Fylh's picture
Fylh from from from is reading is from is reading is reading is reading reading is reading February 14, 2012 - 5:31pm

If you had to write a story about Whitney Houston's death, how would you frame the narrative? What tone would you adopt? Whose story would it finally be?

It's such a weird thing. When Winehouse died, the reaction seems to have been pretty different. It was still a lot of "OMG RIP" fluff, but when you see all these macros people are making where her death is made to look absurdly insignificant in comparison to starving African children or whatever, don't you suspect the devil is at hand?

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 14, 2012 - 5:38pm

I touched on this a bit somewhere else.  I think it's sort of tragic.  She was a great talent.  She was a better singer than Heath Ledger was an actor, but people act like Ledger's death was somehow more tragic.  I don't get it. 

I feel sad about her death.  I hate to see someone waste talent like that. 

So I guess my tone would be sad.  I wish I had contructed that thought a bit more.  But I didn't. 

Boone Spaulding's picture
Boone Spaulding from Coldwater, Michigan, U.S.A. is reading Solarcide Presents: Nova Parade February 14, 2012 - 5:40pm

Just me: she seemed too shy to publically perform when her career began (outside of her church, her friends, family and congregation).

Many performers' eccentricities are credited to "stage fright" - a couple of extreme examples are Slash's long hair and tophat and Marilyn Manson's bizarre appearance.

Bob Dylan, Jeff Tweedy, so many others - stage fright affected them at some point in their lives.

I intuit that Houston's drug use was to cope with public performance, the demands of a professional singing career vs. her obvious love of singing itself, and the general painful self-consciousness of fame in the U.S.A.

That's just my intuition...I speculate....

aliensoul77's picture
aliensoul77 from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall. February 14, 2012 - 5:42pm

The devil? Surely you jest. Its like those people on Intervention. If someone is a drug addict gets clean, goes back on drugs, gets clean and then OD's, I see them as having failed at life. Winehouse was just as bad, she had the means to get clean but gave in to weakness. Sorry, no pity whatsoever.

aliensoul77's picture
aliensoul77 from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall. February 14, 2012 - 5:43pm

She could have just pulled a Fiona Apple and cried on stage then disappear for seven years.

Boone Spaulding's picture
Boone Spaulding from Coldwater, Michigan, U.S.A. is reading Solarcide Presents: Nova Parade February 14, 2012 - 5:50pm

The devil? Surely you jest. Its like those people on Intervention. If someone is a drug addict gets clean, goes back on drugs, gets clean and then OD's, I see them as having failed at life.

As much as I always go unrewarded (or rather, punished) for this - I highly recommend David Foster Wallace's Infinite Jest for its thematic content regarding the insidiousness of substance abuse addiction and the incomparability of pain.

Just, no one accuse me of bandwagoning on Wallace's "genius" marketing. He's been dead several years and his work holds up. Love the Wallace canon.

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 14, 2012 - 5:58pm

I think there are artists who abuse drugs and people know it. When they OD it still comes at a shock, but you're not that surprised considering their history.
Other than that I try and have respect for the dead and their work, unless they were terrible people. What averydoll mentioned also is that its sad to see talnet like that lost or taken away.

Boone Spaulding's picture
Boone Spaulding from Coldwater, Michigan, U.S.A. is reading Solarcide Presents: Nova Parade February 14, 2012 - 6:01pm

Yeah, she was a long decline into actual physical death.

(cue Neil Young: "Every junkie's like a setting sun.")

aliensoul77's picture
aliensoul77 from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall. February 14, 2012 - 9:09pm

Of course if I wrote a Whitney Houston story I would be sympathetic because it is in my nature as I am working towards being a licensed therapist but I am also a tough love kind of person. I am a big believer in behavioral modification. Junkies have a chance to change their lives but if they choose not to do so, then what happens to them is a result of the consequences of their actions.  Just like a mentally ill person deciding to go off their meds and then they end up killing someone, should they be excused? Absolutely not because they made that decision to stop taking their meds. I think celebrities are worshipped like royalty or in the same way that people did multiple-deities in the Greek days, when people made up stories of humans and Gods interacting, Zeus having children with mortal women, etc. Celebrities are our "Gods" of the day and we do tend to give them more credit than they deserve and create our own mythologies for them.  Sure, she was talented. Was her type of music my cup of tea? No. So that's why I could take it or leave it. I was more sad when Michael Jackson died because I enjoyed his music far more. Although his reputation was put through the wringer as well.

