Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedNovember 8, 2012 - 6:49am
See, I called it.
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryNovember 8, 2012 - 6:57am
Jesus, I don't pay attention to a thread for awhile and I come back to find you all have your knives out. Is this what it's going to be like as my kids get older? If it is, then please keep it up so that I'm practiced and prepared when the time comes.
@fport: Now that I have a better understanding of your skill set, it is quite obvious you were not trying to link to your pastiche. My apologies if I seemed condescending. Since it wasn't a link I looked around until I found it. It was in a fairly obvious place.
That's an interesting piece of work. Seems to have a decent cross-section of individuals' goals as writers on this site. Any particular reason you went to the trouble?
@Seb: Pretend you're at a party. Two other people are having a discussion. You don't approve of the conversation coming from one of those people. Now if, in this real life situation, you take it upon yourself to tap that person on the shoulder and say, "You and everyone who looks like you/has your accent/does their hair the way you do is a douchebag/insensitive/unable to comprehend the haughty humor of the UK and Canada," you can typically expect to be told that you are rude and your remark misplaced. Either by that person or by someone who overhears who happens to look like/sound like/have the same haircut as the person to whom you interjected.
At this point, do you leave the party because you were taken to task for being rude? Do you realize it's a big fuckin party and wander off to get drunk with somebody else? Do you apologize? In the end, the decision is yours. I just wanted to share with you a bit of my perspective of the shape this thread has taken and your role therein.
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryNovember 8, 2012 - 7:01am
Well. Apparently while I was writing my post, Dwayne graced us with an opus.
Dwayne, incidentally, is really a Springer Spaniel with Asperger's syndrome. He just happens to be very lucid.
@Dwayne: I think I'm going to retire my Moderator job to you. This place would be a riot if you had a ban-hammer.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedNovember 8, 2012 - 7:37am
Thanks?
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryNovember 8, 2012 - 7:50am
Any time, Dwayne. Have this nice treat!
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedNovember 8, 2012 - 8:00am
Die nameless.
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigNovember 8, 2012 - 10:59am
I love the idea that Dwayne and I are in a clique. It's obvious by how much we generally agree on other topics, right Dwayne? Haha.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedNovember 8, 2012 - 11:19am
We agreed before on something right? Seriously, we both like dogs or burgers or something.
If you define clique as "a narrow exclusive circle or group of persons; especially : one held together by common interests, views, or purposes," as you see on the Webster's online definition (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/clique) I would admit he has a point. We all would like to improve our writing so if you go with the most literal definition of the term it fits.
But he is implying we aren't open to new (to us) people joining. Even though I've been hanging around since back in the Cult I would say that some folks who have joined much later are more invovled/infuincal. From what I've seen they are mostly more invovled/commit more time so that is apporaite, not complaining; point is that our 'status' here depends more on service to the community, and/or writing skill then it does on time as a member of the 'clique'.
As an aside that wasn't a jab at you Sparrow regarding the "When you have a crush, or fall in love, how does it fel? How do you experience it?" Just think that it is important to point out when someone is literally correct, but maybe missing the point.
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigNovember 8, 2012 - 11:25am
I don't have a problem with new people at all. I love seeing this site grow. I have a problem with new people who come in, make a lot of abrasive posts, and then say "you guys are a big mean clique!" when others don't accept their condescension/nastiness. I think for the most part we're a very supportive group. I rarely see anyone (veteran or no) be an asshole just for the sake of it, and when they do, they get called out on it just like anyone else.
And it is like that ALLLL over the internet. If you come into a new community guns blazing, people aren't going to welcome you with open arms. It's actually a lot like that in real life, too.
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersNovember 8, 2012 - 11:29am
"our 'status' here depends more on service to the community, and/or writing skill then it does on time as a member of the 'clique'."
Well put and true. I'm not biased against new people.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedNovember 8, 2012 - 11:55am
Who are you and why do you keep logging on as Jessica? She might agree with me once but that is what 3 times in a week?
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersNovember 8, 2012 - 11:58am
Don't get too excited about it or anything, I still hate you.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedNovember 8, 2012 - 12:35pm
Dear Miss Taylor
I'd like to thank you for the time you've taken to apply to be my enemy and hate me. Truly we are all defined by those who hate us, and you know a man by his enemies. I want you to be sure I gave your application a lot of time and consideration, else you'd have not moved so far along in the process. Sadly I don't feel you will be a good fit in my life as a enemy, nor will hate be accepted. I'm sorry for any confusion or dismay this might cause. Truly sorry, since we aren't enemies. I understand I may not have been clear enough early enough regarding the permanence of your status as 'someone who hates me', and you may have made plans as if we were going to be enemies. I am willing to work with you on rescheduling so those events can hopefully be redone with your new role as friendly acquaintance.
This new role will not change your seniority, benefits, work station, supervisor, or PTO; but your lunch breaks will now be 11:30 to 12:30. If this is problematic for some reason please see HR about an alternative time.
Your new pal,
Dwayne
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryNovember 8, 2012 - 12:16pm
This might be one of the greatest things I have ever seen on LR.
Thank you, fport, for making this moment possible.
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigNovember 8, 2012 - 12:18pm
That was...well, it was beautiful.
Ralph Kodja
from Turkey is reading somethingNovember 8, 2012 - 1:27pm
Hey people! I am new here. Are there any you want to suggest? If so, I will be happy.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedNovember 8, 2012 - 1:35pm
Any what we want to suggest?
