So I was re-reading Chuck's essays on Reading Out Loud when it occurred to me that this is one thing we lack in the Writer's Workshop, the ability for the writer and his or her peers to hear what a piece of prose sounds like when read out loud.
While not a necessary thing, I think it would be pretty cool. Perhaps if those doing the Writer's Workshop here at LitReactor got together on Skype or another voice chat client some night and read pieces they've submitted to the workshop already.
The issues would obviously be that there would be no points given for reviews or achievements, there may also be issues I'm unsure of. Like if this would be stepping on any toes. This site makes money from the workshop, and needs that money to keep running. I'd very much like this site to keep running, and I'm not trying to use this idea to detract from the workshop, only add to the experience.
Anyone else interested in something like this? See any other potential problems?
I think it would be really cool. I think maybe it would just have to be something done on the side, so as not to step on toes. Maybe an "honors" system that says you don't do the skype 'shop if you haven't submitted that piece to LitReactor as well, and just have a set day/time where people can drop in for it. The only issue I see is, I believe at least one person in each skype session has to have the paid version of skype to have a group video call, but I think you can do group voice calls with the free version...I would have to double check.
this might be hard to orchestrate as a group effort, but, i like it and i think there should be a thread for this, if you want someone to hear you read, you can put that out there and find someone else who wants the same thing. sort of a reciprocity thing.
the other thing you have to consider is that it wont attract as many people as this workshop does, because people (like me) are terrified to read for people. but like i said, if it's something that happens between a group of people in a thread, then good deal.
the biggest issue i see with it is that people would use it to skirt the workshop itself, so i would make a rule that it can only be a piece that's from the workshop. reading out loud is a good tool, and it can be used to help people process the feedback they get from the workshoppers here, through their minds differently.
I agree with Charles that the "turn out" might be kind of crap. But I still think if we said 'every other Wednesday at 6pm PST" (or whatever) that it would be a good place to start, because people will know when and where to go if they would like to participate.
I definitely think it should only be works submitted here,first, though. Otherwise it turns into something separate that could take money and interaction from this site, which is a great resource.
Yeah that would be really cool. Some should set up date and enforce the rules, even if the turn out isn't great it would be awesome to see this get rolling.
It would be the coolest thing on earth.
I mean, I also can't tell if I'll ever have the guts to actually make use of the tool but, hey, when I know it's there I will surely get used to the thing and - one wild day - just go bomb dive.
Personally, I don't see how it could collide with the workshops. Classes are given by experts who share tips and secret recipes of the craft. We would be just students who listen to each other and test our voices out loud. It would be more like a live reviewing. Wow.
Seriously guys, let's just go for it.
But then you'll have to (at least pretend to) listen to my terrible maccaroni english :D
because we werent talking about classes, or, i wasnt. i wouldnt want to see this turn into the "fan submission" section from the cult, where people were submitting stories for feedback instead of joining the actual game.
and you know as well as i do, you could see that happen.
ooops I get it now. Sorry, it's 3am here.
Only stories already submitted in the workshop. Sounds good to me.
Tasty!
Is there the possibility for people to record themselves and upload an mp3 in addition to the written document for a workshop submission? To me, I don't see that there's anything wrong with not being able to see the person; you're supposed to be listening to them. That would be an alternative to a Skype workshop, and it would overcome the issues with time difference, which is a big one for me - it's between about 6pm and 9pm in the US at the moment (I think), yet it's midday here on the east coast of Oz.
The biggest problem with this comes with longer stories, as the file attachment limit is currently capped at 8MB, which isn't going to be enough. I understand this is probably a server-related issue of size and bandwidth (look at me, trying to sound like I know what I'm talking about!) but is there a way to increase the attachment size for workshop submissions at all?
If not, I guess Mediafire or Rapidshare or something similar could always be used - and then you could paste the link into your workshop submission...?
