New Fantastic Four Cast Revealed. The Human Torch Is Black. Cue The Outrage In 3... 2... 1...

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The Fantastic Four, Comics, Film, News

The Fantastic Four is getting a movie reboot with a shiny new cast. And here's the team:

  • Miles Teller as Mister Fantastic
  • Kate Mara as The Invisible Woman
  • Jamie Bell as The Thing
  • Michael B. Jordan as The Human Torch

Yup. Johnny Storm, a.k.a. The Human Torch, a white character in the comics, is being played by a black dude. 

The Fantastic Four previously appeared in a pair of crappy movies that came out in 2005 and 2007. They also appeared in a 1994 film produced by Roger Corman, though that never got a formal release.

The reboot is scheduled for 2015, under the direction of Josh Trank (Chronicle).

MY OPINION: Score one for diversity! Whether The Human Torch is black or white makes no real difference. Yes, he and Sue Storm are siblings. It's important to the characters' history that they're siblings. It's not important that they're biologically related.

Anyway, in a movie where one guy is on fire, one guy is made out of rock, one guy can stretch his limbs, and a woman can become invisible... I think they'll figure out a way to suspend disbelief on that one. Adoption, probably. 

This is something the internet—and the comic book community in particular—generally loses its shit over. But a cursory glance on Twitter (search term: "black Human Torch") shows opinions across the board, and while some people are clearly confused and upset, nothing jumped out at me as completely crazypants.

Honestly, I'm most thrown by the casting of Jamie Bell as The Thing. The first two Fantastic Four movies may not have been perfect—actually, they were really, incredibly bad—but the casting of Michael Chiklis was spot on. END MY OPINION.

So. Casting thoughts? Go.

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Comments

Anthony Boone's picture
Anthony Boone February 20, 2014 - 1:28pm

Very well. When Black Pather or Black Lightning are played by white guys, I don't want to hear any "complaining" either.

Rob's picture
Class Director
Rob from New York City is reading at a fast enough pace it would be cumbersome to update this February 20, 2014 - 1:36pm

Black Panter is the leader of an African nation, and Black Lightning's outlook and history is tied to his racial identity.

Johnny Storm's race is not tied to his history, other than his relation to his sister, which is easily explained away through adoption. 

C'mon. You need to do a little better than that. 

Angel Colón's picture
Angel Colón from The Bronx now living in New Jersey is reading A Big Ol' Pile of Books February 20, 2014 - 1:42pm

The guy can act, so more power to him. My immediate concern is Fox, who have a track record of churning out hot garbage no matter how well/terribly casted the super hero movie is.

As for T'Challa, well, Black Panther is African. His race is absolutely crucial to his character as he is a prince of a scientifically advanced nation of Africans that goes back hundreds of years and was not colonized by Europe. You cannot race bend that and I suspect that's one of the reasons Marvel's been lead-footed about bringing that bad ass on screen (a mistake - the dude's Batman/Reed Richards/Captain America combined).

I don't remember Johnny Storm needing to be anything but on fire and funny. Also, girl-crazy.

As for Black Lightning; sure, switch races and call him Lightning or Vulcan. Who gives a damn?

Ray Richards's picture
Ray Richards from Michigan and Iowa is reading The Great Shark Hunt by Hunter S. Thompson February 20, 2014 - 1:52pm

Why the hell is it a reboot? I was bored once already, make a movie that is fun. Lets kill off the first cast and get the Black Panther in there.

Fox needs to give thses propperties back to marvel. So, we can see some good movies.

Rob's picture
Class Director
Rob from New York City is reading at a fast enough pace it would be cumbersome to update this February 20, 2014 - 1:57pm

Jordan's casting as the Torch makes me a little interested, but it's so hard to drum up interest in the properties Marvel doesn't have direct control over. They all feel a little weird and goofy. I am losing my shit over the Guardians of the Galaxy trailer. This? Meh. 

Angel Colón's picture
Angel Colón from The Bronx now living in New Jersey is reading A Big Ol' Pile of Books February 20, 2014 - 2:05pm

Seriously. Guardians is going to rock. Rocket Raccoon!

Werus's picture
Werus from Portland, OR is reading Secret Acension February 20, 2014 - 2:35pm
JEFFREY GRANT BARR's picture
JEFFREY GRANT BARR from Central OR is reading Nothing but fucking Shakespeare, for the rest of my life February 20, 2014 - 2:49pm

PLRRRZ PUT THE BULLET POINTS IN ORDER OF THE PICTURES PLRRRZ!!!!

