PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 4, 2012 - 11:27pm

This is my way of doing research.

Women/Men, what do you look for in female/male protagonists? (Personality, Physical Appearance, Characteristics, Flaws, and Strengths)

Basically what kind of qualities stick or would you like to see?

Post your opinions on here.

 

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter February 4, 2012 - 11:40pm

I just want an interesting character to read about.  Gender doesn't have a lot to do with it.  An intesting progatonist can be pretty or ugly or nice or an asshole or strong or fucking old and frail.  All that really matters is that the protagonist has some kind of desire for something.  That's what drives a story.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 4, 2012 - 11:52pm

I know. I just want to pick people's brains.

I like strong female characters. I want to write about one. I just don't want to do the whole Milla Jovovich action heroine. I like it, but I just think it's been done many times.

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter February 4, 2012 - 11:58pm

It's basically the only representation of a "strong" female character.

I suppose some real "strong" characters that stick out for me are Margaret Schroder from Boardwalk Empire, Mary Crawley from Downton Abbey, and Kara "Starbuck" Thrace from Battlestar Galactica (although she's got a bit of that "tough" sterotype). 

Also, Leslie Knope.

As for female characters in books, just read every single story by Jenn Farrell.  She writes the best female characters.

razorsharp's picture
razorsharp from Ohio is reading Atlas Shrugged February 4, 2012 - 11:59pm

I think it really depends on what type of story you're trying to write. Regardless of whether they're male or female, there are endless possibilities. When it comes to personality, physique, characteristics, flaws and strengths - what I don't want is for these to be the same as the last story I read. So I can't really answer your question and I suggest you don't ask it - you're setting yourself up for a trap with that mindset.

If you have some plot idea you want to work with and you haven't decided on a protagonist, don't think about what traits a protagonist in general should have, think about what traits this protagonist should have. What works for your setting? The events? Your themes?

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 5, 2012 - 12:00am

Starbuck is a great example actually. Leslie Knope also. That's what I meant.

I don't know if you've watch the Studio Ghibili films, but those usually have strong females as the main protagonists. That or they develop into that throughout the film.

I mainly want to know the qualities people look for or don't see portrayed.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 5, 2012 - 12:05am

I'm not setting myself up for anything. I just want to pick people's minds.

razorsharp's picture
razorsharp from Ohio is reading Atlas Shrugged February 5, 2012 - 12:27am

I guess I'm confused because it seems like such a strange question to me. Why would anyone want any specific traits out of a protagonist, especially without any context as to what the story is about? In a comedy a cowardly protagonist is great - cowards have lots of comic potential. In a spy thriller a coward is a terrible protagonist because he needs to stand up to the antagonist and it wouldn't make sense for a spook to be a coward.

nathaniel parker's picture
nathaniel parker from Cincinnati is reading The Dark Tower ~ King February 5, 2012 - 12:34am

I've always wanted to do a action-type story, where the character is kicking ass all through it and what not, but then at the end there's this big Metroid reveal where it was a woman the whole time and she just happens to have one of those unisex names like Jamie or Tracy or Jordan.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 5, 2012 - 1:03am

I never thought I would see Metroid mentioned haha.

Well I want to do a story about German war orphans. The main protagonist will be a teenage female who is in charge of the children. At the same time she's out for revenge against a group of SS soldiers that killed her and the childrens' families. The story basically follows her having the best intentions and then becoming severely warped. To the extent that she ignores her and the childrens safety. This leads to her losing herself and sacrificing the children. It's not really focused on violence or brutality. The main thing I want to focus on is her losing her innocence (and her mind).

aliensoul77's picture
aliensoul77 from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall. February 5, 2012 - 1:21am

I like women with gigantic boobs and little brains.  I like men with big muscles but tiny penises.

I like when they talk about cats.  Cats are good.

There you go!

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 5, 2012 - 1:23am

Sounds exactly like the people that live in my area.

I must now observe them...