Ralph Kodja
from Turkey is reading somethingNovember 8, 2012 - 2:27pm
Dwayne, I'm new of the new :) maybe you could give me advice as to what I can do here, how I can adapt myself to here. By the way, I am not native speaker. I wanna improve my writing skills. So what do you suggest? :)
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryNovember 8, 2012 - 2:30pm
Ralph, I recommend this thread. It's got a lot of good stuff in it.
Dave
from a city near you is reading constantlyNovember 8, 2012 - 2:30pm
I'll take this one.
Welcome. If you create your own intro thread, I'll give you a shiny meme that is not Avery's.
Ralph Kodja
from Turkey is reading somethingNovember 8, 2012 - 2:43pm
That is really good stuff guys. Thanks a lot.
fport
from Canada is reading The World Until Yesterday - Jared DiamondNovember 8, 2012 - 7:12pm
@Utah, Frank's skillset has not yet been unfolded, unpacked or even slightly spindled to this point. The best is yet to come. You cannot take everything Frank says literally, sometimes in his attempt to paraphrase some very deep lessons he cuts the wrong corner off his (?). This then leads to a slightly different interpretation/reaction to the various statements he is making because he has it slightly wrong and other people are listening with a different ear. As someone skilled like you wades through the mire attempting to smooth the waters a tad of normalization takes place. It's all about knowing what to focus on. I have no idea who carries a tomahawk around and likes to do a radical and literal version of let's bury the hatchet, yet.
@theclique, please, misworded, the group, that's it, the group for gawds' sakes, I have no idea of what the cult did to all of you, or what the cult was or is, I just keep hearing about it but you are here and not there so....
I find it hard to believe that someone worried about wasting his time would spend two days stalking people and making a collage of their writing goals.
@bret would you believe I can't believe that you would be worried about someone else's approach to joining a group that they know nothing about generally much less specifically. In life I've always been rewarded more generously for working hard on things and getting them right than doing them over and over again. But that's just me.
AS for me, I've reviewed what I wrote - three times, I believe that I was using colloquial standard english and yet conflict has arisen as well as misunderstandings. I must be doing something wrong or the bar for group entry is higher than I thought. I've faced this before, as I alluded to with my quote, from a conversation almost two decades old on a hacker forum dealing with privacy, anonymity and encryption. I maintained back then that all such things are illusory at best IF you attract the wrong kind of attention for the wrong reasons. My stance was that ALL information wants to be free. That's the real answer. The result:
As for sussing me out of my posts, fat chance, you didn't
even address the points I've made over the last 30 postings
instead concentrating on what you labelled my misperceptions
and inability to grasp your issues.
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigNovember 8, 2012 - 7:13pm
A large portion of people currently here used to be on a now defunct forum called The Cult. Another large portion of us have not.
The "bar" for entry isn't set...anywhere. Not low, not high. Just come in and play along. But you should maybe get your feet wet before collecting everyone's writing goals and mashing them together, then pretending you've done something for all of us.
If you'd like to meet YOUR goals, or actually help people reach theirs, join the workshop, submit and critique. It is really, truly THAT simple.
fport
from Canada is reading The World Until Yesterday - Jared DiamondNovember 8, 2012 - 7:31pm
Hey Ralph, welcome, it's not like I am the official greeter or anything but I think you have indeed found a good place to practise your craft in. Self identifying as a non-native english speaker and writer was smart as well. It allows people to count to five before setting off some undeserved cannonades with that 'Post' button.
fport
from Canada is reading The World Until Yesterday - Jared DiamondNovember 8, 2012 - 7:52pm
@SparrowStark, some people like to wade in, others like to check angles of fire and still others are just tentative until they feel slightly more confident about the lay of the land.
As for barriers to entry, just because you are already inside and part of the game perhaps you aren't the best judge of what an actual barrier might be or how it might be perceived by someone on the other side of your skull or from a completely different background.
"homage" perhaps that dictionary needs some consulting.
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersNovember 8, 2012 - 7:24pm
@fport - I really hope you don't feel alienated. I mean, it happens. People don't always click at first. But if you ease into it, join the workshop, you'll make friends. I feel so confident about that.
fport
from Canada is reading The World Until Yesterday - Jared DiamondNovember 8, 2012 - 7:29pm
@averydoll - I don't feel alienated, I am just handling my entry to this forum in my own fashion. I've already made friends - I am very sensitive to textual voice. Oops, another divulgence. I feel I am leaving bits and pieces of myself everywhere...
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersNovember 8, 2012 - 7:31pm
I feel you are as well. ;)
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryNovember 8, 2012 - 8:08pm
I feel I am leaving bits and pieces of myself everywhere...
LEPER!
fport
from Canada is reading The World Until Yesterday - Jared DiamondNovember 8, 2012 - 8:11pm
As a mechanical you cannot make me feel bad about the fact that I am past my best by date.
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryNovember 8, 2012 - 8:12pm
Since you're a leper I can't make you feel anything at all.
LEPER!
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigNovember 8, 2012 - 8:37pm
@SparrowStark, some people like to wade in, others like to check angles of fire and still others are just tentative until they feel slightly more confident about the lay of the land.
As for barriers to entry, just because you are already inside and part of the game perhaps you aren't the best judge of what an actual barrier might be or how it might be perceived by someone on the other side of your skull or from a completely different background.
