The Wretched World of Writers(observations of a wretch)
Let me precede this piece by saying, I am or was guilty of each and every single thing I am about to outline. As a writer I am immersed in a world of writers. A hopeless and very fruitless life pursuit(for the 99%). The unending flow of hopeless writers and aspiring to be hopeless writers is almost depressing.
Youth brings many writers out of the woodwork. Penning what they believe is simply the best and most original pieces in existence. At this point you are so inexperienced and delusional that you are certain it will only take dropping your piece on a teacher's desk and you will soon be in the ranks of Anne Rice or J.K Rowling. I don't think any of the youth know or at least respect Hemingway, so I didn't use him as an example.
This first phase whittles down the field. Many stop writing after their first piece, they just keep running around shoving it in peoples faces or making them sit and listen as they read the thing. They always talk about the novel they are going to write, although not one single word has hit a page. When these things fail to impress anyone the 'writer' fades into nothingness, becoming a call service agent. A rare breed go back to work on their writing skills and return later.
Most Artists, including writers, but mainly musicians and writers, can be some of the most arrogant and self-absorbed people on the planet. In my bar, I see it all the time. Small town, tiny, tiny, bar and the lead singer is acting like Lady Gaga about to perform at the dropping of the Big Apple. It would be amusing if it wasn't so sad. I feel as artists/writers we must humble ourselves. Even though most of you will screech in terror at this observation I must tell you, "If you are an artist or writer or whatever you wish to call yourself you are not 'gifted' or 'special' or even 'talented'." But what if you are published?
Let me state, Because you are published does not mean you are either 'gifted' 'special' or even 'talented'. Just like shit television, there are shit publications and most of the time it is actually up to who you know or your financial status that gets you on the shelves of Wal-mart. But this piece isn't about class issues or even published authors. This is about the Wretched World of Writers.
I have been part of the online writing workshop thing for awhile. This process could cure you of ever wanting to be associated with any writers ever. Much like the musicians I described above, writers will blaze into a workshop, coming out of nowhere, dump that piece they wrote in high school, then precede to tell all their friends they write for Chuck Palahniuk's website, dropping his name and talking as if you two will be co-writing a novel together soon. The Workshop is a tool to improve your writing, not to impress people, not to blow other writers out of the water, not to attract the attention of Chuck Palahniuk. Humble thyself and just use the tool. Don't use it to promote yourself, don't use it to get published, use it to improve yourself. BECAUSE YOU NEED IMPROVEMENT.
Some of the most arrogant writers I have seen are people who went into debt paying to learn to write, because they believe this is the fast track to becoming the literary demi-god they see themselves as. These people come blazing into the workshops, wielding their degree and their college project piece like it is the Ten Commandments of God. Let me be clear I am not saying it isn't the Ten Commandments, not once have I mentioned that any of these writers are 'shitty' writers. I couldn't say that and wouldn't. What is shitty and not shitty is so subjective anyway, unless in reference to some mainstream media, then it just stinks so bad you can't deny it. This piece isn't titled The World Of Shit Writers, and so I will not digress further into this rabbit trail.
The biggest delusion that most writers have is about how epic their piece will be. Well it's not Epic! It isn't going to shake the world to its knees and have them throwing roses and virgins at your feet. A piece is a piece. Nothing more. It is no more meaningful or less meaningful than a thought. Groom it, care for it, share it, love it, but never value it and above all else never value you ability to write. The only value you should have is being super fucking grateful it came out of you. Be thankful you can write and leave it at that. Don't be an arrogant ass because you can write, don't value your thoughts more because you can put them on a page. This will lead to the Wretched World I am speaking about.
Heed this warning for if you do not adjust your attitude about your writing ability you will lose it. Like the frustrated teen from the first paragraph you will become so upset you will stop writing altogether. If you become discouraged because your writing isn't causing people to weep and plead to make your acquaintance your gift will suffer, even worse yet it will leave you.
If you can shed the 'importance' factor from your writings. If you can separate yourself from how awesome your pieces are, and how awesome you are, I promise you your writing will become very pure and real, almost angelic. The saddest thing is that once you reach that point, once everything you write becomes gilded gold on a page, you will be so humble that you won't even notice it. You will just cast it into the pile of gold you have been recording your whole life and write another wondrous piece.
Tejun
>The biggest delusion that most writers have is about how epic their piece will be.
Sometimes I take visiting writers to Powell's City of Books here in Portland, and I warn them before we walk in, "This can either be a really inspiring and fun experience for you, or it could overwhelm you to the point of crushing out your desire to write. Or, more likely, a mixture of both. And set a spending limit before we go in."