Ben, I think the size constraint is also just realistic. I think most of us are either balls deep in out own writing or working a day job AND balls deep in our own writing. While it would be nice to get feedback on larger pieces, I don't think it's very realistic.
I know what you mean, Renee, as I myself am in the latter category, but consider this: If you submit a 3000 word piece (say, a chapter from a novel), it's going to take you a good 15-20 minutes to read it out loud (possibly more - unless you read without allowing time for a listener to absorb what you're saying). Now, I have a 5 minute song on my PC - compressed to 128kbps CBR (constant bit-rate), which is decent enough quality as far as I'm concerned, but definitely at the lower end of the quality-spectrum if you asked a true audiophile - and it's 4.57MB. So you'd only get through about 1000 words in that time; about a third of the submission. Even allowing for a faster reader (and for my rough, untested estimates to be wrong), you'd get through, at best, two-thirds of a 3000 word submission (so, 2000 words) within 8MB... And it's not as though 3000 words is all that long - there are plenty of submissions that length or more in the workshop (about 5 or so pages single-spaced). So in that regard, I would argue that the size constraint isn't all that realistic (although, to be fair, I don't think it was set with the prospect of people reading aloud in mind). Of course, you could compress the mp3 further and you might be able to fit it, but if the size restriction was raised above 8MB, then it wouldn't be a problem. I'm just not sure that's something the staff would be comfortable doing, due to possible issues with the server (as I said in my post above).
@Ben: when you record a voice only mp3 it's gonna be much lighter - in terms of MBs - than a studio-produced song which is made of several audio tracks and takes, plus effects and filters. We could give that a try also.
Ben, there's audiobooks recorded at 12 kbps and don't lose much at all, since it's only voice. I have a radio show in my iTunes that is 30 minutes at 6 MB, and it sounds good. I like your idea of the mp3s better.
I have no fucking clue how to skype. The internal speaker of my netbook works okay but not so well when I try to record a webcam thing, and the speaker jack is broken so I don't know if skyping might cause it to feedback crazily.
What about just shooting a video and posting it on Youtube so you can become famous on a grander scale. Actually we all know that not that many people would see it anyway. So you just shoot the reading and post the link in the reading thread where comments and feedback could be made. That solves most of the logistical issues and allows participants to function efficiently across various time zones and life obligations.
Although the Skype idea would be fun just to chat and find out that everyone is ten times sexier than we thought they were, thereby causing all of us to want to have an orgy together.
Great idea Chester. Yeah I think personally I just want to talk to other (litreactors), the workshop thing is just an added bonus to a rogue chat room for me. We could post our Skype info here...once I download it,
@Ben: when you record a voice only mp3 it's gonna be much lighter - in terms of MBs - than a studio-produced song which is made of several audio tracks and takes, plus effects and filters. We could give that a try also.
Ben, there's audiobooks recorded at 12 kbps and don't lose much at all, since it's only voice. I have a radio show in my iTunes that is 30 minutes at 6 MB, and it sounds good. I like your idea of the mp3s better.
Awesome. I suppose then that uploading an mp3 as part of a workshop submission is a possibility after all. What's James Earl Jones doing these days; is he available to do readings?
Although the Skype idea would be fun just to chat and find out that everyone is ten times sexier than we thought they were, thereby causing all of us to want to have an orgy together.
What if everyone is ten times uglier than we thought? I mean, my profile pic is taken from my nonchalent side... :p
Oh, I only get sexier the more you know about me. And that's saying something, LOOK at that avatar--I am pretty sexy as it stands.
I'm pretty sexy. Just look at MY avatar.
Would you read me? I'd read me. I'd read me hard.
Gooooooodbyyyeeeee hooooooorsesssss!