"homage" perhaps that dictionary needs some consulting.
Or perhaps, because I've been a member of the community for awhile and seen a lot of new members join, I have a pretty good idea of how you can make the majority of people in the community bristle. Like, for instance, arguing about every single thing and being a total smartass.
And really...there are so many people from so many different backgrounds on this forum, many different styles of writing, many different nationalities, all sorts of lives lived here--and we're generally a supportive group. Even people who often disagree, even people who have completely different attitudes and tastes are supportive of each other. So, chances are, if you are feeling unwelcome--it's your approach and not just a bunch of big meanies trying to make your life miserable.
In fact, I've lost count of the number of new people that have come into the forum in the last few weeks, and you seem to be one of a very few that is having some issue.
sean of the dead
from Madisonville, KY is reading Peckerwood, by Jed AyresNovember 8, 2012 - 8:40pm
You have now entered...The Twilight Zone
fport
from Canada is reading The World Until Yesterday - Jared DiamondNovember 8, 2012 - 8:50pm
I'm feeling I'm missing the message here somehow. Is this what you are trying to say?
A person who is avoided by others; a pariah.
The modern equivalent of the leper is the Marlboro man - and woman.
Today, the term leper is often used to refer to a person excluded from society.
Or is there some other clever meaning implied?
I have been shunned before by those little giggly girls of the neighbourhood. I was pariah in kindergarten when I was bodily removed from the homemaker area, the ironing board, the stove, the table and taken to the truck and blocks section of the play area. I was excluded from naptime and banished to the hallway to the washroom which then became a social centre. My touque was always someplace else other than my head which suffered immensely from the fact I had a 'brush' cut. My glasses always found a way to be bent. I was the last to be picked and often a gimme to the other team from the last pickers. I always had to dig the latrines at scout camp. I was made to babysit young siblings instead of being out with my peers. I was singled out for a beating by the hooligans that intercepted me and dragged me to a front door of a party. Does being forgotten somewhere by your parents fit in here? Well that never happened. And I am a grup now. High functioning.
I'm thinking sticks and stones Utah. Be wary around those corners. You never know who's waiting.
fport
from Canada is reading The World Until Yesterday - Jared DiamondNovember 8, 2012 - 9:22pm
Hey SparrowStark, I am not in the last bit discomfited by someone replying in a stereotypical fashion in direct demonstration of exactly what I'm saying. Bret, Fritz and you are all saying the same thing. It sounds like the party line. I only stepped back up to the plate because of how you treated Seb's comment, I can play and dish all day without breaking a sweat. I don't take offence over little issues, it's not like it's some misogynist manifesto was dropped into the forum, I didn't see any racism - and if I just dropped into some of the conversations here they say worse things and yet are answered back cleverly without venom.
It takes two to tango they say, I'm not tangling with anyone else, just that certain seemingly easily offended parties are broadcasting their hot buttons. So now to brass tacks, is this how you treat your readers? As idiots?
there are so many people from so many different backgrounds on this forum, many different styles of writing, many different nationalities, all sorts of lives lived here
Damn I might have missed that on my own.
And it is like that ALLLL over the internet. If you come into a new community guns blazing, people aren't going to welcome you with open arms. It's actually a lot like that in real life, too.
I'm sure I mentioned usenet somewhere. I know a bit about communities as well. But back to what Seb got called for and the ensuing censure, I don't think it measures up to the usual practice of your high moral plane where tolerance and assistance are true goals. Correct me if I am wrong.
Truth be known I'm happy with this site and have been plumbing the depths of the freebie, uncommited open spaces and having a generally good time. But I do feel the hackles rising on the back of my neck when one person's comment is suddenly attacked in out of character fashion as the most foul of opinions by one seemingly overly opinionated poster that seems to have an agenda at odds with their words.
Just saying...
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryNovember 8, 2012 - 9:22pm
Actually, what I was referring to was your comment about leaving pieces of yourself everywhere. And your comment about not making you feel bad. A bit of an extrapolation on my part, but lepers don't have much in the way of the ol' physical sensation. And thus I shouted again: LEPER!
However, as your trolling is of a relatively high level, you have succeeded in making that somewhat of an issue. My hat is off to you
Be wary around those corners. You never know who's waiting.
^^That, there. That's pretty funny.
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigNovember 8, 2012 - 10:31pm
Yes dear. It's only me. Just little ole me. I commented on Seb's post along with two others that were offended by his lumping of all Americans into some less-than-intelligent group.
My comments about how many different types of people are here, and how we all manage to get along was in reference to you talking about my ability or lack of ability to see things outside my own "skull" and something, something blah blah people from different backgrounds.
Nothing I am saying is going against my agenda. My agenda is to say that everyone here manages to get along with very little tension--even those of us who disagree. So if you are sensing tension, it's because you're being a dick.
Clear enough for ya?
And honey, if you think I am the only one who has an issue with your posts, you are not as perceptive as you think.
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigNovember 8, 2012 - 10:36pm
whoops double post.
JEFFREY GRANT BARR
from Central OR is reading Nothing but fucking Shakespeare, for the rest of my lifeNovember 9, 2012 - 12:52am
This thread is amazing.
Who gets internetz for making Seb ragequit?