Because when you look around at the vast quantity of books at Powell's, you have to wonder how many of those writers thought their contribution to the literary canon was the one, the book that would ignite the zeitgeist and change the way the world looked at writing and culture. And now, look, it's one in millions. A drop in the bucket. Gathering dust on a shelf.
Powell's is a great store, a great ego check, and it sort of issues a challenge- All these books are already here. How will you make your work unique among all of this? Can you? Does it matter?
Interesting piece. The humility part makes me think of Vonnegut issuing grades for all his work. He was pretty scathing and funny about it.
Hey. Take a chill pill, Tejun. *hugs*
Nah, in all seriousness there more than a little truth to all that. I'm probably as guilty as the next aspiring writer on at least one of your charges.
It all came over as a little bitter though. Did you have an awful day or something, bro?
The thing that keeps me humble is that I never once deluded myself into thinking I'm going to write the greatest story ever written. I don't aim for that. I aim for writing a story that is fun to write, one that I enjoy reading back to myself. Anything else is just a bonus.
writing is to impress, though i agree not first or foremost. if i was just writing, with no concept of if it was good, or what it added or didnt add to the conversation in my field of literature (let's say minimalism, and short story, respectively, then im asking to fail. maybe that failure would not be complete, as in i may write a book, and that book may be loved by millions, but if my goal was to.... i dont know, respond directly to carver/lish, then im a failure.
It might help if the opening post wasn't quite so full of self-importance.
yes wickedvoodoo, most of my stories i love reading to myself, haha i love the feelings they invoke.... or remind me of.
The hopeless world of hopeless writers is a little bitter sounding for sure. But I think the piece evolves a bit into something less bitter. I was trying to follow the progression of a the hypothetical writer I was talking about. Feeling the hopelessness is what cripples the writer. So I was showing the bitter and leading to the freedom of humility.
Charles, writing is to impress? I say only for those who wish to impress. Who are you impressing? What will you succeed at? What does failure cost you? For this giant world of uncountable unpublished or barely published writers, what exactly are you failing at? Who is saying, you fail?
If I was to take this 'humility piece' into account: I posted it not knowing how it would be received. Most of my posts go by with merely a whisper. Some are scorned and trashed. Some are exalted. But then what? If the scorns outnumber the exalts then have I succeeded? If the piece was hailed by Chuck Palahniuk and then failed to be published, did I succeed? If a publisher of an online magazine publishes it but not print have I failed? If a low end publisher prints it have I failed or succeeded? If a writer humbles himself and another quits writing altogether have a I succeeded? In the end, no matter what combination of the previous happens, all I did was write my thoughts down. Everything else is unpredictable and undefinable. My piece is saying; if you remove the expectations for any type of 'reaction', and just be content in knowing something will happen, you will be much more free to write greatly.
Tejun
See, and here is Phil's 'negative' reaction. Meh, what of it? What has he done to me or the piece? If I wanted to impress Phil I am sure I would be crushed.
How has Phil's perception of the 'humility piece' affected it? How has he affected my ability or want to write in the future? It matters none, because I have not written this for any of you. I have not written this for any reason other than; I write shit down. I write things. That's it. Nothing more or less important than that. This piece exists because I write. This comment exists because Phil writes. Since I had no expectations, what some would consider a negative comment, has not affected my opinion on whether this piece failed or succeeded. Simply because it wasn't written to fail or succeed.
Jesus, man, get a hold of your cock before it grows into your eye.
LOL @ Phil I just imagined myself wrestling my cock to the ground and punching it, strangling it till it goes down
The Vonnegut self-grades I was talking about. This is a lighter, less aggressive take on self-importance and the craft--
[Vonnegut] states that the grades "do not place me in literary history" and that he is comparing "myself with myself." The grades are as follows:
Player Piano: B
The Sirens of Titan: A
Mother Night: A
Cat's Cradle: A-plus
God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater: A
Slaughterhouse-Five: A-plus
Welcome to the Monkey House: B-minus
Happy Birthday, Wanda June: D
Breakfast of Champions: C
Slapstick: D
Jailbird: A
Palm Sunday: C
And here's the faux academic that Peter Straub created in order to write withering critiques of his own work. Some of these are pretty funny.
And Ben Marcus' I Have Written a Bad Book. Which, of course, becomes slightly deconstructive in asking about the nature of this type of exercise.
I prefer to spend my analytical thoughts on prose and story rather than what it feels like to be a writer. Who gives a shit? To me, the Writer is a professional title anyway, not one that applies to a philosophy that just anyone could adopt.
