Reaching out to people with different cultural backgrounds to join the LitReactor family is a bit different from looking to fill a quota.
This is called Equal Opportunities and Diversity, ethics that this site ascribes to. What you have requested in previous posts in this thread is Positive Discrimination, which is completely different.
Todd, I hope you find this constructive and not dismissive. In no way do I wish to deter you from this site, quite the opposite. I, like many others, am here to improve my writing, in my own way. I am not staff, nor admin, nor even a paying workshop member. That being said, I suggest you stop now. You've made a point, argued that point, and upset a lot of people by what appears to be assuming and judging. You probably have the noblest of intentions and may have worded posts incorrectly, but you have inferred a demand which is both unethical and unrealistic. The staff of this site are here by qualification, not ethnicity. How many of them are mentally or physically disabled? How many religions are represented? How many are heterosexual, homosexual, transgender, or bisexual? Ultimately your desire for fair representation needs to extend universally, otherwise you are as prejudiced as you claim the founders of this site to be. The point is that all backgrounds are represented as no one here discriminates whatsoever. All are welcome, from free members to core staff. The positions of staff are offered on merit, based on writing ability and reputation, not by positive discrimination.
I wish you the best of luck in the future, and hope you can now draw this thread to a close.
Todd Sullivan
from America is reading Workshop fictionMarch 10, 2013 - 3:23pm
How? You're claiming that being a non-white automatically makes you more critical of literature, but then you don't back it up. You're just giving an opinion with no factual support.
No offense, but I get the sense from this answer that you *purposely* misread what I said. Again, I don't mean to be snarky, especially since you're in the position to actually make a suggestion to those behind the scenes, but the quote of mine you posted. How can you break it down to read that being non-white automatically makes you more critical of literature?
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestMarch 10, 2013 - 3:44pm
Dude, because you said:
Looking at writing through the eyes of people whose backgrounds have giving them a cultuarlly different prism by which they preceive the world makes you more critical of literature itself...
- There's really no way to misread that.
Why is it Brandon's responsibility to make a suggestion to those behind the scenes?
Submitting for the position doesn't automatically mean employment, it just means that you submitted for the position and it's now under consideration like everyone else who submitted.
- Judging from this whole thread, I'm sure that if a minority did submit for a position here and did not get said position because of lack of credentials, education and/or experience this would open a whole new can of worms for you.
Jonathan Riley
from Memphis, Tennessee is reading Flashover by Gordon Highland March 10, 2013 - 3:52pm
How can you break it down to read that being non-white automatically makes you more critical of literature?
I think the confusion spawns from your sentence structure Todd, and using the universal 2nd person point of view.
I think what you (Todd) meant is that we all (writers, readers, and people in general) would benefit by reading stories, collumns, and articles written by people with cultural differences. That we would benefit by exposing ourself to cultural diversity. I can't entirely disagree with that sentiment if that is in fact what you meant. You weren't very clear. But with all that said, I think LitReactor does exactly that already, and you're too close minded to see it.
Brandon
from KCMO is reading Made to BreakMarch 10, 2013 - 3:53pm
No offense, but I get the sense from this answer that you *purposely* misread what I said. Again, I don't mean to be snarky, especially since you're in the position to actually make a suggestion to those behind the scenes, but the quote of mine you posted. How can you break it down to read that being non-white automatically makes you more critical of literature?
This is what you said:
Looking at writing through the eyes of people whose backgrounds have giving them a cultuarlly different prism by which they preceive the world makes you more critical of literature itself, allowing you a greater understanding of the art you endeavor in.
You use the term "culturally different prism" (which I can only assume translates to ethnicity) and how that allows them to be "more critical of literature itself" and then you extend on that by stating it allows "a greater understanding of the art you endeavor in."
So unless my understanding of "culturally different prism" doesn't translate to ethnicity/race, then no, I didn't read it wrong.
By the way, Todd, we're now on the fifth page of this thread. It's not even a debate. It's everyone disagreeing with your affirmative action idea. The people that run the site are more than willing to entertain the ideas pitched by its members, but as you can clearly see, you're getting no support here. I've been on the forums a long time, man...I've seen a lot of ideas pitched. This is probably the most universally-panned idea I've seen in four years.
Brandon
from KCMO is reading Made to BreakMarch 10, 2013 - 4:07pm
Why is it Brandon's responsibility to make a suggestion to those behind the scenes?
I'll tell you one thing about the suggestion process...when I do it, you can bet your ass the reasoning extends far beyond "let's just try it to see what happens."
Todd Sullivan
from America is reading Workshop fictionMarch 10, 2013 - 4:31pm
I think what you (Todd) meant is that we all (writers, readers, and people in general) would benefit by reading stories, columns, and articles written by people with cultural differences. That we would benefit by exposing ourself to cultural diversity. I can't entirely disagree with that sentiment if that is in fact what you meant.
Yes.
them to be "more critical of literature itself"
As originally stated:
you more critical of literature itself
The 'you' was replaced with 'them'.
Why is it Brandon's responsibility to make a suggestion to those behind the scenes?
Again, this is kind of a mistreatment of what I said:
especially since you're in the position to actually make a suggestion to those behind the scenes,
Especially since you're in the position, not especially since it's your responsibility. Being in a position to do something doesn't mean that one must do it, it just means that one *could* do it if one so chose. And obviously, the choice is not too.
Ok.
