I'm sorry, but this whole Penn State thing needs to be discussed.
Who's been keeping up with the story and wants to have a discussion about everything?
I've tried not to follow it, but I have friends who've worked with the team years ago.
I've worked with many adolescents who've been abused at some point in their lives, and I feel very strongly that anyone who molests a child or rapes a child or woman should be summarily executed in public. This kind of offense effectively kills the person that the victim was, and that personality is forever lost. Whether the victim can go on to a productive and happy life is irrevlevant to the issue that who they were is destroyed - thus, this crime is a type of murder.
I better stop now before I get angry.
I agree with you, completely. To use the word heinous would be a great disjustice to just how sever this crime was.
But, the next big question is: What should happen to the football program?
The program itself isn't responsible, but the coaches adn administrators who did nothing should be fired, then charged with accersory to child sex acts for every count that occured after they found out what kind of monster Sandusky is.
Oh, so you didn't see the report that was released today from the investigator that the board of trustees hired? Paterno and the higher ups in the school conspired to keep the whole Sandusky matter under wraps for the last FOURTEEN years.
If you ask me, that is absolutely the program being responsible.
It's not the program, the program is the student athletes. It is the administration and the coaching staff that should be in jail getting raped nightly by large black men named Bubba, and toothless white supremacists named Zeke.
The team shouldn't be kept out of Bowl games or punished for the crimes of the individual adults, no matter how grievous their sins. I hate these men for what they did, and did not do. To carry over their sins onto the athletes is just perpetuating a miscarriage of justice on innocent young people.
If Ohio State can't play in a bowl game this season because former Buckeyes coach Jim Tressel lied to NCAA investigators about his players receiving free tattoos, how can Penn State play in the postseason after former coach Joe Paterno helped cover up the horrific actions of a serial child rapist?
If North Carolina can't play in the postseason this season because some of its players received improper benefits from agents and committed academic fraud, how can Penn State be eligible for the postseason after its former president and vice president, athletic director and legendary coach fostered a culture in which a pedophile used the school's facilities, sideline passes to games and bowl trips like candy to lure the young boys he molested?
And if USC was banned from the postseason for two years and lost more than 20 scholarships because the school failed to oversee the compliance of its most high-profile players, how can Penn State go unpunished by the NCAA when the university's most-high ranking officials failed to even do what was morally right when they learned young boys were violated and the victims and others were probably still at risk?
-Mark Schlabach
If you were to ask me; I think this sums it up pretty well.
I'm sorry but allowing the football program to continue on in the face of everything that's happened is ridiculous. At the very least Penn State Football needs to receive the NCAA's "death penalty", and all players on the teams should be eligible to transfer without having to wait the mandatory year; if you are good enough to be playing football for Penn State, you should have no problem finding a school willing to pick up your scholarship.
The NCAA does this to every team that get's caught illegally paying athletes (something that shouldnt be illegal in the first place); for them somehow to simply turn a blind eye to this suggests that in the NCAA's eyes, paying athletes under the table is worse than child molestation, it just doesn't send the right message.
It's asinine to think that things can just continue on with new coaches and members of the front office. The entire program needs to be shut down for those two years, everything needs to be re-evaluated; especially how they managed to foster a culture that put bad publicity and a good football season over the well-being of young children. Frankly I'm not sure if it should ever come back; that's severe I'm aware, but it would send a strong message that this kind of thing cannot under any circumstances ever be tolerated.
You both are making my point for me. You both repeatedly spoke of infractions by or involving the PLAYERS, and issues having to do with NCAA rules of proper TEAM conduct.
I absolutely abhor what happened, and those responsible, but the athletes did NOTHING in this particular instance. If you find me proof that any players had concrete knowledge of illegal activities, as the coaches and administrators did, or any players witnessed something, and didn't do their duty as human beings, then and only then would I agree that the team be dismantled for a period of time.
With attitudes like yours not being at all abnormal, the worse punishment would be to let them play, and be subjected to the incessant derision of opposing teams at away games for the next several years.
Mike is pretty much right. The NCAA absolutely can not just sit on this saying that they have no jurisdiction to apply any sort of penalty. That would set such a terrible precedence that it would, essentially, nullify any sort of disciplinary powers the NCAA might have.