People should be discouraged from writing as much as possible. If you can live a normal life without writing, the better for you. No one else cares, really. If you're writing for an audience of one, have fun. I assume it's easy to amuse when you are writing for yourself.
I'd rather write to scorn than impress. Every person that doesn't like a story, every sentence that I'm not happy with, everyone else with shittier stories in better places, fuck you. That's the underlying rhythm throughout every work. Just need to put an addendum at the end of every piece: Go Fuck Yourself. I've got no time for being humble when I'm already busy thinking less of the people around me.
I kept meaning to put some quotes from a fun interview I read - one with Thomas Bernhard (who's long dead now). I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe we should not care about why we write and how it's received, but write because we like to write. If that's not why we write, we should stop.
R: Your characters and you yourself often say they don't care about anything, which sounds like total entropy, universal indifference of everyone towards everything.
TB: Not at all, you want to do something good, you take pleasure in what you do, like a pianist, he has to start somewhere too, he tries three notes, then he masters twenty, and eventually he knows them all, and then he spends the rest of his life perfecting them. And that's his great pleasure, that's what he lives for. And what some do with notes, I do with words. Simple as that. I'm not really interested in anything else. Because getting to know the world happens anyway, by living in it, as soon as you walk out the door you're confronted with the world directly. With the whole world. With up and down, back and front, ugliness and beauty, perfectly normal. There's no need to want this. It happens of its own accord. And if you never leave the house, the process is the same.
...
R: But this quest for perfection does play a role in your books.
TB: That's the attraction of any art. That's all art is, getting better and better at playing your chosen instrument. That's the pleasure of it, and no one can take that pleasure away from you or talk you out of it. If someone is a great pianist then you can clear out the room where he's sitting with the piano, fill it with dust, and then start throwing buckets of water at him, but he'll stay put and keep on playing. Even if the house falls down around him, he'll carry on playing. And with writing it's the same thing.
R: So it has something to do with failure then.
TB: What has to do with failure?
R: The quest for perfection.
TB: Everything fails in the end, everything ends in the graveyard. There's nothing you can do about it. Death claims them all and that's the end of it. Most people give in to death at 17 or 18. The young people of today are running into the arms of death at age 12, and they're dead at 14. Then there are solitary fighters who struggle on until 80 or 90, then they die too, but at least they had a longer life. And because life is pleasant and fun, their fun lasts longer. Those who die early have less fun, and you can feel sorry for them. Because they haven't really got to know life, because life also means a long life, with all of its awfulness.
...A stupid writer, a stupid painter is always looking for motifs, although all he actually needs is himself, to follow his own life. He always wants to remain the same, but never to write the same. And that's the key, if there's a key at all. But if you approach it like someone selling trousers, and as something to make a living off, then that's what you'll end up doing.
Well if this made you curious, you can read the whole interview at http://www.signandsight.com/features/1090.html
Oh Renfield in your third paragraph I am liking what you are talking, it's like a pist off version of what I wrote.. a more honest version.... oh and just for your knowledge, I spend my analytical thoughts on prose and short story and much much more. This was a coffee pot driven piece, nothing more. But sometimes with pieces like these, something I reserve only for Forums, and blogs, I actually learn something, which I then apply to a tale not yet told.
@ Renfield
Heh. Love it. You card, you. Please do start signing off all your work with "go fuck yourself."
@ Jeremy
the Straub site is indeed quite funny. Hadn't seen that before.
I think I understand what you are saying. When I was in my early 20's I did think this, I thought I was going to change the world through my writing but now that I'm in my early 30's, close to mid. Ugh. I have grown up and realize that it's not the case. I would be happy to write one good book in my lifetime whether it happens in the next ten years or twenty. In the meantime, I enjoy writing short stories for me, hopefully an audience. As far as publication goes, I'm ambivalent. I don't respect a lot of publications because I don't feel like they take chances on people, that's kind of why I wanted to do my own anthology and publish the type of work I believe should be out there. Yet doing an anthology is a totally different experience than trying to write a novel. When you work with other writers, you develop more of a sense of kinship and community, you actually fuck with the idea of being a writer is because it's supposed to be this lonely, private endeavor but writing communities like this one defy that and make it a communal experience. This can be therapetic or it can be an ego-stroking fuckfest. I believe it has been the first for me. I do agree with you about some first time writers or writers who are just starting out, they can be pricks sometimes but I'm sure I would be high off a taste of success when starting out as well. Just like all actors end up snorting coke when they make their first million dollars. Everyone becomes corrupt by success in some way. Yet I don't think it's fair to hold such contempt for people trying to make it or aspire to be something more than their ordinary life. I have worked in a call center and it was the most soul sucking experience of my life. Every day I went to work, I tried to remind myself that other people had it worse. On some days I even had to think of nazi concentration camps and think, "Hey, those people had it worse!" Dramatic but sometimes you gotta do what you can to get through the day when someone on the other line is screaming at you and calling you a faggot for half an hour and your supervisor says you can't hang up on them because it's rude. The only thing worse though than people who try too hard are those who give up and just become bitter assholes so don't do that. Happy new year! ;)
aliensoul, I referenced the call center simply because i worked in a call center :) haha, the guy in my piece, well he was me
Han Solo said it best:
Don't get cocky kid.