This is probably the most universally-panned idea I've seen in four years.
Universally panned doesn't make it objectively wrong, just that there's widespread disagreement. Which I acknowledge, there's widespread disagreement to the idea.
A solution was offered, and it's been rejected.
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigMarch 10, 2013 - 4:33pm
I don't know Brandon, " just see what happens" seems like a great philosophy for a bussiness to have...
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedMarch 10, 2013 - 4:38pm
@Todd - If you really don't see how your post caused people to think you meant race adds a certain positive element you other wise can't/are unlikely to get, you came to the right site. Start with being clear, because your writing is not clear.
As I understand it, and I'm not lawyer, Title VII of the 1964 Civil rights act (as it stands amended) prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex and national origin. The Civil Rights Act of 1991, the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009, the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, and the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 add further limits; mostly based on disabilities.
Let me make a suggestion about advice. Avoid 'should' advice, and give 'how' advice. 'Should' is a horrible word, the bane of happiness and productivity. So many thing should be, but aren't. Give 'how' advice. Suggest a minority writer (specific) you'd like to see teach a class. Suggest putting add up on the web site of a the English department of a historically minority college you think has put out a lot of great writers. Ask for a review of Indian writers who write in English because is their language de Francia. Or almost anything as long as it is an actionable plan, just get specific. Even after all this disagreement the community would probably get behind a good plan, just stop vaguely implying we are all racists.
Todd Sullivan
from America is reading Workshop fictionMarch 10, 2013 - 4:45pm
By the by, two lines from this essay somewhat goes to my point of the benefits of wider cultural diversity on the LitReactor team.
Certainly it’s not the act of writing itself that’s transgressive (at least not here in the industrialized West), so that leaves us with the content or subject matter of the writing.
The author admits to the very idea of which this essay is about is derived from the "industrialized West", which is actually only a small part of the world's viewpoint.
And secondly:
we’re left with victimless crimes (drugs, of course, and perhaps sex work, but my own brief hesitation as to whether victimless should be in quotes/italics is the sound of more night crawlers plopping onto the pile); sex, sexuality and sexual expression in pretty much any form outside the Judeo-Christian norm (e.g., homo-/poly-/trans- anything, gender bending, role play, fetishes, ad. infinitum);
He also seems to be basing his idea of trangressive on Judeo-Christian values, of which a large portion of the world isn't.
So here's my question: how many essays on this site come from a non-Western, non Judeo-Chrstian viewpoint about writing, craft, genre, and Literature? And is it true that the benefit of a more diverse view of writing isn't, well, beneficial to a community of writers?
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestMarch 10, 2013 - 4:48pm
To piggy back off Dwayne, why not suggest some books, as well. I'd say the majority of us would be willing to read them. Personally, I enjoy noir/mystery. Maybe you know some authors you could suggest.
Courtney
from the Midwest is reading Monkey: A Journey to the West and a thousand college textbooksMarch 10, 2013 - 5:05pm
I love Strange so much. (Read that without the capitalization and you get a way different view of me.)
I was going to write out a response to the fact that Todd made more sweeping generalizations after not reading Clevenger's essay, but instead, I'm going to look at writing prompts so I can actually do something productive and worthwhile.
Fylh
from from from is reading is from is reading is reading is reading reading is readingMarch 10, 2013 - 5:55pm
"A solution was offered, and it's been rejected."
Man, you are not being heroic. This entire thread gives me a bad taste, not because of its intention — I can't figure out exactly what you want — but because of the way you're going about this.
Look at how you start this conversation.
The other day, I got in a bit of a tiff over a review I did for a story here, and when I went back to see the final comments for the story, I noticed that someone pretty high up on the Points Leaderboard had also offered a critique.
Oh, it's going to be a narrative. Who is this person the poster is referring to?
This person is high up enough and has been on the site so long that I kind of figured that maybe he was one of the sites original founding members. I belong to a couple of other writing sites, and I've noticed that it sometimes works that way; the most active, oldest members tend to have some type of direct affiliation with the site. So curious, I decided to do something that I never do for websites: read the 'About the Site' page.
Now I understand the hero's motivation. He doesn't usually do this, guys. This is an incidental finding; like any other Scooby Doo, he just stumbles on a great conspiracy one fine blue day.
Though there was no information about the site founders there, I saw that clearly marked below it is 'Team LitReactor'. I was at work with nothing to do at the moment, and so I thought, why not?
And now, our brave detective builds up a bit of suspense in a single-sentence paragraph.
So I clicked on it, and I scrolled down, and I thought, "Interesting".
And LitReactor woulda got away wid it too, if it weren't for you pesky kids!
I'm doing this because that's the basic feeling of discomfort I get from reading these posts. "I'll frame this in a sensitive way, but man, I'm going to stand up for what's right, I guess, and I'll phrase things in such a way that no matter what happens, I can be accused of being a drama enabler, but never quite proven to be it."
Nobody in LitReactor's staff has any problem with hiring black people or any other cultural group. I would not have worked with Dennis or Kirk if I'd ever felt they were like that. They're professional, friendly, they get things done. We have gay writers, we have pieces from Stephen GJ, who is Blackfeet, and I don't doubt that we'll have a good number of black, Asian, whatever writers as time goes on. This doesn't need stating.