*Tuck and twirl*
Let's meet Halloween night at 10pm PST lol
And yes, everyone will be fatter and uglier because we are writers and the webcam adds fifty extra pounds and bad skin ;p
Plus it's not a beauty contest people! You don't see Stephen King modeling sexy on the back cover of his novels or James Patterson showing off his hairy man chest or Sue Grafton spread-eagled---
---Or Agatha Christie showing off her bosoms. Or Jane Austen showing off her---
can you video for free? i might have a webcam someplace, and if i dont my mac has one. i'll at least watch, if im home
Okay, I just went on the website. It says video-chatting with groups you have to pay the 4.49 monthly fee and it is only up to 10 people but for best quality five people or you risk probably losing the signal.
There's also Conference Call: up to 25 people and free
https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA2831/Making-a-conference-call-Windows
There's no video but we don't really need it. Do we?
(btw I can be webcam sexy but it's gonna cost you - I look like Bill Burroughs when he got his triple bypass though)
I think a web cam would be a huge part of it. Instead of just a workshop, it would be like a reading at an open mic.
Does only the call host have to pay the 4.99, or the whole group? If it's the whole group we may as well just do voice, if it's just the host I'd be fine with paying and hosting the calls.
Actually it just may be better to go with voice anyway. It would add something to it, I agree with jacks, but voice chat doesn't drop and lag as much as skype video.
I agree, just voice would be fine. I don't know about you guys but I'm not a social butterfly. That's why I'm a writer lol
Webcam would be cool, but is not worth a great deal of time/money being invested into it for this purpose. Voice is fine.
Personally, I like the idea of recording your reading and then linking to it. If we were to independently put that into practice would it catch on?
I plan to do it with my next submission (which, although I have enough points, is still some time away from being ready). I'm not sure whether it will take right off, as it's a bit of extra effort on the part of the author, but I think the payoff will make it worth it (provided people can understand my Aussie accent, of course!).
I like an Aussie accent.
I see somewhat of a big difference between recording an .mp3 and doing, say, a live performance. When you are recording that .mp3 you are not engaging in any sort of shared activity, in the sense that if you hear problems that anyone could hear when read aloud then the process is not beneficial any more than reading stories aloud to oneself.
Wheras if this were done in a group setting, more things would be caught, more dialogue would be had on how to work with it, more ideas would be generated, the results for the writing would be better informed and thought about, and the education of the experience would be more broadly distributed. There would obviously have to be some sort of clear code of decorum, but within the restraints of such I think that a shared "writing event" is more beneficial than haphazard .mp3 files and youtube videos.
You make a valid point, but I would argue that the mp3 still has validity - beyond what you're suggesting. If, for instance, people were to read your manuscript at the same time, following along, it would help in ensuring that your writing conveys the meaning you intend, which will be projected through your voice. If how you're reading isn't translated into your writing, people can identify where and offer suggestions for how you might overcome that issue. In that respect, an mp3 would have just as much, if not more, benefit than a live performance, because people are able to review it multiple times if they wish; a live performance, on the other hand, is hit and miss, so far as if you miss something, you've missed it completely: you won't necessarily get another chance at hearing it.
I can only speak for myself here, but that's what I intend to use the mp3 as part of a submission for, and that will give me the best opportunity to get the benefit I'm seeking, in my opinion. I'm not saying that a live performance or a Skype workshop is a bad idea, but I don't think it's got as much value as an mp3 - at least not the kind that I'm looking for at the moment.
I have to agree on Ben with this one. Perhaps because I love listening to audio books, but also live chats make me a bit nervous.
I guess that makes sense Ben, but personally when I record .mp3s though I feel like I would get so caught up on rewording things and saying them "with the proper delivery" that I doubt I would ever manage to upload an mp3 reading. I would spend a week auto-tuning it, to try to make it sound exactly right.
And for a person with that particular style I just think that a feet to the fire, sink or swim situation works better for giving an honest and managable version of the story.
Yeah, fair enough. I have no idea whatsoever how my recording (when I eventually do it, after finalising my next submission) will turn out... It could be a total train wreck, haha. Fingers crossed it's not, though.