Man, when I hit this website at first it was a big humility check for me. I've dealt with plenty of other authors before, but when I came here all of the sudden... welll... none of them were really that good and I knew that, but I didn't realize that there were quite so many people as good as me or better grinding it out in the same way.
Meh, I mean, it's work. You gotta work hard. My fingers aren't magic.... well... I mean, my finger's are magic, but they don't work like that, they don't just create masterful prose without a lifetime of work.
dont misunderstand me. i dont (intentionally) write to impress, but when you're in a setting like a workshop, isnt that part of what you're going to do naturally? your responses, either in favor or against, the comments you recieve in workshop settings, or from editors are designed to improve, and impress. i do feel like people should just write, sure. but if what they're 'just writing' is nothing but ego boosting blogger garbage, then no.
Your premise is flawed:
Throwing around stuff like inexperienced, delusional, arrogant, self absorbed - matters not.
-If someone is arrogant or throwing their weight around - who cares - don't value them - easy as that. Take that attitude out of your world view.
and - that is all you're doing here - caring about others reality maps - who cares if the small town singer thinks she is the next Gaga - good for her - let her have it - hurts nobody.
As for writing - writers write, no warnings about attitude checks needed.
@ Liana - right on!
and then we have Fritz, my premise is flawed... again failure? success? who knows.... I don't even understand what he is saying.... especially since he is saying right on Liana, and I saw strong parallels between Liana's posted interview and what I wrote, but again perceptions are assholes, everyone has them, and still affects the piece or its outcome naught....
Also - if you repeat the Jesus prayer over and over eventually the prayer will become self-active. Then eventually you are actually praying without ceasing.
Wait - is that what we're talking about? Or am I misunderstanding the whole "gilded gold on a page, you will be so humble that you won't even notice it" bit?
Κύριε Ἰησοῦ Χριστέ, Υἱὲ τοῦ Θεοῦ, ἐλέησόν με τὸν ἁμαρτωλόν.
I think we should all get in a circle and sing, "We are the World, We are the Children, We are the ones who make a brighter day so keep on giving!"
I'll play 80's Michael Jackson.
Just keep the kids away from Michael
Nah, he only fucked Bubbles the monkey.
Mildly successful writers tend to be the most intolerably arrogant. It's like how middle management types get power hungry off the scraps of their superiors. And I totally get that, because I do the same. I get something published on some piddling website and think I'm god's gift to writing. But the difference between them and me is that I want more than that, I'm not happy being a big fish in a little pond. For most people, that is enough. Arrogance when it's warranted is great and inspiring. When it's not it's laughable.
I suggest writers stop talking about writing in general. The world would be improved by 1.3% at least.
That means no giving advice, no moaning about writer's block, no expressing satisfaction at how much you've written today.
In fact, you would just write, read, and go about your life.
@Phil - 1.3%? Where the hell are you getting your statistics from?
"I suggest writers stop talking about writing in general."
And then LitReactor shut down forever.
But really....
I've never been a fan of stirring the pot just to make it stink.
@ Bekanator: I'm making them up. By the time I was done reading the opening post, I was pretty sure it was okay to just make shit up.
@ Averydoll: You're probably right. I'm a bad businessman when you think about it. I should be encouraging this!
@Avery - I've always enjoyed stirring the pot to make it stink. But this time...wow, I'm just exiting this thread.
I enjoy getting high and mighty. Getting bucked off is a great ride.
Only one person gets to be Stephenie Meyer. The rest of us have to learn from experience.
Posted this in another thread, but it's apt re: this thread, so here's a very interesting blog from Nick Mamatas about writers giving advice to writers: Ten Bits of Advice Writers Should Stop Giving to Aspiring Writers
I would like to make a contribution to this thread but I need to consult with my agent and make sure I get my comments copyrighted first.
Everyone should have a healthy level of self-hatred. People are so oblivious as to how idiotic they look otherwise. It's humbling.