We've been going under two years. The people on our staff list began quite literally with the people we knew around us, the people we were able to reach out to. We keep expanding and trying new things. We could "try out new minorities" but that's insulting to everyone: to us, to the people we take on, and to our members. As promising staffers come, they'll be taken on.
Bekanator
from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay HunterMarch 10, 2013 - 5:34pm
Something I've noticed on LitReactor is on the main page. The photo at the bottom that links to the Ye Olde LitReactor Shoppe says:
CONSUME! Love us? We've got swag. Shits, Mugs, Thongs.
So I click the link. But I have noticed that in the Ye Olde LitReactor Shoppe, there are no thongs.
Seriously, what the hell?
Brandon
from KCMO is reading Made to BreakMarch 10, 2013 - 5:39pm
So here's my question: how many essays on this site come from a non-Western, non Judeo-Chrstian viewpoint about writing, craft, genre, and Literature?
Do you really think we have that information? Do you honestly think we have some kind of Excel spreadsheet in which every contributor and columnist is broken down by race, religion, gender, sexual orientation? Is this something you'd like us to whip up for you?
And is it true that the benefit of a more diverse view of writing isn't, well, beneficial to a community of writers?
Text is color-blind. If the column, essay, review, or whatever is helpful to me, I don't give a shit what the person's background is. It doesn't matter. I'm the same way when it comes to the person who does my taxes or fixes my car or sells me electronics.
Culturally-diverse doesn't translate to an improvement or inpairment to the craft of writing. Hell, color doesn't even guarantee culture. Like, we could hire an Indian guy, but what if the Indian guy grew up in Mobile, Alabama? Are we to say, "Oh, you're not Indian Indian. We need you to worship a multi-armed diety for you to truly qualify as Indian."
Yet again, the people hired here are hired on merit. You want to turn it into a race thing under the premise that it MIGHT make content better somehow. I disagree. All the other members disagree.
Again, no one is stopping you from doing this yourself on your own site.
Universally panned doesn't make it objectively wrong, just that there's widespread disagreement. Which I acknowledge, there's widespread disagreement to the idea.
A solution was offered, and it's been rejected.
To offer a solution implies that there's a problem in need of fixing. The only one that sees a problem is you, Todd. You made up the problem but no one else sees it, so the problem is specific to you. That might explain why everyone disagrees with you.
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigMarch 10, 2013 - 5:49pm
I'm basically out of things to say. I went from thinking this was odd, to thinking it was funny, to being generally offended.
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryMarch 10, 2013 - 6:24pm
I wasn't going to post on this thread again, but then I saw that Phil posted after like a 15 year hiatus, so I'll break my silence to say:
Phil! What's up man? Good to see you.
Okay, everybody, as you were.
Fylh
from from from is reading is from is reading is reading is reading reading is readingMarch 10, 2013 - 6:29pm
Hey man. I'm in Boston right now. I fly back out tomorrow — I was promoting the press here.
I'm good in general. I haven't posted much at all because I've tried to limit my online time as much as possible. I have writing deadlines...
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryMarch 10, 2013 - 6:35pm
Word. Well, good to see you. Hope you're enjoying Boston. See you at the Star Wars VII release party.
Strange Photon
from Fort Wayne, IN is reading Laurie Anderson lyricsMarch 10, 2013 - 6:35pm
Courtney, you're going to make me blush. That is, unless you weren't referring to me at all, in which case, you're going to make me gouge out my eyeballs with dull rusty soup spoons.
Hell, I might just do that anyway if Todd doesn't stop ignoring the most valid responses on this entire thread and continues to simply repackage his Tickle-Me Nazi doll of an argument in the hopes that shiny new colors on the box will trick the consumer into believing it's not just the same old assertion from the very start. An assertion which has been shot so full of holes I hear it whistling every time the wind blows.
If you're real quiet, you can still hear his doll/argument, the batteries never seem to die.
Hehehehe, that tickles that's racist...
jyh
from VA is reading whatever he feels likeMarch 10, 2013 - 9:00pm
[Even though I shudder to think that I can't unsubscribe from this once I post, I'm going to make an attempt at some good ol' middle-ground, not because I feel there is much at stake, but because I like sticking my nose into internet businesses. I'm really friendly.]
Did LitReactor ever make any claim(s) to "universality" or even "maximum diversity?"
I don't honestly know. If they did, or do, then I can imagine it might seem out-of-sorts to have 93% of the team be white, even if there were (white) LGBTs and (white) women.
Could LitReactor cultivate a more broad-based array of backgrounds from which its opinions and activities would issue? Like basically every other business or website: yes, of course it could. Would doing so enlarge their potential audience and customer-base? Maybe, depending on the marketing and what-not. But, like people have said, being X-ethnicity doesn't automatically mean you believe or feel any particular thing.
Is Todd a racist / does Todd actually think LitReactor is a racist organization? Doesn't seem that way to me.
Is there anything to be angry about? Regarding this thread, I'd say no.
Todd Sullivan
from America is reading Workshop fictionMarch 10, 2013 - 9:04pm
To piggy back off Dwayne, why not suggest some books, as well. I'd say the majority of us would be willing to read them. Personally, I enjoy noir/mystery. Maybe you know some authors you could suggest.
fport
from Canada is reading The World Until Yesterday - Jared DiamondMarch 10, 2013 - 9:33pm
Wow, go away a few days and look what you kids have gotten up to. My god, what next, pointing out the lack of practicing scientologists in the melee of the litreactor cultural pogrom? If you need an ethnicity like black it may not be here but it is definitely out there if you find a need clawing inside your belly trying to get fed.