It is doing my head in.

I'm astounded that casting a black actor would elicit even a raised eyebrow. It's 2014 for christ's sake.

Rob's picture
Class Director
Rob from New York City is reading at a fast enough pace it would be cumbersome to update this February 20, 2014 - 2:53pm

I thought of that after I posted the article and then didn't want to have to Photoshop the damn thing again. Sorry about that. Which I'm now realizing is ridiuculous because I could have reordered the bullet points. Blergh. It's been a long day. 

And, hey, what can you do? People are weird. The important thing to focus on is the amount of people who are saying this is awesome. There seem to be less people complaining than I would have assumed. 

JEFFREY GRANT BARR's picture
JEFFREY GRANT BARR from Central OR is reading Nothing but fucking Shakespeare, for the rest of my life February 20, 2014 - 5:08pm

I guess I will just avert my eyes from the bullet points, then, rather than plucking them out of my head with swizzle sticks.

I still want to see the litmus test of Donald Glover as Spider-Man. That will be quite a day, and hopefully there willl be a lot of head explosions a la Scanners.

Now, for real though, why can't we get a proper actor to play the Invisible Woman? You know, a dude! Sure, the name is Invisible Woman, but she's invisible, so no big deal! Chicks can't *really* comix, everyone knows that.

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like February 20, 2014 - 10:55pm

My level of outrage is matched only by my level of excitement for this film

and by 0.

Benjamin Joseph's picture
Benjamin Joseph from Southern U.S. is reading Knockemstiff February 20, 2014 - 11:32pm

The Fantastic Four have been one of the most doomed MArvel franchises in terms of movie quality. People are worried about a black cast member? How about worry about a BLAND cast member?

Seriously, who cares? If I was a Fantastic Four fan then I'd be more concerned about them not making a shit movie, rather than the casting choices.

I mean, I Am Legend cast Will Smith in a white role, and while that movie kind of sucked (or at the very least shat on its own potential), it wasn't because Neville was played by a black guy.

Besides, I've never asked ANYONE who their favorite superhero was and got the answer: The Human Torch.

James Hubbs's picture
James Hubbs February 21, 2014 - 1:07am

What's more troublesome about the casting is that the Fantastic Four are astronauts. And they're casting these teenagers. It's laughable.

ReneeAPickup's picture
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck Wendig February 21, 2014 - 1:20am

Besides, I've never asked ANYONE who their favorite superhero was and got the answer: The Human Torch.

 

 

Well... you're not wrong! Hahaha.

david95's picture
david95 February 21, 2014 - 6:56am

"Black Panter is the leader of an African nation, and Black Lightning's outlook and history is tied to his racial identity.

Johnny Storm's race is not tied to his history, other than his relation to his sister, which is easily explained away through adoption.

C'mon. You need to do a little better than that."

 

History? There is NO history. It's science fiction, make believe. Nothing is TIED to anything. Even in the last FF movie they colored Sue eyes blue and hair blonde just to match with her brother Johnny. The entire series paid very close attention to this fact, that they are brother/sister. 

So yes, IF this is history, then Johnny is tied to history. NOT a race history, but a "brother/sister" history. He is Sue's brother. Not anymore.

 

So in reality, this is NOT Fantastic Four. It's 4 other guys with similar powers with the same name. If you want to go to work, make money, then pay that money to see 4 people act like 4 other people in a movie with the same name, then go for it. I won't.

C'Mon. You can do alot better than that.

 

remember, it's science fiction. Black panter started black, but Galactus scared him white and so the new movie he will be white. Nothing in history is changed. The is the present timeline. You can do ANYTHING in science fiction. Even rewrite history if you so desired. Just ask JJ about Star Trek.

david95's picture
david95 February 21, 2014 - 6:52am

"What's more troublesome about the casting is that the Fantastic Four are astronauts. And they're casting these teenagers. It's laughable."

 

Read the comic book. They look exactly like teenagers.

david95's picture
david95 February 21, 2014 - 8:11am

"Relevant article:

http://www.badazzmofo.com/2014/02/20/why-an-african-american-human-torch...