I think Whitney Houston is just like the celebs of yesteryear, just like some people still regard Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, James Dean as these amazing artists who changed history. There are others who will always see fat bloated Elvis, Marilyn as the dumb blonde perpetuating stereotypes and James Dean as the hipster fatalist who was in a hurry to die.  I think Whitney Houston was a drug addict and had self esteem issues but so do a lot of people. Maybe if I cared for her music more.  That is all I'm going to say about this topic because I think people are getting pissed at my attitude about it but I refuse to regard a celebrity death with the same amount of emotion or feeling as I would the death of someone I know personally.  People who do that are out of their fucking minds. No offense.

Boone Spaulding's picture
Boone Spaulding from Coldwater, Michigan, U.S.A. is reading Solarcide Presents: Nova Parade February 14, 2012 - 10:01pm

As averydoll wrote above, there was a massive amount of talent and vulnerablity to the real person, Whitney Houston, as opposed to "Whitney Houston The Celebrity." And along the lines of anti-celebrityism, I'm right there with you aliensoul77 - I hate what our culture has degenerated into...

She was a punchline for a long time. The archive footage of way-back Whitney Houston is actually making me feel heartsick for the times and the way I was when I actually liked Whitney Houston songs that were playing (and the videos especially - she was a beauty).

I treated her like a punchline too so I feel a little complicity in a strange way...treating someone like a "something"...but that's natural - our culture treats celebrities like gods and gods get little or no sympathy from us flesh-and-bloods...what they get is envy and scheudenfreude...

That woman who died this weekend was just the husk-and-ciphers of a flesh-and-blood...

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 14, 2012 - 10:35pm

That's some deep stuff Boone. I'm serious too.

Boone Spaulding's picture
Boone Spaulding from Coldwater, Michigan, U.S.A. is reading Solarcide Presents: Nova Parade February 15, 2012 - 12:13am

what? me serious?

"Wit is the epitaph of an emotion" Friedrich Neitchze

That's as close as I get - pretension....

JonnyGibbings's picture
JonnyGibbings February 15, 2012 - 12:47am

Hard one. Especially when you mention Fiona Apple - she gives me 'man cramp' - an utter dirty boag-o-carrots.

My biggest problem is I couldn't afford to overdose lol. I have aa friend who is in the Priory, a £700 a week rehab. If you can afford £700 a week - your problem isn't that bad yet. It is a shame though. Talent is no antidote for weakness. Regardless of what that weakness is.

aliensoul77's picture
aliensoul77 from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall. February 15, 2012 - 1:31am

Hahha  about Fiona Apple.  Would it surprise you to know I went to see her perform live after her mysterious disappearance ?  I actually love her voice. I think she is amazing. It doesn't matter to me that she could cut my dick off while I'm sleeping.  I would let her.

Laramore Black's picture
Laramore Black from Joplin, Missouri is reading Mario Kart 8 February 16, 2012 - 10:17am

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 16, 2012 - 10:18am

Wouldn't it be awful to be remebered for your worst moments instead of your best?

Laramore Black's picture
Laramore Black from Joplin, Missouri is reading Mario Kart 8 February 16, 2012 - 10:21am

Yeah, especially if you smoked crack. I mean don't stars do Heroin anymore?

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 16, 2012 - 10:21am

With most celebrity deaths you have the first day, which is praising them for their accomplishments. Then the second day where they bash on them and list all their mistakes.

It doesn't make sense to me.

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner February 16, 2012 - 10:33am

...

Laramore Black's picture
Laramore Black from Joplin, Missouri is reading Mario Kart 8 February 16, 2012 - 10:39am

I don't know, I'd rather find humor in everybodies death than worship them like a big deal. Similar to what Phil said in the first post of this thread, her death is not more important than starving children in Africa. Nor would mine, or anybody else on this website if we attain that kind of success.

If you're going to do stupid things in life that people laugh at, expect it in death.
In fact, overall I find it healthy to look at death as a funny thing anyway.

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner February 16, 2012 - 10:51am

*soapbox*
We idolize people we will never met, obsesses on their lives (and downfalls) and then caste them aside when something else crosses our vision. It almost reminds me of Greek tragedy, like the gods atop Olympus. Not to mention the futility and utter irrelevancy of it, there are far more important things in the world and far more interesting things (including our actual lives). We are balls deep in a war in the Middle East, about start yet another one, not to mention poverty, drug addiction, prisons filling up ect ect. If we as a society focused this much attention on solving our problems and celebrated science and reason as much as this, we would live in great world. Yeah it's a tragedy for her family and friends, but it shouldn't be national or international news and it degrades her as a human being to make it a circus. If we are going talk about deaths, how about 8 million in the first, second and third Congolese civil wars of the nineties that none of us heard about? (which is still going on and still being funded by the diamonds on some of our ring fingers) A conflict so brutal two new additions were added to the Geneva Convention. 