I do believe the current state of lit is derived from whence it originated which is not to be confused with where it might go depending on what it offers or grows into. I'm here to scratch an itch. I pay for that service as well so that it might continue on into the future. I know lit cannot be all things to all people but then again that's also not its responsibility.
I remember getting a heads up about some issue that was no longer debated here as everyone had already made up their minds and taken a side. I was wounded by that. Geeze talk about close minded I thought to myself. With time this simply blended into my overall understanding of lit and its denizens. Now I see a three day old thread with over two hundred posts over a non issue. A complete non issue. There is no discrimination at the door. There is no segregation built in. This site is about writing, learning, practicing, discussing and participating.
That's my $9 bucks worth. Take it for what it is.
Mess_Jess
from Sydney, Australia, living in Toronto, Canada is reading Perfect by Rachael JoyceMarch 10, 2013 - 10:02pm
Now I see a three day old thread with over two hundred posts over a non issue. A complete non issue. There is no discrimination at the door. There is no segregation built in. This site is about writing, learning, practicing, discussing and participating.
Probably the best thing you've written on here, fport.
Courtney
from the Midwest is reading Monkey: A Journey to the West and a thousand college textbooksMarch 10, 2013 - 11:48pm
Wouldn't it be incredibly demeaning for those who respond to a request for non-white writers? That isn't even affirmative action, that's just plain derogatory. It would literally be saying, "You are only being hired because you're 'of color.' We didn't like what you wrote, or pick you out of a wide array of applicants -- you responded to a request for people of a different culture, and we picked you specifically because of that reason." That isn't a solution. That's an entirely new problem, and one that would make me leave LitReactor and never look back.
And I was definitely referring to you, Strange. <3 Everything you say makes me so happy! Even when you admit to being a semi-fascist. Even that makes me happy, because at least you admit it.
Todd Sullivan
from America is reading Workshop fictionMarch 11, 2013 - 1:44am
Did LitReactor ever make any claim(s) to "universality" or even "maximum diversity?"
I don't honestly know. If they did, or do, then I can imagine it might seem out-of-sorts to have 93% of the team be white, even if there were (white) LGBTs and (white) women.
Could LitReactor cultivate a more broad-based array of backgrounds from which its opinions and activities would issue? Like basically every other business or website: yes, of course it could. Would doing so enlarge their potential audience and customer-base? Maybe, depending on the marketing and what-not. But, like people have said, being X-ethnicity doesn't automatically mean you believe or feel any particular thing.
Though I originally expected some disagreement in the thread, I also thought I'd get comments more along the lines of this. I was reluctant to point what you said out as I didn't want to create an "Us vs. Them" dynamic, but then I also noticed that people posting after your response didn't respond to it.
Cath Murphy
from UK is reading Find out on the Unpr!ntable podcastMarch 11, 2013 - 2:54am
So I click the link. But I have noticed that in the Ye Olde LitReactor Shoppe, there are no thongs.
Seriously, what the hell?
I *know* Bekanator - I'm thinking of suing the site for misrepresentation.
Or maybe Josh bought them all.
Strange Photon
from Fort Wayne, IN is reading Laurie Anderson lyricsMarch 11, 2013 - 4:36am
Ah, so you remember that, do you, Courtney?
Make one little fascist comment and people never let you live it down. Ok, so two fasicst remarks... well, maybe 4-6. Ok, ok, ok, a couple dozen, geesh!
Oh, and those who don't respond to previous logical and well-worded posts shouldn't... throw stones?
Todd Sullivan
from America is reading Workshop fictionMarch 11, 2013 - 5:14am
Oh, and those who don't respond to previous logical and well-worded posts shouldn't... throw stones?
The implication here, I think, is that you believe J.Y.'s post to be logical and well-worded. However, the implication of that isn't agreement, it's just that you believe it's logical and well-worded. People disagree with logical and well-worded statements all the time, so what I have to ask is if you agree with him/her or not?
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedMarch 11, 2013 - 5:15am
You guys keep saying 'fascist' like it is a bad thing.
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestMarch 11, 2013 - 5:46am
logical and well-worded posts
- My vote goes to Fylh.
Bekanator
from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay HunterMarch 11, 2013 - 6:19am
Or maybe Josh bought them all.
If he did, then they'd still be thongs. They'd just be sold out.
I mean, really.
Strange Photon
from Fort Wayne, IN is reading Laurie Anderson lyricsMarch 11, 2013 - 6:41am
I know, Dwayne.
I, for one, think the term gets a bad rap!
Todd Sullivan
from America is reading Workshop fictionMarch 11, 2013 - 7:39am
I take it by your silence that you guys have been put in a difficult spot. I don't know if J.Y. did this on purpose, but I have a feeling that a lot of your are cursing him behind his back, or in front your screen, or however such phrasing should be worded.
I think to say that this has been a waste of time would be disingenuous, unless all you people simply enjoy wasting your time. I started this thread knowing how it could form, but I started it anyway out of a genuine sense that there's something crucial missing here. I mean, look, I've only been here a couple of months, but I'm already 45th out of 425 members on the point leadership board. I don't feel like I have to defend myself to so many people of why I'm here, especially those who probably haven't actually put as much effort into trying to give honest feedback to people's writing in this community as I have.