Seb
from Thanet, Kent, UK
July 17, 2015 - 4:18pm
Morning. So this is still going on, is it? Also, if you have a problem with the Scary Movie films, I suggest one of you kills the Wayan brothers to prevent them embarrassing your nation any further.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedNovember 10, 2012 - 4:55am
Fport - Stop posting about posting and go post something about writing. Or write something. Join, sign up for a class whatever. The entry level is high, you're right. I've laid it out for you as well as I know how. Write stuff. Show us. Help out. Yes that all takes large amounts of time and energy.
Seb - I'm going to give you the benfit of the doubt here, but people who don't care seldom care enough to say it. Also, go write something.
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryNovember 9, 2012 - 6:29am
I suggest one of you kills the Wayan brothers to prevent them embarrassing your nation any further.
I acknowledge this point as having value.
Pretty Spry for...
November 9, 2012 - 10:29am
This is neither here nor there, but why are the Scary movies the standard for the American sense of humor? There's supposedly one set for release next year, but there hasn't been one released since 2006. I would think the stereotypical American comedy would be more along the lines of "a man-child must interact with the world," ie the set-up for most movies involving Judd Apatow, Adam Sandler, or Will Ferrell.
I'm still on the fence about signing up. Money isn't the issue. Like my tools I want to choose the best place to invest in.
fport
I'm still on the fence about signing up. Money isn't the issue.
If I join, then I am committing time and effort that is no longer available somewhere else or for something else.
In forty eight hours plus, I've been looking into the workings and conventions of the community.
I acknowledge that these quotes, as virtually all quotes, are taken out of context, and for that I apologize, but these are things that you wrote. You refer to the community as a tool. The primary use for this tool is the betterment of yourself as a writer. There are two ways people usually do that: by creating a thread related to a particular topic or question and by having their work reviewed. (You have done the former, sort of, and you're the judge as to whether your approach was productive.)
You said that money isn't an issue but that time is. I pointed out the hypocrisy of saying that time is an issue by pointing out that you, by your own admission, had spent over 48 hours researching and working on a project that few seem to have gotten much out of. My suggestion, then, is, assuming money really is not an issue, those 48 hours might have been better spent using the tool and experiencing it firsthand.
I'm sorry that you think I misunderstood you, but I do not think that I did. Kitty.
JEFFREY GRANT BARR
from Central OR is reading Nothing but fucking Shakespeare, for the rest of my lifeNovember 9, 2012 - 11:01am
How does one write like a teenage girl with no spaces? I've shown that I am both willing and able to write with no spaces, like a teenage girl, but I can't imagine how to write like a teenage girl with spaces or without.
#spaces
Stacy Kear
from Bucyrus, Ohio lives in New Jersey is reading The Art of War November 9, 2012 - 11:08am
@ Seb ~ brace up. What I said wasn't that mean.
I echoed your stereotype of Americans with a stereotype of British folks.
I pointed out that your broad generalization of all American's not getting British and Canadian humor was stupid, I stand by that.
Yes, the Wayan brothers do need to be stopped.
The elephant gun being up your ass was a joke. Duh.
As for you Fport, I didn't read your opener at first and just cut to the chase of welcoming you to the group. I saw that you commented back that I "didn't get you" and ignored that because you obviously hadn't read my post stating that I didn't bother reading your post. I then later read your post, made a joke of being left out of your manifesto, and welcomed you once again into the fold of our cliquey clique.
Now I have a story to finish writing.
Welcome, big Canadian bear hugs and kisses on both cheeks to the both of you.
fport
from Canada is reading The World Until Yesterday - Jared DiamondNovember 9, 2012 - 6:09pm
Hey Stacy I get it, got it, had it. Utah is having fun, not getting involved not giving much away. I asked him what he does as moderator and he demonstrated. And Bret I think what I said:
Like my tools I want to choose the best place to invest in.
Place meaning community, forums, resources not a tool, though you could stretch the analogy, however if you do I am not responsible for the stretching - 'like' being that part of speech that indicates 'similar' but 'not', yes? I even explained why:
If I join, then I am committing time and effort that is no longer available somewhere else or for something else.
Dwayne, I get it, averydoll, sparrowstark, fritz and bret have made the pitch. If the fucking outrageous and twice banned word "CLIQUE" had not been uttered, where would we stand today. If I hadn't bothered to read through the forums (gosh, getting a good dose of the site that a bland two dimensional view wouldn't have held a candle to in this short discussion and I could have missed all this fun). Let me just state how much I really, really enjoy being called all sorts of things from smartypants to penis when I am doing research.
Now to the meat of the discussion. What does vocabulary indicate? How about the form of expression used in debate? I'm ever so grateful to Seb for wandering by and standing his ground. I'm sorry, but before I moved into the spare room I wanted some answers. You guys all gave them, I can work with that, I can live with that too. Thanks for playing, I'll try and make the next thread I start way more relevant than goals for writing and just looking for some anecdotal affinity.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedNovember 10, 2012 - 5:10am
I'm mean this literally, not trying to be mean; yeah that would be a good idea for the next thread. Although 'specific' might be a better word then 'reliant'. Most of us post on the forums to blow off steam (call each other out on silly stuff, call each other names, share/look at links, etc.) or for a very specific reason (what is a good do it yourself book for roofs I might want to write one and want to see how others did it, do you like long introductions, etc.).
When you deal with big general goals and emotions anyone, even those of us in the clique as you would say, tend to get very poor results. The ones that get a lot of good solid feed back are limited in goal. For example the top 3 nonstick threads right now -
Being silly, blowing off steam talking about food.