The only literary problem I can for see in all honesty is: why we should even care. If you can solve that riddle, you've written a powerful book.

I'll get off my soap box now. 

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 16, 2012 - 10:55am

I just don't think people should regard celebrities as gods or above other human beings.

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner February 16, 2012 - 10:59am

Concur. 

Laramore Black's picture
Laramore Black from Joplin, Missouri is reading Mario Kart 8 February 16, 2012 - 11:04am

Poking fun humanizes them, I believe.
 

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 16, 2012 - 11:09am

I think that is a little self-righteous.  No offense.  I don't think any celebrity is above anyone else, but if they are famous, it goes without saying I would want to be told they are dead.  That's silly.  Of course it is news. 

Hey...why hasn't Nirvana put out any records int he last twenty years?  Dead you say???  No one informed me! 

Come on. 

Yes, we as a society put a high value on talent.  Most (all?) societies do.  Some just value certain talents more than others. 

I guess I am wondering if one loss of life is worse than another, and who decides? 

 

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 16, 2012 - 11:15am

It does.

Laramore Black's picture
Laramore Black from Joplin, Missouri is reading Mario Kart 8 February 16, 2012 - 11:15am

I think in a way society chooses it as the news we hear, sadly from popular opinion.

I mean they do display people starving to death, or people dying in war. It's just that it doesn't sell as well, and people are scared to hear it. So, on one hand it is the media, and the other, people.
 

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 16, 2012 - 11:22am

I completely agree there.  News organizations are businesses and they have to give us what we want and what is proven to sell.  Very true.

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner February 16, 2012 - 11:25am

I hate to get abstract here, but this whole argument is nothing more than a symptom a larger problem. The media is just a means of control. Nothing more. Advertising, news, faux-news, sitcoms, reality tv, all of it. It just a way to keep you afraid, distracted, depressed, hungry and ready to buy shit you don't need (Mr. Durden). Highs, middles and lows. Her death is a distraction for us. So instead of focusing on our big problems, or god-forbid getting people to learn and read, they shower them with distractions and allowing themselves to stay in power, or stay rich.

 

"In the long run, a hierarchical society was only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance. For if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would become literate and would learn to think for themselves; and when once they had done this, they would sooner or later realize that the privileged minority (at the top) had no function, and they would sweep it away." Orwell

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 16, 2012 - 11:26am

The fact is people don't care about statistics.

It's sad but true.

The reason why people mourn celebrities is that they provided us with something. Whether it was scandal or talent.

I was sad about Whitney Houston because I was a fan of her music and The Bodyguard. Same goes for Steve Jobs. Without him we wouldn't have Pixar and iPods.

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner February 16, 2012 - 11:32am

Well, we are nothing more than a 21st century Rome, they took longer to collapse because of shit like this, it won't take us much longer. Any society that willingly dumbs itself down and perpetuates ignorance is inherently doomed. C'est la vie. Just that Time magazine thing alone this past week should have been a wake up call.

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 16, 2012 - 11:35am

Oh.  Well, thank goodness Matt is here to tell us that we are all brain washed. 

I find that a little arrogant unless you are living unibomber style in the woods somewhere.  Or perhaps making soap out of an abandoned house. 

I think if a person (in general) can't look past the fun distractions to see the real issues in the world, then they wouldn't ever be able to even if they were shoved up their (ahem) noses.  They are likely the people I would rather did not focus on the bigger issues.  Sort of like how I would rather people who don't research the candidates didn't vote. 

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner February 16, 2012 - 11:46am

@Avery, I don't recall saying brainwashed, but there would be a political and economic motive to keeping people ignorant.

I'd also like to point out that is one reason why our Founding Fathers created a decentralized, electoral system....because they didn't trust the masses.....

Also I think if a person (in general) can't look past the fun distractions to see the real issues in the world, then they wouldn't ever be able to even if they were shoved up their (ahem) noses."

 

 

I don't think most people can look past them or if they could, they wouldn't be willing. Why acknowledge the squalor of your own surroundings when you can look at someone elses? (not you, in general)

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 16, 2012 - 11:42am

I can't tell if that was directed at me or not. I don't support any of it. I think most of our society and their values are complete shit. All I have to do is log on to facebook and see what people post.

I hate the whole celebrity status. I hate the Kardashians and Snooki above all else. I think it's people like that that contribute to tossing people's minds down the tubes.

My family comes from a thrid world country, and I spent most of my life visiting that place. What you see there pales in comparison to how we have it here.