Throughout this discussion, people have kept pushing me for a solution, though of course that was also disingenuous because as soon as I offered a feasible one, everyone except that one guy claimed it would simply be impossible, immoral, illegal, insulting...think of a word starting with an 'i', and it was probably used to describe this idea that's actually quite practical and potentially quite enlightening to the community as a whole.
But okay. Many people have called for this thread to end. I think most of them are somewhat like the ones who complain about people holding up traffic ahead of them looking at an accident, but as soon as they get there they also rubber neck to see. But either way, okay, if it's so offensive, let's end it. Go back to talking about your favorite Netflix movies, or Whoring your writing thread, or whatever that's more palatable to digest in this forum.
Brandon
from KCMO is reading Made to BreakMarch 11, 2013 - 8:51am
I take it by your silence that you guys have been put in a difficult spot. I don't know if J.Y. did this on purpose, but I have a feeling that a lot of your are cursing him behind his back, or in front your screen, or however such phrasing should be worded.
Hardly.
There are plenty of questions people are asking you that you've choosen to ignore. Remeber this:
Do you honestly think we have some kind of Excel spreadsheet in which every contributor and columnist is broken down by race, religion, gender, sexual orientation? Is this something you'd like us to whip up for you?
I wasn't asking rhetorically. I'm trying to gauge exactly how transparent the staff needs to be about their background to meet your standards. At this point, you might as well straight up tell everyone what you want.
I mean, look, I've only been here a couple of months, but I'm already 45th out of 425 members on the point leadership board. I don't feel like I have to defend myself to so many people of why I'm here, especially those who probably haven't actually put as much effort into trying to give honest feedback to people's writing in this community as I have.
Hey man, you're the one that started the thread and pitched the idea. You're the one that wants us to change how we hire our staff members. But you don't feel like you have to defend the idea that you yourself put out there?? Oh, and then you go as far as to bring the points leaderboard into it? I'm 15th on there. If we're going to define weight of opinion by the points leaderboard, I'd think twice about that.
But okay. Many people have called for this thread to end. I think most of them are somewhat like the ones who complain about people holding up traffic ahead of them looking at an accident, but as soon as they get there they also rubber neck to see. But either way, okay, if it's so offensive, let's end it. Go back to talking about your favorite Netflix movies, or Whoring your writing thread, or whatever that's more palatable to digest in this forum.
Todd, this is a classic pot-stirring thread. It would have turned out the same if you requested we hire more people based on religion, income bracket, or whatever else. You can't compare a racially-charged thread to the Netflix thread. You're pouting because everything went the exact opposite of how you wanted it to. Move on, dude.
Strange Photon
from Fort Wayne, IN is reading Laurie Anderson lyricsMarch 11, 2013 - 9:08am
Actually, little Toddy-poo-poo, I wasn't put in any spot whatsoever, I was simply trying to see the world from your perspective. You know, the one where I ignore other people's points regardless of their validity or lack thereof.
Childish, I know, but hey, not all of us can be as enlightened as we ought to be.
As far as J.Y. goes, I think you missed his point entirely, because if you hadn't, you'd realize he wasn't taking up your mantle. He wasn't even truly agreeing with you at the core, but simply posing hypotheticals constructed on the fragile assumption that you meant what you said, and what you said had validity. I could be entirely wrong, but I have a feeling everyone else took his comments the same way I did - which is why none of us stomped our feet and shook our fists at him.
After reading your words closely through this entire thread, I have come to realize you ought to put pen and paper away and run for office. You've got a knack for selecting individual clauses within a text and twisting them to meet virtually any ends you wish them to at the time. This is a wonderful skill to have in politics, but in an online writing community, it just shows you to be 'disingenuous' in virtually everything you say and claim to believe. I LOVE honest and open discourse, but when it becomes clear the person at the other podium isn't here to debate a real issue sincerely and in good faith, I just smile, nod my head and chuckle at the humor of it all.
Before you sit at your computer screen, wracking your brain for phrases within this post of mine that you can deliberately misinterpret, please, read all of my pother comments that you've ignored before this, and find segments within them to warp. If you can't read things with a sincere eye, at least read them chronologically.
Class Director
Rob
from New York City is reading at a fast enough pace it would be cumbersome to update thisMarch 11, 2013 - 10:07am
As a quick aside: I don't spend a lot of time in the discussion forums, so I never really get to express this sentiment, but for real, I love the overwhelming majority of our little internet community. You guys and gals are great.
fport
from Canada is reading The World Until Yesterday - Jared DiamondMarch 11, 2013 - 11:21am
Gee Rob, most of us already knew that.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedMarch 11, 2013 - 2:28pm
Wait, time out. I thought Strange was Rob's sock puppet.
Todd Sullivan
from America is reading Workshop fictionMarch 11, 2013 - 2:32pm
Do you honestly think we have some kind of Excel spreadsheet in which every contributor and columnist is broken down by race, religion, gender, sexual orientation? Is this something you'd like us to whip up for you?
I wasn't asking rhetorically. I'm trying to gauge exactly how transparent the staff needs to be about their background to meet your standards. At this point, you might as well straight up tell everyone what you want.
Ok. But you can't think of one contributor on the team who approached writing with a non-Western viewpoint, or a non-Judeo Christian viewpoint, or a non-Western, non-Judeo Christian viewpoint?
