L.W. Flouisa's picture
L.W. Flouisa from Tennessee is reading More Murakami October 2, 2014 - 3:32pm

It occured to me one of the big problem with my work is characters just sort of seem to be there chilling out mainly as plot devices rather than as character devices.

By this, I mean if my characters went to a ruins, there is not a reason for them to be there other than "I want to steal this shiny orb thing." Then I would throw in a ruins guardian, have the messenger attack them. Then the real plot really starts when I take them to another world.

But if it weren't for the shiny orb thing, there is really no other real reason the MC is there. Like there mother didn't happen to just be driving there on an errend or anything. They are just sort of there, because hey "let's go to a ruins".

Is there any way to solve this problem without replotting? I had a slightly more coherent reason in my first novella, where the set up was a reason they would be there anyway, even if the plot turns and pinch points didn't end up happening.

I'm not really sure what you would call this error.

Kacie Cunningham's picture
Kacie Cunningham from Indiana is reading too much to keep this updated October 2, 2014 - 4:05pm

Do they go to a ruin and then see the shiny orb and decide to steal it, or do they go to the ruin with the full intention of stealing it?

L.W. Flouisa's picture
L.W. Flouisa from Tennessee is reading More Murakami October 2, 2014 - 6:08pm

It's more like the story starts at the ruins, then "Ohhh, a shiny orb." They didn't set out of, just something the plot decided once they were there.

I didn't seem to have this problem while plotting the previous novella. I did a whole bunch of research on the Dutch Eastern Fire before writing, and had the characters family plan a special trip that was sort of like a cultural expectation thing -- if you didn't the crops with wither and die. That was the one I felt like passing out for a week afterword. (Turns out it was two books.)

From my understand in plotting: A thief steals things, thus a thief travel to a street vendor to steal an apple, and the guardian of the apple take them to nevermore. Then I would think about this as my middle.

Not sure what I'm going to try when i actually get to writing. (Revising my first short story at the moment.)

Kacie Cunningham's picture
Kacie Cunningham from Indiana is reading too much to keep this updated October 2, 2014 - 7:22pm

Well if they're at the ruins and then see the orb, anything could have taken them there. I went to ruins in England just on a whim. 

I know what you mean about  the plot deciding something, though for me, it is usually the characters deciding. Like I found out today that one of my protaganists husbands had had an affair. It explained a lot, actually. I write character-driven stories, not plot-based ones, so I suspect there are vast differences between the two. A character should never be a plot device, yet every character should always keep the plot moving forward. 

L.W. Flouisa's picture
L.W. Flouisa from Tennessee is reading More Murakami October 2, 2014 - 9:02pm

Yea I think that's the issue, maybe I'm wanting to do character-driven.

Like I want the character to be there for some other reason, and have the plot point be almost the complication of the reason they are already there.

I'm trying to get into the "character is the plot" mentality I used to have. Where I completely fleshed out a character, then have them tell me where to go. it makes character-driven technology so much easier to handle later on.

Printed myself off a worksheet of logical plot evolutions. For example, a vandal breaks things becomes:

  • A vandal travels to their neighbors to break a sign. Which becomes,
  • A vandal breaks down the sign, and is pursued by angry neighbors who are actually cannibals. (As an example of a random plot I made up.)

So in a sense, my work is character class-driven in a modern context. You could give a far out fantasy setting, but it's still a Thief steals things.

Kacie Cunningham's picture
Kacie Cunningham from Indiana is reading too much to keep this updated October 3, 2014 - 8:42am

That's got to be the simplest plotting device I've ever seen. Bravo. 

Gordon Highland's picture
Gordon Highland from Kansas City is reading Secondhand Souls by Christopher Moore October 3, 2014 - 11:26am

This won't help you here, but all my plots come from their characters, typically derived from facing whatever that type of person's biggest fear or weakness might be. I mean, that's the seed, but then I'll develop it so it's not just about that, being merely one element of a more tangled web I can weave. I don't flesh out an entire character just because I find them fascinating and then find a plot for them to conquer; I keep it high-concept at first, maybe defined by their career or societal function, identify their dilemma or antagonist, then give them personality. Like a musician struck deaf who then has to X, or a gay football player who's outed and then fights to X, or a security guard who gets infiltrated only to X. The supporting characters are nearly all functions of plot, however. Each is either an obstacle or enabler to the protag. Again, you develop them so they don't seem so utilitarian, but it's ultimately their role to be so. This helps keep scenes more relevant and escalating, and means less to cut later so people aren't just hanging around. Everyone has goals and motivations, even if they aren't immediately known to the reader.

L.W. Flouisa's picture
L.W. Flouisa from Tennessee is reading More Murakami October 3, 2014 - 12:24pm

I also found something else to. Often I might look at a character like a Paraplegic Juggler. Well why would he be juggling if he's a paraplegic? Oh, he became a paraplegic. There you go, finding something contradictory and finding a character arc.

Gordon Highland's picture
Gordon Highland from Kansas City is reading Secondhand Souls by Christopher Moore October 3, 2014 - 1:33pm

Right? It's the most obvious line to draw, taking away their strength (and because it's obvious, we gotta dress it up). Author is stricken with writer's block at a remote hotel. Lawyer is under a spell in which he cannot tell a lie. Superhero must give up powers to be with the woman he loves, then watches her beloved planet get attacked. Time-traveler runs out of fuel in the past, and his pre-familial interactions might unmake his own existence. A dullard finally has a meaningful relationship with a girl, only to learn she's had all memories of him erased from her brain.

L.W. Flouisa's picture
L.W. Flouisa from Tennessee is reading More Murakami October 3, 2014 - 11:06pm

I'm not sure the key I found will work for future stories.

Now I know what they were lacking.

And all those sounds awesome.

Edit: It's obviously an imperfect system, you still need character negative traits that would kick the plot into motion. Such as the thief example above.

bryanhowie's picture
bryanhowie from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING. October 11, 2014 - 7:36am

One thing to consider as you continue to write is to start giving reasons in dialogue.  Dialogue gives backstory without having to put your reader through the set-up.  Consider it a type of in media res and just start with them entering the cave or whatever, and then just keep going with the plot and dropping hints as to why they are after this orb or exploring the ruins

Number 1 rule is: WRITE.

Keep going.  If a good plot reason doesn't occur by the time you're done with the story, then you can always stick it in later (your beta readers will find the reason for you if you ask - it's amazing how much a good reader can pick up on that the author didn't notice that they wrote - little phrases that you put in there might be a trigger for a deeper plot than you thought of at the time).

Yes, you need a reason for them to go in the ruins.  No, you don't have to have it right now.  

L.W. Flouisa's picture
L.W. Flouisa from Tennessee is reading More Murakami October 11, 2014 - 8:57pm

I think I might put it down for a bit, and work on some flash fiction again. I haven't done it in a while, and now feels about like the roman machine gun in the middle ages, with a dark ages priest wondering what the hell he's looking at.

But did get Now With Mayonnaise done.

L.W. Flouisa's picture
L.W. Flouisa from Tennessee is reading More Murakami October 13, 2014 - 4:56pm

I think I decided on a first person/second person cross-over. I know it might not be to everyones taste, but at some point I need to draw a line and just try to finish something. It always ends up short anyway. I don't find fifty thousand approachable at this point. Maybe ten thousand, maybe.