Kinda like how all guys think they have the biggest weiner and then they shower in a public gym and are like, "Wow, that guys weiner is so much bigger than mine".
We should all kill ourselves. Are you guys up to it? Come on.
I'm out.
I'm sorry, Renfield, do you have a small weiner? Mine's HUGE!!!!!!!!
Why do you always drag my wiener into everything?
I'm sorry, I'm obsessed with it.
I don't blame you.
come in the litreactor chat we are bored
Tejun, I posted that because I thought it may give some validation to the points you were making, since your post reminded me of reading that interview recently. Damn my lack of time, I turn my back and there are 30 new posts going in all directions, so I don't know what to respond to anymore. I'll settle for, it was never proven that Michael Jackson molested anyone! Ha!
Now I said this in another thread, but all writers need arrogance. It's just annoying when they show it and they don't have much to show for it at that point. I wish all the arrogant people on this site good luck in making it justified, and I also wish good luck to those who aren't arrogant. Because we're not really each other's competition. The big world out there is.
Now I said this in another thread, but all writers need arrogance.
Nope - all writers need confidence. Nobody needs arrogance, especially those of us who end up being subjected to it.
It's just annoying when they show it and they don't have much to show for it at that point.
It's equally annoying when someone turns in a great story, then turns out to be an arrogant shithead.
I suggest writers stop talking about writing in general.
This.
Ok, maybe that's what I meant by "need arrogance" - I meant inner arrogance, which is confidence. But I should check my dictionary - I suppose arrogance already implies an attitude toward others. Can you have that attitude but keep it to yourself?
Can you have that attitude but keep it to yourself?
Sure, but depending on which attitude you're talking about, the effects will be radically different.
Confidence allows us to move forward in the face of adversity, continue to push on while others give up, and give us the strength to challenge ourselves. If we're not confident in our work, we'll become easily discouraged, second-guess our own efforts (maybe before we've even started), and become even more intimidated by the already-uphill struggle of writing and publishing.
Arrogance, even if not exhibited outwardly, can blind us to the quality of our work, the professional feedback of editors, and potentially lead us down paths we maybe shouldn't be walking. If we're arrogant, we can become dismissive of (genuinely) helpful criticism and feedback, develop an unrealistic and perhaps incorrect opinion of our own work, and be difficult to deal with.
Confidence + a dash of humility and a willingness to learn = win.
I like arrogance more.
Confidence is fine, but arrogance is more agressive. Either can be misused, but when used properly arrogance gets more done than confidence.
I submit one Kanye West for your consideration. Arrogant blowhard? Undoubtably.
But it also means that he is always writing checks he can't quite cash, it keeps him moving forward, he has to. It forces him into a position where he has to justify his public existence on a song by song, record by record basis and either be as fucking good as he thinks he is or to be less than nothing, an arrogant fool who no one takes seriously. It means that there is no middle ground and it forces him to work harder.
It can cloud your judgement, it can cause you to misjudge your limitations, but it will always demand that you challenge those limitations.
Let's take, meh, I can't go to hip hop for an example of understated confidence, but let's go back to literature. Matt Reilly. Reilly found his limitations and stuck to them, his novels are interesting and well done for what they are but they aren't what I would call ambitious. I've read all of his books, I've watched his voice develop and it gained confidence without ever really testing the limitations and like I said, I enjoy them (I even like Contest, even though it has that "rough draft" feel to it), they have a pretty respectable degree of commercial success. There is no need to criticize the man and I would consider him a success in most any measurable way.
But if he were a little more arrogant, a little more audacious, maybe it would piss some people off, but it's a way to force yourself to innovate and to seek challenges. Fuck the haters, hell, they'll still buy the book anyways just to rip it on their blogs.
Is it arrogance or does everyone else just really suck as much as I think they do?
Yes to both.
But really, how can you survive without arrogance when self-promotion is a big part of the writers' scene today? I keep telling myself that, and then the lack of confidence kicks in and I end where I started. Can I borrow some arrogance for a little while?
I've been acquainted with many people who've written stuff here and there, a few who've actually had something published. I don't know any professional novelists; I'm sure they're all jerks.
The guy who bags my groceries is sometimes a jerk. It's so sad. There was a point in his life when he thought he might be doing something other than bagging groceries for jerks like me. But there he is. What a sad jerk.
The guy who used to bag my groceries was a fucking cool guy. He wrote on his lunch breaks. He wrote while he was on the clock. He always kept his nose firmly scrunched and he looked you in the eye. He told you what he thought. He wore a baseball cap and he got a DUI. He was a cool guy.
I never read his stuff. I just know he was a writer and he might still be alive.