And also, what do you think of these two points:
Did LitReactor ever make any claim(s) to "universality" or even "maximum diversity?"
I don't honestly know. If they did, or do, then I can imagine it might seem out-of-sorts to have 93% of the team be white, even if there were (white) LGBTs and (white) women.
Could LitReactor cultivate a more broad-based array of backgrounds from which its opinions and activities would issue?
Like basically every other business or website: yes, of course it could. Would doing so enlarge their potential audience and customer-base? Maybe, depending on the marketing and what-not. But, like people have said, being X-ethnicity doesn't automatically mean you believe or feel any particular thing.
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryMarch 11, 2013 - 2:45pm
Class Director
Rob
from New York City is reading at a fast enough pace it would be cumbersome to update thisMarch 11, 2013 - 2:51pm
C'mon Dwayne, don't insult Strange like that.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedMarch 11, 2013 - 3:43pm
Fair enough. My bad.
Strange Photon
from Fort Wayne, IN is reading Laurie Anderson lyricsMarch 11, 2013 - 3:54pm
I'm not even sure how to take that, Dwayne. Though, if Rob's socks are as fucking rockstar as his hat in his profile photo, I'd be honored to be his sock puppet. However, if it means he's expecting to slip his hand up in me, that ain't gonna fly.
Brandon
from KCMO is reading Made to BreakMarch 11, 2013 - 4:51pm
Ok. But you can't think of one contributor on the team who approached writing with a non-Western viewpoint, or a non-Judeo Christian viewpoint, or a non-Western, non-Judeo Christian viewpoint?
The founder of the site. Is that high enough up the chain for you?
And also, what do you think of these two points:
Did LitReactor ever make any claim(s) to "universality" or even "maximum diversity?"
I don't honestly know. If they did, or do, then I can imagine it might seem out-of-sorts to have 93% of the team be white, even if there were (white) LGBTs and (white) women.
Could LitReactor cultivate a more broad-based array of backgrounds from which its opinions and activities would issue?
Like basically every other business or website: yes, of course it could. Would doing so enlarge their potential audience and customer-base? Maybe, depending on the marketing and what-not. But, like people have said, being X-ethnicity doesn't automatically mean you believe or feel any particular thing.
Those aren't points. That's just Jeremy playing the "what if" game. Never in that entire post does Jeremy do anything beyond speculate or ask open-ended questions. You're grasping at straws now.
Oh, I'll go ahead and ask this for a THIRD time:
Do you honestly think we have some kind of Excel spreadsheet in which every contributor and columnist is broken down by race, religion, gender, sexual orientation? Is this something you'd like us to whip up for you?
The first time it was posted you ignored it. The second time you pushed your own question again. This is what Strange is referring to when he says you're ignoring comments. You've pretty much already proven him right on that one.
Strange Photon
from Fort Wayne, IN is reading Laurie Anderson lyricsMarch 11, 2013 - 4:35pm
Hey, um... didn't I say something about J.Y. simply posing a hypothetical, or 'what if' scenario?
I could be wrong. I could have just had a stroke and somehow lost the ability to differentiate between reality and what I think reality ought to be. I could have just popped some really kick-ass shrooms and hallucinated the comment wherein I offered up the explanation that J.Y. (Jeremy) was constructing hypotheticals. I mean, I really could have, but I feel pretty damn sure I haven't done any of those things... yet.
So, with Brandon saying it, and me saying it earlier (I know it's hard to keep straight which people's posts you choose to ignore and when to ignore them only selectively) I really hope you'll abandon the USS J.Y. Is My Homey battleship.
Brandon
from KCMO is reading Made to BreakMarch 11, 2013 - 4:38pm
Oh, and Todd, this is the founder of the site directly addressing you:
Nobody in LitReactor's staff has any problem with hiring black people or any other cultural group. I would not have worked with Dennis or Kirk if I'd ever felt they were like that. They're professional, friendly, they get things done. We have gay writers, we have pieces from Stephen GJ, who is Blackfeet, and I don't doubt that we'll have a good number of black, Asian, whatever writers as time goes on. This doesn't need stating. We've been going under two years. The people on our staff list began quite literally with the people we knew around us, the people we were able to reach out to. We keep expanding and trying new things. We could "try out new minorities" but that's insulting to everyone: to us, to the people we take on, and to our members. As promising staffers come, they'll be taken on.
I couldn't help but notice you didn't reply back.
Does hearing it coming down from the top change anything or do you want to go ahead and keep beating the dead horse?
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigMarch 11, 2013 - 4:41pm
He obviously doesn't care. He wants people to hang there heads in shame and admit to being stereotypical American, white, heteronormative men. Even if they aren't.
Strange Photon
from Fort Wayne, IN is reading Laurie Anderson lyricsMarch 11, 2013 - 4:52pm
I totally agree with Renee, that's why on several occasions I mentioned my belief that it is quite possible he doesn't even believe what he is saying here, but just likes making us monkeys dance. Frankly, either possibility just makes him look sad and lonely. With the dancing monkeys possibility, we end up helping him with his loneliness.
The last thing I want to do with my life is dance, though I would love to be a monkey.
I'd like to say I am going to turn my back on this thread now and return to my writing - since that is the purpose of this site - but chances are Todd will spew something that will get the turntables spinning, the disco ball flashing, and the fat hairy apes like me dancing again. So, I won't ever say never again, but I will say pass the bananas.