Just yesterday, some guy in one of the prisons there set fire to his matress. He said they would all burn in hell. The cops couldn't find the keys to the cells. 300 inmates died all with different reasons for being there. That doesn't make the news though.

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner February 16, 2012 - 11:47am

You're Honduran? Shit man, I read about that. Craziness. 

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 16, 2012 - 11:49am

" I read about that."

really?  But I thought it didn't make the news?

Okay.  I admit that statement right there was snarky.  And i apologize.  But I'm still going to let it stand.  And I'll go try and work out how to be a more civilized person. 

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 16, 2012 - 11:55am

Wait Avery who was your statement directed towards?

Yeah I am. That whole country is shit, but I still think that was terrible.

Boone Spaulding's picture
Boone Spaulding from Coldwater, Michigan, U.S.A. is reading Solarcide Presents: Nova Parade February 16, 2012 - 12:07pm

Whitney Houston's celebrity was based on talent. I think her renown was merit-based. Unlike a lot of celebrities minted in the past 15 to 20 years. I also believe I'd like the sober Whitney Houston. So, the kitts post feels unkind.

But, being a guy, I recognize the humor. This is guy humor - funny because it is awful.

But, I expect I'm not unique in the value judgements of Houston in the first five lines of this post, a lot of people will be upset with kitt's post. But...

Sense and sensibility.

No sense in being upset with a joke.

And kitts is clearly joking.

Sensibility: "You're being insensitive kitts." (something we do quite a bit of here at LitReactor)

No harm done, man. I think you know that. (kinda funny in an awful way....)

[FYI: I'm a f*cking idiot who writes sh*t when he's too sick to stand]

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner February 16, 2012 - 11:55am

Okay.  I admit that statement right there was snarky.  And i apologize.  But I'm still going to let it stand.  And I'll go try and work out how to be a more civilized person."

 

Oh, it was news. It was just buried wayyyyyyy in the back behind all the Whitney shit. Oh wait, that was snarky too. Haha

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 16, 2012 - 12:00pm

@Boone

What did I say?

Laramore Black's picture
Laramore Black from Joplin, Missouri is reading Mario Kart 8 February 16, 2012 - 11:58am

Actually, I saw that on the news this morning, but they only spent like 15 seconds on it.

Laramore Black's picture
Laramore Black from Joplin, Missouri is reading Mario Kart 8 February 16, 2012 - 11:59am

IF YALL AINT GONNA RESPECTS MEH MEMORIAL VISUAL I'LL TAKE IT ELSEWHERE.

Haha.

Boone Spaulding's picture
Boone Spaulding from Coldwater, Michigan, U.S.A. is reading Solarcide Presents: Nova Parade February 16, 2012 - 12:02pm

Uh...I'm a sick (literally) individual who thought you posted the image instead of Kitts...?

Now I'm going to edit that post and stop recording my sick idiocy...

PandaMask's picture
PandaMask from Los Angeles is reading More Than Human February 16, 2012 - 12:03pm

Haha I thought I was being taken out of context.

 

Boone Spaulding's picture
Boone Spaulding from Coldwater, Michigan, U.S.A. is reading Solarcide Presents: Nova Parade February 16, 2012 - 12:14pm

I took down my pneumonia face just for today out of respect for my fled health...when I'm healthy I'll return that other pic but today it no longer is amusing...

 

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner February 16, 2012 - 12:16pm

DAMNIT BOONE! I thought you were someone else! Stop changing! I AM AFRAID OF CHANGE

Boone Spaulding's picture
Boone Spaulding from Coldwater, Michigan, U.S.A. is reading Solarcide Presents: Nova Parade February 16, 2012 - 12:19pm

Just until I'm healthy again. When I'm healthy, I'll put up sick appearances again.

Boone Spaulding's picture
Boone Spaulding from Coldwater, Michigan, U.S.A. is reading Solarcide Presents: Nova Parade February 16, 2012 - 12:21pm

Meantime, feel free to mock my current photo, with the looks-off-into-the-distance-like-a-tortured-poet stare...

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 16, 2012 - 2:06pm

Okay.  I thought about it and I think I am in a bad mood today.  So if I said something rude, I'm sorry.  It certainly isn't anything to get bent out of shape about.

It is very silly to get broken up over the death of a celebrity, I guess.  I'm not broken up over Houston, but there are some celebs that if they died i would actually be pretty sad.  So I guess I can understand where people are coming from.

So, in closing, your average celebrity should not have a national holiday for their death.  But I expect it will be on the news. 

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 16, 2012 - 2:06pm

And I like Boone's picture very much.

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry February 16, 2012 - 2:25pm

Why are you in a bad mood today?  Are you pregnant?