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 5, 2012 - 7:04pm

Women/Men, what do you look for in female/male protagonists? (Personality, Physical Appearance, Characteristics, Flaws, and Strengths)

- I think someone else said it, but it really depends on the type of story you're writing. I can tell you though, from experience, that writing a female protag can be very challenging for a male writer. I've found dialogue to be the most challenging aspect of writing the female protag. I'm lucky in that I have a lot of female friends who've taken time out to read my work and give me practical and sage advice. If you don't already, I'd suggest reading a lot of books featuring female protags. I don't know what 'style' you'd be looking to write, but if you'd like read a good 'minimalist' style female protag, I'd suggest reading Jennifer Belle. I like to think of her as the female Bret Easton Ellis, minus the graphic violence.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 5, 2012 - 8:54pm

That's why I did this.

I was going to portray a female lead character, but I didn't want to do a terrible representation. Not only that being a male writer and writing about a female is hard.

 

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 5, 2012 - 9:11pm

Yeah, it can be. When I was first working on The Naomi Pick-Up (then called Pick-Up Killer) the POV's were divided between four main characters. Two were male, two were female (Marlin, Jack, Naomi and Bethany). I got Naomi, but it took me about half a dozen times to get Bethany. The best thing you can do is write it, then get as many women to read it as you can. Get all the advice you can, then use the most common. That's basically what I did. And, try not to fall into stereotypes. Bethany is an ex-model, wealthy and snobby. I made the mistake of making her very materialistic, which she is, but that's not all there is to her. When you're out, listen to how women talk. Watch reality television. These are things the women who read my story told me to do.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 5, 2012 - 9:21pm

R. Moon you are full of good information.

Do you have the Naomi Pick-Up as a workshop sub?

 

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 5, 2012 - 9:27pm

I do, but it's only written in Marlin's voice. If you check out the new one I submitted, I use a female main character. I think, at least I hope (lol), the dialogue sounds real enough for a woman.

R. Moon you are full of good information.

- Thank you...

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 5, 2012 - 9:34pm

I'll read it, but not review it. I don't feel my reviews are up to par with yours.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 5, 2012 - 9:40pm

 I don't feel my reviews are up to par with yours.

-  Dude, that's no reason to not to review something. The only way you'll get better at reviewing is to do reviews. I always find something in everyone's reviews that I can use. I also understand the time it takes to do them, and always award three points. You don't have to review it if you don't want to, but please don't let me hold you back from doing reviews. Like I said, you can only get better at it if you do it.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 5, 2012 - 9:43pm

Thanks. The only problem is I can't do LBL's for some reason. I use open-office and everything gets downloaded as read-only.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 5, 2012 - 9:45pm

Really? That's what I use. Are you doing them with the margin features, like MS Word? Or, do you do them like I do, right in the text?

aliensoul77's picture
aliensoul77 from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall. February 5, 2012 - 9:47pm

Panda, I usually save them onto my desktop or in a folder and then they go into compatibility mode.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 5, 2012 - 9:48pm

I'm gonna try that. I think I use the MS Word margins.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 5, 2012 - 9:48pm

Ahh... There ya go... That's what I do, too...

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 5, 2012 - 9:51pm

I do my best with just writing my review in a comment. They're usually really lengthy and I hone is as much as possible on anything I find worth saying.

I orignially wanted to do LBL's though.

aliensoul77's picture
aliensoul77 from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall. February 5, 2012 - 9:52pm

One important thing I like to do.  Give compliments if you like something in the story.  Sometimes people only point out the flaws and then good lines get cut because the person doesn't think they are any good.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 5, 2012 - 9:58pm

One important thing I like to do.  Give compliments if you like something in the story.  Sometimes people only point out the flaws and then good lines get cut because the person doesn't think they are any good.

- Good point. I try to do the same, but normally, if I don't mark something I usually think it's fine or I like it. But, if I really like something, I'll be sure to say something.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 5, 2012 - 10:01pm

Yeah I do that too. I do it mainly because I'd want the same done for my submissions. I've run into a couple people who were somewhat rude, for no apparent reason. They weren't incredibly rude, but I just found some of their comments to be unecessary.

I'm honest, but I'm not so nice that I'll just five star their stuff and say it's perfect. That won't help any.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 5, 2012 - 10:09pm

I'm honest, but I'm not so nice that I'll just five star their stuff and say it's perfect. That won't help any.

- That's the best way to do it.