 

I cannot speak for others, only myself. This article, in my case is irrelevent. As I could completely understand and happily accept if Johnny and Sue were black. So HALF the fantastic four is black. I have no problem with that. But why are people forcing the assumptin that "race" is the issue, and not "logic". In where it was very important to the series that Johnny and Sue are siblings with the same parents. Why not remake Star Wars and make Luke black and Lea White? heck, remake the champ, where the boxing father is black and the son is white? Race is NOT the issue here. The only issue is the family tie bewtten two people which now has no logic.

 

Again I don't care is Johnny AND Sue are:

 

Black

Latino

Asian

Russian

German Shepards

or Martian.

 

As long as they are blood related siblings.

 

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated February 21, 2014 - 7:51am

@David

Read the comic book. They look exactly like teenagers.

I did, and you are what we like to call 'wrong'.  Unless you think wrinkled men, professors going gray in the temples, and ladies dating professors going gray in the temples are what teenagers look like.  I guess you could argue that Johnny Storm looks like a teenager and is the younger brother of Susan, but yeah whatever.  The link is to panels from issue #1 of the original series.

http://www.comicartville.com/originffpg2.jpg

Rob's picture
Class Director
Rob from New York City is reading at a fast enough pace it would be cumbersome to update this February 21, 2014 - 7:55am

david95—you are exactly right when you say that "You can do ANYTHING in science fiction." You can even make The Human Torch black. 

And, Benjamin: 

Besides, I've never asked ANYONE who their favorite superhero was and got the answer: The Human Torch.

Bravo. 

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated February 21, 2014 - 7:58am

It isn't just changing race that upsets comic fans.  Punisher in the 1989 film was just as white as in the comic, but they added a bunch of meditation stuff with him showing his butt in a sewer from no reason and it was pretty bad.

I understand the logic of 'yay diversity', but to me this makes about as much sense as casting me as MLK Jr. Rebooting with a new race/id/gender/whatever is most common among groups who don't seem to respect or understand the original material well enough to tell good stories with it.  They don't seem to be changing it because they think 'when this character was created in the 1960's social pressure prevented most diversity', but they think 'will this get us some buzz?'

With the exception of Nick Fury being black in the Ultimates (and the character later in the Marvel movies along with the Norse gods) the material that comes out is just horrible, or would have been better if they hadn't messed with race. The Daredevil film was horrible, the new Ultimate Spider-Man (also observable in the Doc Oc Spider-Man and Ben Riely/Scarlet Spider/why did this have to happen) is mediocre on a good issue, and the white washing of Kahn in the Star Trek reboot was super weird because why in the name of all that is good in story would you not take the one chance to cast someone of south Asian decent as a ubermensch? How often do you see that?

And in FF the casting just seems like someone lost a bet keeping the tradition of race change followed by bad media intact.  They don't seem like they are old enough to be in space, or a like someone who can talk about clobberin' and make it work.  The list goes on.

All that aside, it seems like this stuff distracts from the best scenes black comic characters ever had on page getting made into a movie or series.  Black Panther turning down the Illiminati when they offered him a power that would give him a huge amount of power because he thought it was wrong isn't getting made even thought it is some of the best stuff of the stuff on page in the last 10 years, and I think this part of why.

I'm not saying there aren't neat writers who'd want to do this, but it seems like the odds on favorite person/group to race bend are people doing bad work.

Joshua Chaplinsky's picture
Joshua Chaplinsky from New York is reading a lot more during the quarantine February 21, 2014 - 7:59am

None of this is relevant to my interests.

DrM's picture
DrM from London, England is reading A Farewell To Arms by Ernest Hemingway February 21, 2014 - 8:04am

I really don't care either way if the human torch is black or white (let's be honest, when he isn't on fire, who cares, when he is on fire, he's red and yellow and blue and... well you get the picture). That being said, I can understand why fans get irked when a character they've loved for years suddenly changes race. The same reaction would happen if superman suddenly started falling for Liam Lane instead of Lois Lane, or if Wolverine was re-cast as a woman (insert joke about women and never aging - maybe something to do with l'oreal, I don't know). It's not that being black or gay or a woman are particularly terrible, horrible things, it's just that when a studio like Fox does these things, it doesn't come across as a campaign for equality, or a moral message to kids that it doesn't matter what skin colour you are (let's face it, Fox is still a pretty heavy supporter of the "go white people go" camp), it just seems like an obvious marketing ploy to push up numbers on what will (as the fantastic four always has been), a boring, hackneyed film, none of which will remain with you beyond the car drive home from the cinema. 