Brandon
from KCMO is reading Made to BreakMarch 11, 2013 - 5:23pm
This is called Equal Opportunities and Diversity, ethics that this site ascribes to. What you have requested in previous posts in this thread is Positive Discrimination, which is completely different.
Todd, I hope you find this constructive and not dismissive. In no way do I wish to deter you from this site, quite the opposite. I, like many others, am here to improve my writing, in my own way. I am not staff, nor admin, nor even a paying workshop member. That being said, I suggest you stop now. You've made a point, argued that point, and upset a lot of people by what appears to be assuming and judging. You probably have the noblest of intentions and may have worded posts incorrectly, but you have inferred a demand which is both unethical and unrealistic. The staff of this site are here by qualification, not ethnicity. How many of them are mentally or physically disabled? How many religions are represented? How many are heterosexual, homosexual, transgender, or bisexual? Ultimately your desire for fair representation needs to extend universally, otherwise you are as prejudiced as you claim the founders of this site to be. The point is that all backgrounds are represented as no one here discriminates whatsoever. All are welcome, from free members to core staff. The positions of staff are offered on merit, based on writing ability and reputation, not by positive discrimination.
I wish you the best of luck in the future, and hope you can now draw this thread to a close.
No offense, but I get the sense from this answer that you *purposely* misread what I said. Again, I don't mean to be snarky, especially since you're in the position to actually make a suggestion to those behind the scenes, but the quote of mine you posted. How can you break it down to read that being non-white automatically makes you more critical of literature?
Dude, because you said:
Why is it Brandon's responsibility to make a suggestion to those behind the scenes?
I think the confusion spawns from your sentence structure Todd, and using the universal 2nd person point of view.
I think what you (Todd) meant is that we all (writers, readers, and people in general) would benefit by reading stories, collumns, and articles written by people with cultural differences. That we would benefit by exposing ourself to cultural diversity. I can't entirely disagree with that sentiment if that is in fact what you meant. You weren't very clear. But with all that said, I think LitReactor does exactly that already, and you're too close minded to see it.
This is what you said:
You use the term "culturally different prism" (which I can only assume translates to ethnicity) and how that allows them to be "more critical of literature itself" and then you extend on that by stating it allows "a greater understanding of the art you endeavor in."
So unless my understanding of "culturally different prism" doesn't translate to ethnicity/race, then no, I didn't read it wrong.
By the way, Todd, we're now on the fifth page of this thread. It's not even a debate. It's everyone disagreeing with your affirmative action idea. The people that run the site are more than willing to entertain the ideas pitched by its members, but as you can clearly see, you're getting no support here. I've been on the forums a long time, man...I've seen a lot of ideas pitched. This is probably the most universally-panned idea I've seen in four years.
I'll tell you one thing about the suggestion process...when I do it, you can bet your ass the reasoning extends far beyond "let's just try it to see what happens."
Yes.
As originally stated:
The 'you' was replaced with 'them'.
Again, this is kind of a mistreatment of what I said:
Especially since you're in the position, not especially since it's your responsibility. Being in a position to do something doesn't mean that one must do it, it just means that one *could* do it if one so chose. And obviously, the choice is not too.
Ok.
Universally panned doesn't make it objectively wrong, just that there's widespread disagreement. Which I acknowledge, there's widespread disagreement to the idea.
A solution was offered, and it's been rejected.
I don't know Brandon, " just see what happens" seems like a great philosophy for a bussiness to have...
@Todd - If you really don't see how your post caused people to think you meant race adds a certain positive element you other wise can't/are unlikely to get, you came to the right site. Start with being clear, because your writing is not clear.
As I understand it, and I'm not lawyer, Title VII of the 1964 Civil rights act (as it stands amended) prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex and national origin. The Civil Rights Act of 1991, the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009, the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, and the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 add further limits; mostly based on disabilities.
Let me make a suggestion about advice. Avoid 'should' advice, and give 'how' advice. 'Should' is a horrible word, the bane of happiness and productivity. So many thing should be, but aren't. Give 'how' advice. Suggest a minority writer (specific) you'd like to see teach a class. Suggest putting add up on the web site of a the English department of a historically minority college you think has put out a lot of great writers. Ask for a review of Indian writers who write in English because is their language de Francia. Or almost anything as long as it is an actionable plan, just get specific. Even after all this disagreement the community would probably get behind a good plan, just stop vaguely implying we are all racists.
By the by, two lines from this essay somewhat goes to my point of the benefits of wider cultural diversity on the LitReactor team.
The author admits to the very idea of which this essay is about is derived from the "industrialized West", which is actually only a small part of the world's viewpoint.
And secondly:
He also seems to be basing his idea of trangressive on Judeo-Christian values, of which a large portion of the world isn't.
So here's my question: how many essays on this site come from a non-Western, non Judeo-Chrstian viewpoint about writing, craft, genre, and Literature? And is it true that the benefit of a more diverse view of writing isn't, well, beneficial to a community of writers?
To piggy back off Dwayne, why not suggest some books, as well. I'd say the majority of us would be willing to read them. Personally, I enjoy noir/mystery. Maybe you know some authors you could suggest.
I love Strange so much. (Read that without the capitalization and you get a way different view of me.)
I was going to write out a response to the fact that Todd made more sweeping generalizations after not reading Clevenger's essay, but instead, I'm going to look at writing prompts so I can actually do something productive and worthwhile.