No mix and matching, nothing general, O.P. getting about what they wanted in a form of lively discussion.
fport
from Canada is reading The World Until Yesterday - Jared DiamondNovember 10, 2012 - 10:01am
@dwayne - what's for dinner? 'kay and all. non sticky, got it.
Let's get one thing out of the way here, been an adult for a few years now. Since I was twelve or so, by adult, I mean keeping my own counsel and taking responsibilities for my decisions as best my capacity allowed, that's age and experience related and on a graduated scale, at least that's the way I remember it, and by remember I am cognizant of the new neural/cognitive/linguistic/psych science findings about memory and stuff we all think is real so that definition is open to constant correction and modification. Oh right, the point, I can take it and I don't run off and pout because someone sticks, what they think, is a big fucking knife in me. In skilled hands the reactions say more than the actual events that triggered them.
Second, get off the fucking "CLIQUE" train, it is obviously a huge trigger word and is causing all sorts of dissonance within the conversation, there are newbies and established group members, there are shadows and lurkers and ROM's (sorry read only members). I get that too. Oh, and the big one is about being a paying joined up participating writing reviewing member. I fucking get that too. Maybe I have commitment issues like my fear of dentists. Try and respect that or you can cruelly laugh out loud if you find that funny. If you had my masked, foul breathed, big pore-nosed, triple layer lensed sadist for your first dental experiences maybe you could understand that fear. Nowadays it has been reduced to simple avoidance and the crowns and jaw surgery didn't leave psychic scars, they were just necessary procedures. Having vomited those facts out I move back to the topic of 'you people', I don't know you, should I trust people just because they say I should? Someone wants my money. They yell value value value, unique, best and such at me implying I am stupid if I don't get it. I get it. You might not think so but I do.
Got to go now, my fancy GFX dual GPU card took a shit last night and lost two of my three monitors. One of the damn GPU's is malfunctioning and dead. Thank god my other GFX card had not gone out the door yet. That was a lot of time spent dealing with that issue. So this is all I had time for today.
I'm starting to like you guys. :-)
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedNovember 10, 2012 - 12:04pm
Port, we aren't the guys you are trusting with your money, we're the people standing in line in front of you. We aren't trying to sell you anything but you have to get in the line or out.
fport
from Canada is reading The World Until Yesterday - Jared DiamondNovember 10, 2012 - 12:12pm
Omg - that was stupid of me. Wait a second, why are you, a cannibal, offering me a place in line?
See, I called it.
Jesus, I don't pay attention to a thread for awhile and I come back to find you all have your knives out. Is this what it's going to be like as my kids get older? If it is, then please keep it up so that I'm practiced and prepared when the time comes.
@fport: Now that I have a better understanding of your skill set, it is quite obvious you were not trying to link to your pastiche. My apologies if I seemed condescending. Since it wasn't a link I looked around until I found it. It was in a fairly obvious place.
That's an interesting piece of work. Seems to have a decent cross-section of individuals' goals as writers on this site. Any particular reason you went to the trouble?
@Seb: Pretend you're at a party. Two other people are having a discussion. You don't approve of the conversation coming from one of those people. Now if, in this real life situation, you take it upon yourself to tap that person on the shoulder and say, "You and everyone who looks like you/has your accent/does their hair the way you do is a douchebag/insensitive/unable to comprehend the haughty humor of the UK and Canada," you can typically expect to be told that you are rude and your remark misplaced. Either by that person or by someone who overhears who happens to look like/sound like/have the same haircut as the person to whom you interjected.
At this point, do you leave the party because you were taken to task for being rude? Do you realize it's a big fuckin party and wander off to get drunk with somebody else? Do you apologize? In the end, the decision is yours. I just wanted to share with you a bit of my perspective of the shape this thread has taken and your role therein.
Well. Apparently while I was writing my post, Dwayne graced us with an opus.
Dwayne, incidentally, is really a Springer Spaniel with Asperger's syndrome. He just happens to be very lucid.
@Dwayne: I think I'm going to retire my Moderator job to you. This place would be a riot if you had a ban-hammer.
Thanks?
Any time, Dwayne. Have this nice treat!
Die nameless.
I love the idea that Dwayne and I are in a clique. It's obvious by how much we generally agree on other topics, right Dwayne? Haha.
We agreed before on something right? Seriously, we both like dogs or burgers or something.
If you define clique as "a narrow exclusive circle or group of persons; especially : one held together by common interests, views, or purposes," as you see on the Webster's online definition (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/clique) I would admit he has a point. We all would like to improve our writing so if you go with the most literal definition of the term it fits.
But he is implying we aren't open to new (to us) people joining. Even though I've been hanging around since back in the Cult I would say that some folks who have joined much later are more invovled/infuincal. From what I've seen they are mostly more invovled/commit more time so that is apporaite, not complaining; point is that our 'status' here depends more on service to the community, and/or writing skill then it does on time as a member of the 'clique'.
As an aside that wasn't a jab at you Sparrow regarding the "When you have a crush, or fall in love, how does it fel? How do you experience it?" Just think that it is important to point out when someone is literally correct, but maybe missing the point.
I don't have a problem with new people at all. I love seeing this site grow. I have a problem with new people who come in, make a lot of abrasive posts, and then say "you guys are a big mean clique!" when others don't accept their condescension/nastiness. I think for the most part we're a very supportive group. I rarely see anyone (veteran or no) be an asshole just for the sake of it, and when they do, they get called out on it just like anyone else.