If you grew up loving these comic books and waiting for these films your whole life, aside from needing better reading material, this news is just more reassurance that probably, this big budget film is going to be hounded by producers and will lead to a big pile of whatever on the silver screen.

But hey maybe I'm wrong. I hope so, I (inexplicably) still enjoy superhero movies (and now I'm thinking a gay black female superman would definitely be a film I would watch). 

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated February 21, 2014 - 8:05am

@Josh - If you find a short cut that lets you avoid something you dislike in film or comics, it might be.

Rob's picture
Class Director
Rob from New York City is reading at a fast enough pace it would be cumbersome to update this February 21, 2014 - 8:06am

Dwayne--saying this makes as much sense as casting you as MLK is a huge false equivalence. MLK was a civil rights leader whose identity and actions are tied to his race. Johnny Storm is a hotheaded guy who liked chicks and occassionally catches on fire. What about being white or black intrinsically changes that? 

I'm assuming now, but I'm guessing that the casting is less about buzz, and more because Trank has worked with Jordan before, and Jordan is a strong actor who can play that kind of character. Anyway, the history of the Fantastic Four isn't so sacred, is it? It could stand to be updated and modernized a little.

This indicates to me that they're taking a risk, and hoping it pays off with a good movie. But I'm an optimist when it comes to comic books movies. Doesn't matter how many Green Lanterns and Man of Steels and Dark Knight Rises and Amazing Spider-mans I'm subjected to.  

david95's picture
david95 February 21, 2014 - 8:38am

"I did, and you are what we like to call 'wrong'."

 

Since I own all the comic books, and can see them for myself every day. I see no reason to even read this incorrect statement any further.

The Grey in Reids hair came AFTER he mutated. So that does NOT count. I saw no wrinkles.

Again, I said they look like it. And to me they still do. Maybe not to a teenager. I'm 48 years old.

I will admit, Reed is the only one that does look like a possible adult. But the rest look like teenagers "to me".

PS. I looked at them again. They do look a little older than I orignially thought. Maybe 18? :) They still LOOK LIKE teenagers to me. But what can I saw, they are drawn with a crayon.

 

BTW. Nobody is ever wrong when stating there opinon about what something looks like to them. If you tell me a Poodle looks like a St Bernard to you. I would be incorrect to call you wrong. I would be correct in saying they don't look the same to me. That's how you should have started your post. By saying they didn't to YOU. Saying i am wrong is saying i don't know what I think. Which makes it a fact, that you are wrong to know what I think.

david95's picture
david95 February 21, 2014 - 8:17am

"david95—you are exactly right when you say that "You can do ANYTHING in science fiction." You can even make The Human Torch black."

 

Exaclty. Just as you can make the Black Panter Japanese. And it's up to us to decide whether we want to pay our hard earned money to see them or not.

 

I mean nobody realized that the Silver Surfer fell for the Things "white" girlfriend in the comic, and not Sue. The movie, the thing has a black girlfriend. But that really didn't affect the storyline too much. So no big deal. IF race was an issue, everyone would have been screaming about this. I think this proves it is not SOLELY about race.

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated February 21, 2014 - 8:26am

A little updating, sure.  And I hope this is an exception to change race/make it worse correlation, and Jordan is the only one here who I can see getting the personality of his character nailed.

I don't think they are equivalent in the sense of how offensive it would be, but in terms of logic. Assuming the comics aren't portraying a universe with zero/near zero racism (which might be neat, but is a dramatic departure from Marvel and the FF), it doesn't jive with America.  I feel safe saying that, although it is unfortunate it is true that blacks are more likely to go to jail than white.  Johnny Storm is so used to getting away with stuff that he helps steal a space shuttle. Plus the white sister when from what I can gather interracial adoption is still very rare between white parents (assuming Susan Storm is a biological child of the parents) or black parents (assuming that Johnny Storm is a biological child of the parents).

 

Rob's picture
Class Director
Rob from New York City is reading at a fast enough pace it would be cumbersome to update this February 21, 2014 - 8:36am

I think it's entirely possible and feasible to explain that Kate Mara and Michael B. Jordan are brother and sister through adoption. If the writers write it and the actors sell it, that's all that matters to the story. 