I also agree that the football program should be shut down for a minimum of two years and that the players currently on the team be allowed to transfer without the mandatory waiting period as this wasn't really concerning them. But, regardless, something has to happen.
On a related note, if you are to hold players accountable for things they had NOTHING to do with, then you should throw the book at dumbass parents who see nothing wrong with sending their children to sleepovers with a weird old man all by themselves. C'mon, you can't tell me not a single one thought, "What's up here, I love my kid, and even I don't find them fun enough to hang out in a basement with them, just the two of us all night long..."
I completely understand your point, SP. I really do. But, how would you be able to justly dole out discipline to other teams if you fail to act on this?
I say we just nuke the campus, that'll insure fair consequences. Meh, that might be too harsh, I don't know...
In all seriousness, I do agree that the consequences aren't severe enough for those directly responsible. Sandusky should be dead already, and the admin/coaches should be getting the world's most brutal enemas by now.
That's why the player's wouldn't have to wait the mandatory year to begin playing again after they transfer.
The NCAA death penalty is a blow to the PROGRAM not the players; simply look at the case of SMU in the 80's; it's most talented players had no problem making it to the NFL-- on a different team mind you-- but the program has never to this day recovered from 2 years of inactivity.
Wayne, the way to justify it is that what happened is in no way football related. It happened in the lockerroom, and that is about it. If the players come forward and say they knew, I will immediately take down these posts of mine, and join you in throwing the NCAA rulebook at them.
Also SP; Jerry Sandusky was an institution at Penn State and in the community. People loved him and PSU football; the man ran a charity for underprivliged kids for Christ's sakes, don't you ever accuse the parents of being stupid or irresponsible for trusting someone like that with their kids.
Mike, if that were the case, I think I might not have a problem with it, assuming EVERY player gets a spot equal to his previous position rank. What makes this impossible is the notion of trying to find almost two dozen starting spots at equally ranked programs, not to mention these guys having to uproot their lives through no fault of their own.
It is really a tough case, I admit, and as much as I rattle my sabre in defence of my opinion, I cknowledge there are no easy answers.
It's so easy to look back in hindsight and say they were careless, but at the time, it was Jerry fucking Sandusky, it's like if Michael Jordan asked if you wanted to see the Bulls locker room; the last thing on your mind is "Oh he's probably trying to molest me."
And it shouldn't have to be something you think about when your children are dealing with someone like a teacher or a coach or anyone in a position of power/trust over young people; the parents have had to deal with so much it's just unfair to somehow heap the blame on them.
And I'll say this one more time; Penn State is a premier D1 football program. If you are playing for them, you are good enough to play for a litany of other NCAA schools that will happily dole out a scholarship for you. To somehow suggest all these players would just be turned out into the cold is ridiculous, again, look at the case of SMU in the 80's
The first person most parents turn on is the outsider who is lavishing attention on their kid. I don't know what the hell happened to that instinct here, but somehow the world around Jerry made a career of burying their heads in the sand.
He's a Catholic, so that should make parents suspicious from the start! (Just kidding, sort of, so save hte hate mail people.)
Right; they happened in the locker room. Of the football team. With the knowledge of the head coach, AD and university VP. In addition to that, these kids were lured into his grasp with gifts of tickets to the Penn State bowl games and many other things related TO the football program. That makes this an NCAA matter. It has to.
Not every USC player received money; a lot of them suffered simply cause of Reggie Bush and a few select others, same with every case of under the table money in NCAA history; there are players who missed the biggest opportunities of their lives or had dreams put on hold or possibly ended because of one or two other people. The NCAA clearly does not care about this.
What they are showing if they don't do this, is simply confirming everyone's suspicions that they only care about ensuring that noone get's a piece of their multi-million dollar stranglehold on college sports.
I don't really want to focus the attention on the parent's role in all of this as that is an EXTREMELY tricky and unneccessary topic to get into. Let's keep it focused on the PSU football team/coaching staff/university staff.
I gotta go eat dinner, and need a buffer between this discussion and actually imngesting food, because just thinking about Jerry Sandusky makes me want to vomit.
Good debate people, your points are quite valid, and well expressed, thanks for not getting crazy the way so many internet debates can tend toward.
We're family here. We may get crazy but we never get personal.