And it is like that ALLLL over the internet. If you come into a new community guns blazing, people aren't going to welcome you with open arms. It's actually a lot like that in real life, too.
"our 'status' here depends more on service to the community, and/or writing skill then it does on time as a member of the 'clique'."
Well put and true. I'm not biased against new people.
Who are you and why do you keep logging on as Jessica? She might agree with me once but that is what 3 times in a week?
Don't get too excited about it or anything, I still hate you.
Dear Miss Taylor
I'd like to thank you for the time you've taken to apply to be my enemy and hate me. Truly we are all defined by those who hate us, and you know a man by his enemies. I want you to be sure I gave your application a lot of time and consideration, else you'd have not moved so far along in the process. Sadly I don't feel you will be a good fit in my life as a enemy, nor will hate be accepted. I'm sorry for any confusion or dismay this might cause. Truly sorry, since we aren't enemies. I understand I may not have been clear enough early enough regarding the permanence of your status as 'someone who hates me', and you may have made plans as if we were going to be enemies. I am willing to work with you on rescheduling so those events can hopefully be redone with your new role as friendly acquaintance.
This new role will not change your seniority, benefits, work station, supervisor, or PTO; but your lunch breaks will now be 11:30 to 12:30. If this is problematic for some reason please see HR about an alternative time.
Your new pal,
Dwayne
This might be one of the greatest things I have ever seen on LR.
Thank you, fport, for making this moment possible.
That was...well, it was beautiful.
Hey people! I am new here. Are there any you want to suggest? If so, I will be happy.
Any what we want to suggest?
Dwayne, I'm new of the new :) maybe you could give me advice as to what I can do here, how I can adapt myself to here. By the way, I am not native speaker. I wanna improve my writing skills. So what do you suggest? :)
Ralph, I recommend this thread. It's got a lot of good stuff in it.
I'll take this one.
Welcome. If you create your own intro thread, I'll give you a shiny meme that is not Avery's.
Fill out your profile.
Read Courtney's Intro Thread HERE.
We're really quite nice.
That is really good stuff guys. Thanks a lot.
@Utah, Frank's skillset has not yet been unfolded, unpacked or even slightly spindled to this point. The best is yet to come. You cannot take everything Frank says literally, sometimes in his attempt to paraphrase some very deep lessons he cuts the wrong corner off his (?). This then leads to a slightly different interpretation/reaction to the various statements he is making because he has it slightly wrong and other people are listening with a different ear. As someone skilled like you wades through the mire attempting to smooth the waters a tad of normalization takes place. It's all about knowing what to focus on. I have no idea who carries a tomahawk around and likes to do a radical and literal version of let's bury the hatchet, yet.
@theclique, please, misworded, the group, that's it, the group for gawds' sakes, I have no idea of what the cult did to all of you, or what the cult was or is, I just keep hearing about it but you are here and not there so....
@bret would you believe I can't believe that you would be worried about someone else's approach to joining a group that they know nothing about generally much less specifically. In life I've always been rewarded more generously for working hard on things and getting them right than doing them over and over again. But that's just me.
AS for me, I've reviewed what I wrote - three times, I believe that I was using colloquial standard english and yet conflict has arisen as well as misunderstandings. I must be doing something wrong or the bar for group entry is higher than I thought. I've faced this before, as I alluded to with my quote, from a conversation almost two decades old on a hacker forum dealing with privacy, anonymity and encryption. I maintained back then that all such things are illusory at best IF you attract the wrong kind of attention for the wrong reasons. My stance was that ALL information wants to be free. That's the real answer. The result:
A large portion of people currently here used to be on a now defunct forum called The Cult. Another large portion of us have not.
The "bar" for entry isn't set...anywhere. Not low, not high. Just come in and play along. But you should maybe get your feet wet before collecting everyone's writing goals and mashing them together, then pretending you've done something for all of us.
If you'd like to meet YOUR goals, or actually help people reach theirs, join the workshop, submit and critique. It is really, truly THAT simple.
Hey Ralph, welcome, it's not like I am the official greeter or anything but I think you have indeed found a good place to practise your craft in. Self identifying as a non-native english speaker and writer was smart as well. It allows people to count to five before setting off some undeserved cannonades with that 'Post' button.
@SparrowStark, some people like to wade in, others like to check angles of fire and still others are just tentative until they feel slightly more confident about the lay of the land.
As for barriers to entry, just because you are already inside and part of the game perhaps you aren't the best judge of what an actual barrier might be or how it might be perceived by someone on the other side of your skull or from a completely different background.
"homage" perhaps that dictionary needs some consulting.
@fport - I really hope you don't feel alienated. I mean, it happens. People don't always click at first. But if you ease into it, join the workshop, you'll make friends. I feel so confident about that.
@averydoll - I don't feel alienated, I am just handling my entry to this forum in my own fashion. I've already made friends - I am very sensitive to textual voice. Oops, another divulgence. I feel I am leaving bits and pieces of myself everywhere...
I feel you are as well. ;)
LEPER!
As a mechanical you cannot make me feel bad about the fact that I am past my best by date.
Since you're a leper I can't make you feel anything at all.
LEPER!
Or perhaps, because I've been a member of the community for awhile and seen a lot of new members join, I have a pretty good idea of how you can make the majority of people in the community bristle. Like, for instance, arguing about every single thing and being a total smartass.