Just because interracial adoption may not be hugely common (US Census in 2000 shows that "of the 1.7 million households with adopted children, about 308,000 (18 percent) contained members of different race".), doesn't mean it won't work from a storytelling standpoint. 

Especially in a universe where a dude is made of rocks.

I'd be curious to see what mixed race foster kids think of this. I feel a lot of them might bristle at the subtext of this arguement--and I'm not accusing you of this--but on a wider scale, it seems a lot of people are saying that Johnny and Sue Storm have a strong bond, and adopted siblings can't have that. 

Angel Colón's picture
Angel Colón from The Bronx now living in New Jersey is reading A Big Ol' Pile of Books February 21, 2014 - 8:38am

@David

I'm mixed race. Irish/Italian/Puerto Rican. I'm the whitest person on my mother's side and the darkest person on my father's side. There's an entire spectrum in my family going from dark skinned all the way to "keep out of the sun" gingers.

In saying that siblings can't be appear to be two different races, are you then saying that an interracial relationship is somehow illogical?

Take a look at South American and Caribbean countries. Families are friggin rainbows out in those places. Hell, walk on to any military base and you'll see Mia Farrow's wet dream. One of my best friends growing up was Black and Japanese while his sister was slightly tan. Guess they were illogical.

Even if you're "white" or "black". There are a myriad of genes from all over the world in your blueprint. An average African American could have Kenyan, South African and, by proxy, German or Spanish roots. At some point, they may have a little blue eyed baby and have not a single clue why. Inversely, an Italian family in the Calabria region can very logically have a son with very thick and hard to manage hair.

 

 

 

 

Angel Colón's picture
Angel Colón from The Bronx now living in New Jersey is reading A Big Ol' Pile of Books February 21, 2014 - 8:40am

@ Rob

As for adopted siblings. I know quite a few that are mixed race with a bond so deep THEY LOOK LIKE EACH OTHER.

Seriously, a buddy of mine is 100% Chilean and his brother is Jewish. They have the same damn smile and almost the same voice. You would never guess the former was adopted.

david95's picture
david95 February 21, 2014 - 9:51am

Exaplin to who? Me? How can you explain to me that Luke and Lea are adopted? When I already know they aren't? Just because they can do it, doesn't remove this knowledge from my mind. Even in the first Fantastic Four movie a few years ago, I read that they made Alba's eyes blue and colored her hair blond "solely" for the purpose of making her look like Johnny's sibling. What matters to the story, is what the watcher gets from it.

I won't comment on interracial adoptions since I see it has nothing to do with the topic at hand, at least the way I speak of it. Race is irrelevent.

If both were black, there would be no problem. Which elimiates race as an issue.

I have read many other sites. I cannot state whether they are telling the truth or not. But I see many people claiming to be black and still disagree with Johnny being black and Sue being white. This is obviously NOT a racial issue.

 

david95's picture
david95 February 21, 2014 - 8:59am

"@David

I'm mixed race. Irish/Italian/Puerto Rican. I'm the whitest person on my mother's side and the darkest person on my father's side. There's an entire spectrum in my family going from dark skinned all the way to "keep out of the sun" gingers."

let's start at my beginning. As you can see, my name is David. my father's parents came from Odessa Russia. My mother's line goes all the way back to the revolutionary war, with my 5x (I think 5x maybe 6 or 7x) grandmother is 100% cherokee Indian. So I have jewish, Russian, Indian, and my mon thinks Irish too. from before the Revolutionary war.

None of this is relevent. You would still know by looking at me that Magic Johnson is NOT my blood related brother with the same mother and father. And this is no criticizm what-so-ever on Magic Johnson.

You send me ONE link with a picture of a brother and sister a year apart with the same mother and father that looks as different as these two. Then I will apologize, shut my mouth and pay to go see the movie when it comes out.

Angel Colón's picture
Angel Colón from The Bronx now living in New Jersey is reading A Big Ol' Pile of Books February 21, 2014 - 9:00am

Wait so race is not an issue, but if they were both black, race would no longer be an issue?

Mixed messages, man.

Also, since interracial adoption is sort of one of the two options (the other being that whole "icky" interracial lovin') to explain this kinship, yeah, it's pretty damn relevant. You ignore it because it shits all over your argument.