Word.
Thanks for that, my friends, I'll check in later.
Not to make a molehill out of a mountain, but I don't get how JS could've been so important to have ever acquired the sort of protection the program supposedly gave him. The news is telling me, back when it started, they needed an assistant coach so badly they couldn't fire him then, after the first recognized offense? That the shame an outing would bring was worth the risk of the coverup? Maybe, but they could have phased the guy out well before 2012 and still "covered things up" just as effectively.
It really doesn't make sense to me and makes me a little suspicious of the whole thing.
You should absolutely be suspicious of the whole thing. I would, actually, be very worried about you, as a person, if you weren't suspicious about it.
The whole thing stinks to high Heaven with abuse of power and corruption.
Okay, but if you have no problem abusing power, why would you even think twice about tossing JS out on his ass? Unless he also had dirt (which he hasn't yet coughed up, so far as I've heard) why keep the liability around? Maybe more guys were participating in the "activities" and JS was picked to take the fall? Who knows? Once you're talking conspiracy (and that is the accusation) anything is possible.
I wonder how the players feel about playing for a team with this stigma? I'd want to transfer, but I don't have a football player's mentality, so I don't know how they feel about it.
I agree with Photon that the players shouldn't be penalized for the heinous action of their coaches and administrators. I assume the NCAA will sanction the program, though I don't think they should. The penalty? Everyone involved with knowledge needs to go to jail for a very long time - I assume many of them will. They should all have to register as sex offenders and be on that list for the rest of their lives.
And I'm with JY. Why did they keep him around? Unless they didn't think his actions were all that bad. Which makes them as evil as Sandusky. Well, just through the cover ups they've demonstrated that they're as evil.
The NCAA HAS to put huge amounts of sanctions on Penn State. They have to. Unfortunately, the current players on the roster will have to suffer those sanctions just like the players at any college program that gets sanctioned because of the actions of other people.
If they can't possibly find any other reason to sanction PSU they can sanction them for gross failure to monitor their program and that is putting it very fucking lightly.
On a side note: Has anyone seen how smug they Paterno family STILL is after this report has come out?
They did this not because they thought JS's crimes were no big deal but because they were unwilling to take the hit in prestige that might have come had this gotten out. Power before the shattered lives of little children. Thats what this report is about.
Penn State is going to become a Pariah college after this. That sucks for the students and the atheletes. Every degree bearing the stamp of Penn State bears a stigma now through no fault of the students, but if I were a student I would transfer. If I were an applicant, I would withdraw it. If I were a parent, I would pull my kids immediately. Keep in mind, this is the scandal that came to light. It must be said, if they could turn their heads away from Child Rape, nothing about this school can be clean.
As far as the men involved, I expect there will be jail time but I don't think anyone here is going to be satisfied with the sentences. I'm sure the victims will be even more outraged by it. Sadly, its just another group of powerful men who did horrible things because they just figured they could get the fuck away with it. I'm so tired of seeing these guys get the fuck away with it.
Oh for fuck's sake. Blaming the parents, however obliquely is fucking ludicrous. He was running a charity for underpriveleged children, the parents probably thought it was the best thing for their kids, and the kids probably thought that no one would believe that Jerry Sandusky was victimizing them.
I don't give a fuck about the rest of the debate here, but blaming the parents is only about an inch or two above blaming the victims.
The NCAA took unprecedented actions against Penn State on Monday in response to the Jerry Sandusky child sexual molestation scandal, fining the school $60 million, cutting scholarships for four years, imposing a four-year postseason ban and vacating all wins from 1998-2011.
Vacating the wins means the late Joe Paterno no longer is the winningest major college football coach in history.
The $60 million fine, which Emmert [NCAA president] said equaled one year of gross revenue from the football team, will be used to establish an endowment to help child sexual abuse victims.
"No price the NCAA can levy will repair the damage inflicted by Jerry Sandusky on his victims," Emmert said.
In addition, any player can transfer immediately without sitting out a year.
I just wish Paterno was still alive to suffer for this.
Pete Rose is now a saint.
.
The program should have been killed. Judging by some of the reactions I have seen from Penn State fans, the entire program is rotten to the core. Football has become more important than children's lives for those fans. They need some time away to learn what really matters.