And really...there are so many people from so many different backgrounds on this forum, many different styles of writing, many different nationalities, all sorts of lives lived here--and we're generally a supportive group. Even people who often disagree, even people who have completely different attitudes and tastes are supportive of each other. So, chances are, if you are feeling unwelcome--it's your approach and not just a bunch of big meanies trying to make your life miserable.
In fact, I've lost count of the number of new people that have come into the forum in the last few weeks, and you seem to be one of a very few that is having some issue.
You have now entered...The Twilight Zone
I'm feeling I'm missing the message here somehow. Is this what you are trying to say?
Or is there some other clever meaning implied?
I have been shunned before by those little giggly girls of the neighbourhood. I was pariah in kindergarten when I was bodily removed from the homemaker area, the ironing board, the stove, the table and taken to the truck and blocks section of the play area. I was excluded from naptime and banished to the hallway to the washroom which then became a social centre. My touque was always someplace else other than my head which suffered immensely from the fact I had a 'brush' cut. My glasses always found a way to be bent. I was the last to be picked and often a gimme to the other team from the last pickers. I always had to dig the latrines at scout camp. I was made to babysit young siblings instead of being out with my peers. I was singled out for a beating by the hooligans that intercepted me and dragged me to a front door of a party. Does being forgotten somewhere by your parents fit in here? Well that never happened. And I am a grup now. High functioning.
I'm thinking sticks and stones Utah. Be wary around those corners. You never know who's waiting.
Hey SparrowStark, I am not in the last bit discomfited by someone replying in a stereotypical fashion in direct demonstration of exactly what I'm saying. Bret, Fritz and you are all saying the same thing. It sounds like the party line. I only stepped back up to the plate because of how you treated Seb's comment, I can play and dish all day without breaking a sweat. I don't take offence over little issues, it's not like it's some misogynist manifesto was dropped into the forum, I didn't see any racism - and if I just dropped into some of the conversations here they say worse things and yet are answered back cleverly without venom.
It takes two to tango they say, I'm not tangling with anyone else, just that certain seemingly easily offended parties are broadcasting their hot buttons. So now to brass tacks, is this how you treat your readers? As idiots?
Damn I might have missed that on my own.
I'm sure I mentioned usenet somewhere. I know a bit about communities as well. But back to what Seb got called for and the ensuing censure, I don't think it measures up to the usual practice of your high moral plane where tolerance and assistance are true goals. Correct me if I am wrong.
Truth be known I'm happy with this site and have been plumbing the depths of the freebie, uncommited open spaces and having a generally good time. But I do feel the hackles rising on the back of my neck when one person's comment is suddenly attacked in out of character fashion as the most foul of opinions by one seemingly overly opinionated poster that seems to have an agenda at odds with their words.
Just saying...
Actually, what I was referring to was your comment about leaving pieces of yourself everywhere. And your comment about not making you feel bad. A bit of an extrapolation on my part, but lepers don't have much in the way of the ol' physical sensation. And thus I shouted again: LEPER!
However, as your trolling is of a relatively high level, you have succeeded in making that somewhat of an issue. My hat is off to you
^^That, there. That's pretty funny.
Yes dear. It's only me. Just little ole me. I commented on Seb's post along with two others that were offended by his lumping of all Americans into some less-than-intelligent group.
My comments about how many different types of people are here, and how we all manage to get along was in reference to you talking about my ability or lack of ability to see things outside my own "skull" and something, something blah blah people from different backgrounds.
Nothing I am saying is going against my agenda. My agenda is to say that everyone here manages to get along with very little tension--even those of us who disagree. So if you are sensing tension, it's because you're being a dick.
Clear enough for ya?
And honey, if you think I am the only one who has an issue with your posts, you are not as perceptive as you think.
whoops double post.
This thread is amazing.
Who gets internetz for making Seb ragequit?
Morning. So this is still going on, is it? Also, if you have a problem with the Scary Movie films, I suggest one of you kills the Wayan brothers to prevent them embarrassing your nation any further.
Fport - Stop posting about posting and go post something about writing. Or write something. Join, sign up for a class whatever. The entry level is high, you're right. I've laid it out for you as well as I know how. Write stuff. Show us. Help out. Yes that all takes large amounts of time and energy.
Seb - I'm going to give you the benfit of the doubt here, but people who don't care seldom care enough to say it. Also, go write something.
I acknowledge this point as having value.
This is neither here nor there, but why are the Scary movies the standard for the American sense of humor? There's supposedly one set for release next year, but there hasn't been one released since 2006. I would think the stereotypical American comedy would be more along the lines of "a man-child must interact with the world," ie the set-up for most movies involving Judd Apatow, Adam Sandler, or Will Ferrell.
I'm still on the fence about signing up. Money isn't the issue. Like my tools I want to choose the best place to invest in.
fport
I acknowledge that these quotes, as virtually all quotes, are taken out of context, and for that I apologize, but these are things that you wrote. You refer to the community as a tool. The primary use for this tool is the betterment of yourself as a writer. There are two ways people usually do that: by creating a thread related to a particular topic or question and by having their work reviewed. (You have done the former, sort of, and you're the judge as to whether your approach was productive.)
You said that money isn't an issue but that time is. I pointed out the hypocrisy of saying that time is an issue by pointing out that you, by your own admission, had spent over 48 hours researching and working on a project that few seem to have gotten much out of. My suggestion, then, is, assuming money really is not an issue, those 48 hours might have been better spent using the tool and experiencing it firsthand.