End of the day, it really doesn't matter. The movie's happening whether you like it or not and you can vote with your wallet. Michael B. Jordan still gets paid to pretend to be Kate Mara's brother and she gets paid to pretend to be his sister.

I'm sure they're both struggling with the logistics of it all.

david95's picture
david95 February 21, 2014 - 9:10am

"Wait so race is not an issue, but if they were both black, race would no longer be an issue?

Mixed messages, man."

 

No, not at all. What if Sue was a dog and Johnny was white?

 

What is Sue was a martian, and johnny was white?

What if sue was a robot (android) and Johnny was black?

What if sue was japanses and Johnny was australian?

The race is irrelevent, the fact that they are different races and blood related siblings are.

If you can show me one bit of evidence of ONE race woman who is a direct sibling of another race person. I will concede that Magic Johsnon could vey well be my real brother.

 

Nothing mixed in this message. Even though you may read something mixed into it.

 

My issue has nothing do whether it's being made or not. The issue is whether I am going to spend my hard earned money to go watch it or not. I really think that is THEIR MIAN issue to, don't you think? Do you really think it would be there intention to make a movie that they didn't think people would go watch? They just "think" the people will. We'll have to wait and see.

 

I'm not even going to respond to interraciall adoptions, as this is not pertinent to my topic. That is a different topic and a race topic. I have no problem with it, and am not racists. I only stick with ths topic. And the topic is the sibling relationship between Johnny and Sue. That's it. I won't let someone drag more into it than that.

Angel Colón's picture
Angel Colón from The Bronx now living in New Jersey is reading A Big Ol' Pile of Books February 21, 2014 - 9:10am

Here

Here

Here

Google's a wizard.

Also, of course Jordan and Mara don't look alike, they're actors. What kind of argument is that? How often do casted siblings look alike?

 

 

 

david95's picture
david95 February 21, 2014 - 10:10am

All those links are irrelevent. They say nothing about the "storyline". There isn't even any comparison to the topic of the movie and those links what-so-ever. Again, this topic is not about my opinon on interracial families.

I don't go to a movie because of any actor, I only go to movies because of story lines. The actors not looking the same are irrelevent. The characters in the storyline is irrelevent. Many movies I choose to go to have actors I never even heard of, because again, I go for the storyline, not actor.

Did anyone go to see the first Harry Poter movie because Daniel Radcliffe starred in it. Or Lord of the Rings because Elijah Wood was in it? Nobody even heard of these actors but still went. Why? Because of the story line.

I really like Will Smith. And I really like Jet li. But if you ask both of them if they should be in a movie where there are blood realted siblings they both would laugh in your face.

I had no problem with Will Smith being a black James West. As Gordan was not his brother. Though I do find it humorous that our lead CIA agent in Civil war times was black, but I think he did an awesome job.

 

Do you think Wil Smith would have an issue playing the role of Luke Skywalker, Lea's sister? For the money he probably would do it. but I am sure he would have a big laugh about it too.

Angel Colón's picture
Angel Colón from The Bronx now living in New Jersey is reading A Big Ol' Pile of Books February 21, 2014 - 10:06am

At this point, you're trolling or you have a head injury.

Considering you joined the site to only discuss this story, I think it's both.

Here's hoping you recover and maybe your world gets a little less narrow.

Be easy.

david95's picture
david95 February 21, 2014 - 10:40am

At this point you have no clue how to respond so decided to work on your immature and childish name calling.

Hope you grow up one day and can learn to discuss topics maturely. And "stick" with topics and not bring social issues that are irrelevent into them.

It's not easy, but I think you can do it, some day in the future.

Posting links about interracial (half and adopted) families into a thread about a fictional movie is about as immature as one can get.

You are the one "hung up" on the race issue. Not me. I'm only hung up on the storyline of siblings.

BTW. "Responding" to people who respond to my comments, is in no way even close to be considered trolling.

Bradley Sands's picture
Bradley Sands from Boston is reading Greil Marcus's The History of Rock 'N' Roll in Ten Songs February 21, 2014 - 10:19am

It's really odd how weird this seems to me considering they're supposed to be related to each other biologically. I'm a big fan of Fantastic Four (and have almost read every issue in the original run with Stan Lee and Jack Kirby). Assuming one of the characters is adopted in the movie, it sort of makes me feel as if the moon were out during the day instead of the sun rather than it just being a minor plot point, which I suppose it is. I assume this is the main complaint of comics fans rather than the race swap. The Fantastic Four are such iconic characters and a little change like this feels massive. I don't think it's a good sign as far as the movie. I think it would probably be fine if Marvel were behind it rather than Fox considering how shitty their FF movies are supposed to be (I haven't seen them because I wanted to be disappointed).

