews: https://litreactor.com/workshop/sub/berries-in-dirtywater-ch-1-and-2

I usually do bullet point reviews for those submissions where I have a very specific list of comments to make, and don't necessarily feel the need to comment on each star category individually. Sorry I don't have a more detailed one to link to (would have to scroll waaaaay back for that)... Reviews of Nick's work involve more abstract comments because his submissions are usually very clean, but in other bullet point reviews I've done, I can get much more detailed and specific! This format is also good when you have a crap ton of critiques and don't want them to run together all in one paragraph.

Here are two of my recent reviews that I've done by breaking down by category: https://litreactor.com/workshop/sub/spotless and https://litreactor.com/workshop/sub/rumpelstiltskin

I use this format when my thoughts are all over the place, because the category prompting helps me nail down what I want to say!

The only time I tend to deviate from these formats is when I'm reviewing rolling submissions for a novel, like Repo Kempt's current project. When you get past chapter five of pretty much any rolling submission, critiques or compliments sometimes get repetitive, and so I find it more advantageous to keep my comments short, sweet, and to the point!

And as always, where applicable, I answer all questions the writer asks in the agenda, broken down by bullet points.

If you can't tell ... I'm an organizing freak! Haha!

RosieToesAmarose's picture
RosieToesAmarose from Oneida, NY September 9, 2015 - 6:17pm

These links were incredibly helpful! I don't know that I can express my thoughts in a review with the clarity, intelligence and eloquence you do, but you've set a bar for me for sure!

The LBLs were great to see. I have some vague recollection of using the editing feature (or whatever it's proper name is) in Word ages ago when I was reviewing analytical testing SOPs, so it's probably just a matter of clicking around until I find it again and refamiliarizing myself with it. I was going to ask how you addressed simple grammar suggestions, and your LBLs covered that for me as well.

Thank you thank you thank you. :)

Anna Gutmann's picture
Anna Gutmann from Ohio is reading American Gods September 9, 2015 - 6:46pm

No problem :-). Don't worry at all about being new to reviewing. Advice from differing perspectives is key to refining any story!

Brandon's picture
Brandon from KCMO is reading Made to Break September 10, 2015 - 7:15am

@Anna

Fuck...look at you making that points leaderboard your bitch. That's impressive as hell.

Anna Gutmann's picture
Anna Gutmann from Ohio is reading American Gods September 10, 2015 - 2:29pm

@Brandon haha thanks! I had to at least try for it ... :-D