Another thing I like to do is say things like, 'I'd change to...' or 'I think...' before I make the comment. I believe that telling the person this is how I'd do it, takes the pressure off a bit and doesn't make it seem like I'm trying to rewrite their story for them. Because really, a review is 95% subjective and opinionated. My style may not be your style. The way I write differs from the way you write, so what I may think will work, you might not see that way. But, that other 5% are things like grammar, punctuation and a bit of structure. That's why I always end my reviews with, 'These are my thoughts, ideas, suggestions and opinions. Please, take what you like and scrap the rest'. In the end, what you decide to use and not use is up to you. I'm here to help, not rewrite your story. No one likes when someone just rewrites their story for them. There was a girl over on Cult who did that. People got fucking pissed. 

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 5, 2012 - 10:13pm

Haha is she on here?

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 5, 2012 - 10:16pm

I don't know. I don't think because I've yet to see anyone review like that on here... Actually, there was one guy, but I haven't seen him on in awhile. I can't even remember his name. 

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 5, 2012 - 10:58pm

Yeah I don't do that. I usually say that all I'm doing is making suggestions and to use whatever they think helps.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 5, 2012 - 11:07pm

I don't know if you saw it yet, but if you click the 'help' button, you'll find tips for reviewing. There's some good stuff in there that may help you out. But, like I said, the best way to learn is to do. After awhile, you'll get to a point where i just comes naturally. 

nathaniel parker's picture
nathaniel parker from Cincinnati is reading The Dark Tower ~ King February 6, 2012 - 1:22am

It doesn't always work, but one way I'll write Men/Women is to start a Man's character in a basis of Reason and a Woman's character with a basis of Emotion.

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated February 6, 2012 - 1:59pm

I like someone who seems like a real person, not a cheap cut out for gender issues.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 6, 2012 - 2:35pm

That's what I want to do. The main issue is how to do it. I didn't want an overdone female protagonist, or a bad representation.

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 6, 2012 - 2:37pm

I think you need to focus on her as a human and not a female.  What are her likes and dislikes?  Really get to know this person.  There is no formula to writing a good character.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 6, 2012 - 2:42pm

True. The problem is that I'm a male write writing for a female protagonist. I want to make her believable and a character people can relate too.

I mostly want a woman's perspective on female characters. Are there certain portrayals in film/books/media that make you roll your eyes or annoy you?

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter February 6, 2012 - 2:44pm

I really don't like it when people get into that whole men=logic and women=emotional reasoning. I realize that it's a bit true, but writing characters this ways always risks the problem with sterotypes. I just find it a bit insulting. Personally, I like to base all characters on their insecurities. All responses are emotional. I think the real key is that men tend to express their emotions more physically, whereas women are a bit more mentally reactive. That said, there are still variations to this. The real trick to figuring this out with a character is to really know who the character is. A girl with fewer friends would be more likely to be physically violent than a girl with friends who could 'back her up', for instance.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 6, 2012 - 2:50pm

I think both sexes think more or less both logically and emotionally. It really depends on the person.

I put a short summary of what the story will be about. Tell me you opinions.

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter February 6, 2012 - 2:50pm

That said, just write the story and post it in the workshop. The less you worry about the gender of your character, the better it'll be. Then you can workshop it and people will find where you can make her more believable.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 6, 2012 - 2:52pm

The problem is I want to have a good grasp on the character before I start writing it. The more I piece her character together the easier it will be for me to write it.

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter February 6, 2012 - 4:32pm

Personally, I don't think you can really grasp a character without writing as that character. Eventually her voice will come. Words are temporary, and they make a great base to build from. Start a journal in her point of view. That's what I had to do to get in touch with the misogynist male rapist character I recently wrote as.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 6, 2012 - 5:22pm

That's not a bad idea. I just like doing some research before I write anything. I don't drown myself in it, but enough of it to know what direction I want to head.

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated February 6, 2012 - 6:10pm

Then don't write about her, write about the parts of the story she isn't in, or a out line of the other characters, whatever. If you build the parts of her life that isn't her it will shed light on her.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 6, 2012 - 6:18pm

You're right Dwayne. I think I'll try that.

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter February 6, 2012 - 7:13pm

Just write whatever comes to mind.  Her opinions on something, her past.  Once the freewriting starts to slow, just make a new entry and write about something else in her point of view.  Some of it you might end up using in the story.  That's at least how it ended up working for me.