For the guy who says this above this above:

Read the comic book. They look exactly like teenagers.

That's not true. None of them are teenagers in the comics at the moment. Johnny Storm was a teenager when the comic started, but now he's a twenty-something-year-old. Besides him, the rest started out as adults.

They're teenagers in the Ultimate Fantastic Four title, so they're probably doing something similar to that.

david95's picture
david95 February 21, 2014 - 10:27am

For the guy who says this above this above:

    Read the comic book. They look exactly like teenagers.

That's not true. None of them are teenagers in the comics at the moment. Johnny Storm was a teenager when the comic started, but now he's a twenty-something-year-old. Besides him, the rest started out as adults.

They're teenagers in the Ultimate Fantastic Four title, so they're probably doing something similar to that.

PLEASE STOP with the that's not true statement. They look like it to me. I NEVER said they WERE. I said they LOOK LIKE IT.

And they STILL DO TO ME.

Why is that so hard for people to understand? Are you wanting to convince me that they don't look like that to me?

I was talkng about when the comic books started, that is back in the 60s. He would be like 60+ years old now. :)

So maybe they should use Sylvestor Stallon as Reed. Sharon Stone as Sue. Samual L. Jackson as Johnny, and Stephen Hawkins as the Thing. :)

I am fascinated by it all though. Out of many sites I have been to. This is the only one that really has anyone "defending" this choice. other sites, even those who claim to be black, are stating this is a bad idea.

Bradley Sands's picture
Bradley Sands from Boston is reading Greil Marcus's The History of Rock 'N' Roll in Ten Songs February 21, 2014 - 10:25am

Teenagers usually don't have greying hair. If it's that important to you, link to an image where they look like teenagers.

"Comic time" goes slower than real time. A year in the real world isn't the equivalent of a year in the world of the Marvel universe. They've probably only aged about ten years since the sixties.

david95's picture
david95 February 21, 2014 - 10:31am

"Teenagers usually don't have greying hair. If it's that important to you, link to an image where they look like teenagers."

Did you read the comic books or even 'watch" the first movie? Where did the grey hair come from? From the mutation that gave them the powers. He did not have grey hair before they became Fantastic Four. And ONLY Reed developed the 2 gray haired streaks afterwards.

Google Fantastic Four. Every comic book picture you see looks like teenagers TO ME. Sorry that you disagree with me and really want to change the way I think.

Bradley Sands's picture
Bradley Sands from Boston is reading Greil Marcus's The History of Rock 'N' Roll in Ten Songs February 21, 2014 - 10:30am

Haven't seen the movies/have read about 300 issues.

david95's picture
david95 February 21, 2014 - 10:38am

Then pull them back out and read how Reed got his 2 grey "streaks". He never had grey hair. just 2 grey streaks.

if you want to see grey hair, then look at mine. Mine is turning grey. :)

And if you would like, google teens with grey hair. I think you will be shocked.

And it's really irrelevent that I think they look like teenagers. It really shouldn't be an issue anyway. It was just a statement that everyone seems to freak out over. Don't worry about what I think they look like. :)

Bradley Sands's picture
Bradley Sands from Boston is reading Greil Marcus's The History of Rock 'N' Roll in Ten Songs February 21, 2014 - 10:41am

Just looked at the first issue from 1961. He had grey streaks before he went up in the ship. Here's a page: http://www.comicartville.com/originffpg2.jpg

Perhaps it's different in the movie.

david95's picture
david95 February 21, 2014 - 10:49am

"Just looked at the first issue from 1961. He had grey streaks before he went up in the ship. Perhaps it's different in the movie."

Thanks. When I get home I will pull it out and look. Heck, I'm 48, it's been over 30 years since I pulled them out. I remember it in the movie for sure. If I am incorrect onthis, I am man enough to admit it.

In the picture, is it two grey streaks like in the movie above his ears. I seem to remember that. He doesn't have all grey hair. Just 2 streaks above his ears.