I'm sorry that you think I misunderstood you, but I do not think that I did. Kitty.
How does one write like a teenage girl with no spaces? I've shown that I am both willing and able to write with no spaces, like a teenage girl, but I can't imagine how to write like a teenage girl with spaces or without.
#spaces
@ Seb ~ brace up. What I said wasn't that mean.
I echoed your stereotype of Americans with a stereotype of British folks.
I pointed out that your broad generalization of all American's not getting British and Canadian humor was stupid, I stand by that.
Yes, the Wayan brothers do need to be stopped.
The elephant gun being up your ass was a joke. Duh.
As for you Fport, I didn't read your opener at first and just cut to the chase of welcoming you to the group. I saw that you commented back that I "didn't get you" and ignored that because you obviously hadn't read my post stating that I didn't bother reading your post. I then later read your post, made a joke of being left out of your manifesto, and welcomed you once again into the fold of our cliquey clique.
Now I have a story to finish writing.
Welcome, big Canadian bear hugs and kisses on both cheeks to the both of you.
Hey Stacy I get it, got it, had it. Utah is having fun, not getting involved not giving much away. I asked him what he does as moderator and he demonstrated. And Bret I think what I said:
Place meaning community, forums, resources not a tool, though you could stretch the analogy, however if you do I am not responsible for the stretching - 'like' being that part of speech that indicates 'similar' but 'not', yes? I even explained why:
Dwayne, I get it, averydoll, sparrowstark, fritz and bret have made the pitch. If the fucking outrageous and twice banned word "CLIQUE" had not been uttered, where would we stand today. If I hadn't bothered to read through the forums (gosh, getting a good dose of the site that a bland two dimensional view wouldn't have held a candle to in this short discussion and I could have missed all this fun). Let me just state how much I really, really enjoy being called all sorts of things from smartypants to penis when I am doing research.
Now to the meat of the discussion. What does vocabulary indicate? How about the form of expression used in debate? I'm ever so grateful to Seb for wandering by and standing his ground. I'm sorry, but before I moved into the spare room I wanted some answers. You guys all gave them, I can work with that, I can live with that too. Thanks for playing, I'll try and make the next thread I start way more relevant than goals for writing and just looking for some anecdotal affinity.
I'm mean this literally, not trying to be mean; yeah that would be a good idea for the next thread. Although 'specific' might be a better word then 'reliant'. Most of us post on the forums to blow off steam (call each other out on silly stuff, call each other names, share/look at links, etc.) or for a very specific reason (what is a good do it yourself book for roofs I might want to write one and want to see how others did it, do you like long introductions, etc.).
When you deal with big general goals and emotions anyone, even those of us in the clique as you would say, tend to get very poor results. The ones that get a lot of good solid feed back are limited in goal. For example the top 3 nonstick threads right now -
http://litreactor.com/discuss/word-association-game
A word game, us blowing off steam being silly.
http://litreactor.com/discuss/hey-i-think-its-time-i-introduced-myself
A introduction, no intro & writing goals. Very focused, no mix and matching.
http://litreactor.com/discuss/whats-for-dinner
Being silly, blowing off steam talking about food.
No mix and matching, nothing general, O.P. getting about what they wanted in a form of lively discussion.
@dwayne - what's for dinner? 'kay and all. non sticky, got it.
Let's get one thing out of the way here, been an adult for a few years now. Since I was twelve or so, by adult, I mean keeping my own counsel and taking responsibilities for my decisions as best my capacity allowed, that's age and experience related and on a graduated scale, at least that's the way I remember it, and by remember I am cognizant of the new neural/cognitive/linguistic/psych science findings about memory and stuff we all think is real so that definition is open to constant correction and modification. Oh right, the point, I can take it and I don't run off and pout because someone sticks, what they think, is a big fucking knife in me. In skilled hands the reactions say more than the actual events that triggered them.
Second, get off the fucking "CLIQUE" train, it is obviously a huge trigger word and is causing all sorts of dissonance within the conversation, there are newbies and established group members, there are shadows and lurkers and ROM's (sorry read only members). I get that too. Oh, and the big one is about being a paying joined up participating writing reviewing member. I fucking get that too. Maybe I have commitment issues like my fear of dentists. Try and respect that or you can cruelly laugh out loud if you find that funny. If you had my masked, foul breathed, big pore-nosed, triple layer lensed sadist for your first dental experiences maybe you could understand that fear. Nowadays it has been reduced to simple avoidance and the crowns and jaw surgery didn't leave psychic scars, they were just necessary procedures. Having vomited those facts out I move back to the topic of 'you people', I don't know you, should I trust people just because they say I should? Someone wants my money. They yell value value value, unique, best and such at me implying I am stupid if I don't get it. I get it. You might not think so but I do.
Got to go now, my fancy GFX dual GPU card took a shit last night and lost two of my three monitors. One of the damn GPU's is malfunctioning and dead. Thank god my other GFX card had not gone out the door yet. That was a lot of time spent dealing with that issue. So this is all I had time for today.
I'm starting to like you guys. :-)
Port, we aren't the guys you are trusting with your money, we're the people standing in line in front of you. We aren't trying to sell you anything but you have to get in the line or out.
Omg - that was stupid of me. Wait a second, why are you, a cannibal, offering me a place in line?
and why do you raise the, "What's for dinner".