And as I said above. Reed is the oldest looking of the four. But he should be, he is supposed to be older and wiser than the others anyway. But, he still looks young to me. The comic book seemed to show the Fantastic Four as younger than others, like X-Men and such.

 

http://www.livestrong.com/article/167294-what-causes-white-hair-at-a-you...

Gerd Duerner's picture
Gerd Duerner from Germany is reading Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm February 21, 2014 - 11:35am

So, Susan has a black brother from another mother, now?

Did daddy invisible go astray?

The questions abound... very PC decision, I guess, but why didn't they choose Reed, he's after all supposed to be perfect (or was a black brother acceptable but a black husband already considered to risqué?). :)

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated February 21, 2014 - 12:50pm

@David - I pointed out the gray thing hours ago, but good you can admit it. No joke, lots of people would deny it was there.

@Rob - That same page goes to discuss who black on white seems to be uncommon, and the 18% seem to take into account if anyone in the house is a different race.  But, and I'm sticking to this one, the more I think about this the bigger a stretch that breaks disbelief.  And that is pretty important to keep when you are watching sci fi, and you don't get it back with a bad joke at the expense of the 'racist' character who is a little shocked they are brother and sister.  

If the want to modernize it they could go with Ben's disfigurement, Johnny having a bastard kid, Sue being religious while Reed seems to be an atheist, or Franklin Benjimen Richards having 'special needs'.

I think a better question might be, when has race changing of a major character in a comic movie, without having already done it years ago in the comic, been part of a really good movie?  Has there been one and I just missed it?

Jonathan Riley's picture
Jonathan Riley from Memphis, Tennessee is reading Flashover by Gordon Highland February 21, 2014 - 3:26pm

I never read the comics, so I don't really care either way. If I watch the movie and the writing/plot/acting are executed in such a way that makes me believe they are siblings then I'm fine with that. I'm just reading this thread because it's interesting. 

 

David you said:

If you can show me one bit of evidence of ONE race woman who is a direct sibling of another race person. I will concede that Magic Johsnon could vey well be my real brother.

When GoshDarnMyLife presented you with an example of twins born from the same womb one white and one black you said it was irrelevant, but it's exactly the best example of what you asked him to show you. Quite suprised me I think it's cool as hell. Two twins of different races. Anyway, then you ignored it altogether. That's funny. 

Also, maybe the actors look young. Maybe they did in the comics. I don't know. But the youngest actor in the movie is 27 and the oldest is 31. Not sure  what age their characters are supposed to be but no reason to believe these actors can't atleast play their own ages even though they are usually cast in younger roles.

Brian McGackin's picture
Brian McGackin from NJ/LA is reading Between the World and Me February 21, 2014 - 4:23pm

First of all, I'm not sure why anyone is even trollbaiting this @David character since he isn't even smart enough to spell Leia's name correctly.

Second of all, regardless of what long-time comic book fans like him want to believe, these movies are not made for them; they are made to bring in NEW audiences, audiences who have never been able to make it through the door of a comic book store without being heckled and derided for not knowing every possible fact about the Human Torch's life.

Third, as a decades-long comic book fan, I can certainly understand why some readers might want to stick closely to source material; HOWEVER, when Lee/Kirby created these characters, it would have been unthinkable to make Johnny Storm black, which is a horrible truth of our society. These days it doesn't matter as much (because it shouldn't matter at all), so writers are able to diversify the Marvel universe a bit more. If race relations in the U.S. during the '60s weren't so tense, then maybe Lee/Kibry/the rest of Marvel could have made Ben or Johnny or Reed or Sue black and it wouldn't have been a big deal; maybe they could have made more black characters that didn't have to have "Black" in their title (it's just as offensive as SHE-Hulk or MS. Marvel or any of the other characters whose identities are tied specifically to their minority status); maybe they wouldn't have had to create a team of mutants who are habitually oppressed by ignorant bigots who can't understand how a brother and sister could feasibly be different from one another.

Fourth, absolutely none of this will matter if the writing/acting/directing is good, because we'll enjoy the movie anyway.

Fifth, absolutely none of this will matter if the writing/acting/directing is bad, because we'll dislike the movie anyway.

Sixth, stop feeding this troll. He's clearly going to be indignant no matter how much logic we throw at him.

 

Well done, Rob Hart.