"A solution was offered, and it's been rejected."
Man, you are not being heroic. This entire thread gives me a bad taste, not because of its intention — I can't figure out exactly what you want — but because of the way you're going about this.
Look at how you start this conversation.
Oh, it's going to be a narrative. Who is this person the poster is referring to?
Now I understand the hero's motivation. He doesn't usually do this, guys. This is an incidental finding; like any other Scooby Doo, he just stumbles on a great conspiracy one fine blue day.
And now, our brave detective builds up a bit of suspense in a single-sentence paragraph.
And LitReactor woulda got away wid it too, if it weren't for you pesky kids!
I'm doing this because that's the basic feeling of discomfort I get from reading these posts. "I'll frame this in a sensitive way, but man, I'm going to stand up for what's right, I guess, and I'll phrase things in such a way that no matter what happens, I can be accused of being a drama enabler, but never quite proven to be it."
Nobody in LitReactor's staff has any problem with hiring black people or any other cultural group. I would not have worked with Dennis or Kirk if I'd ever felt they were like that. They're professional, friendly, they get things done. We have gay writers, we have pieces from Stephen GJ, who is Blackfeet, and I don't doubt that we'll have a good number of black, Asian, whatever writers as time goes on. This doesn't need stating.
We've been going under two years. The people on our staff list began quite literally with the people we knew around us, the people we were able to reach out to. We keep expanding and trying new things. We could "try out new minorities" but that's insulting to everyone: to us, to the people we take on, and to our members. As promising staffers come, they'll be taken on.
Something I've noticed on LitReactor is on the main page. The photo at the bottom that links to the Ye Olde LitReactor Shoppe says:
So I click the link. But I have noticed that in the Ye Olde LitReactor Shoppe, there are no thongs.
Seriously, what the hell?
Do you really think we have that information? Do you honestly think we have some kind of Excel spreadsheet in which every contributor and columnist is broken down by race, religion, gender, sexual orientation? Is this something you'd like us to whip up for you?
Text is color-blind. If the column, essay, review, or whatever is helpful to me, I don't give a shit what the person's background is. It doesn't matter. I'm the same way when it comes to the person who does my taxes or fixes my car or sells me electronics.
Culturally-diverse doesn't translate to an improvement or inpairment to the craft of writing. Hell, color doesn't even guarantee culture. Like, we could hire an Indian guy, but what if the Indian guy grew up in Mobile, Alabama? Are we to say, "Oh, you're not Indian Indian. We need you to worship a multi-armed diety for you to truly qualify as Indian."
Yet again, the people hired here are hired on merit. You want to turn it into a race thing under the premise that it MIGHT make content better somehow. I disagree. All the other members disagree.
Again, no one is stopping you from doing this yourself on your own site.
To offer a solution implies that there's a problem in need of fixing. The only one that sees a problem is you, Todd. You made up the problem but no one else sees it, so the problem is specific to you. That might explain why everyone disagrees with you.
I'm basically out of things to say. I went from thinking this was odd, to thinking it was funny, to being generally offended.
I wasn't going to post on this thread again, but then I saw that Phil posted after like a 15 year hiatus, so I'll break my silence to say:
Phil! What's up man? Good to see you.
Okay, everybody, as you were.
Hey man. I'm in Boston right now. I fly back out tomorrow — I was promoting the press here.
I'm good in general. I haven't posted much at all because I've tried to limit my online time as much as possible. I have writing deadlines...
Word. Well, good to see you. Hope you're enjoying Boston. See you at the Star Wars VII release party.
Courtney, you're going to make me blush. That is, unless you weren't referring to me at all, in which case, you're going to make me gouge out my eyeballs with dull rusty soup spoons.
Hell, I might just do that anyway if Todd doesn't stop ignoring the most valid responses on this entire thread and continues to simply repackage his Tickle-Me Nazi doll of an argument in the hopes that shiny new colors on the box will trick the consumer into believing it's not just the same old assertion from the very start. An assertion which has been shot so full of holes I hear it whistling every time the wind blows.
If you're real quiet, you can still hear his doll/argument, the batteries never seem to die.
Hehehehe,
that ticklesthat's racist...[Even though I shudder to think that I can't unsubscribe from this once I post, I'm going to make an attempt at some good ol' middle-ground, not because I feel there is much at stake, but because I like sticking my nose into internet businesses. I'm really friendly.]
Did LitReactor ever make any claim(s) to "universality" or even "maximum diversity?"
I don't honestly know. If they did, or do, then I can imagine it might seem out-of-sorts to have 93% of the team be white, even if there were (white) LGBTs and (white) women.
Could LitReactor cultivate a more broad-based array of backgrounds from which its opinions and activities would issue? Like basically every other business or website: yes, of course it could. Would doing so enlarge their potential audience and customer-base? Maybe, depending on the marketing and what-not. But, like people have said, being X-ethnicity doesn't automatically mean you believe or feel any particular thing.
Is Todd a racist / does Todd actually think LitReactor is a racist organization? Doesn't seem that way to me.
Is there anything to be angry about? Regarding this thread, I'd say no.
Paolo Bacigalupi's "Windup Girl" - http://www.amazon.com/Windup-Girl-Paolo-Bacigalupi/dp/1597801585
Walter Mosley's "Blue Light": http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Light-Walter-Mosley/dp/0316570982
Vernor Vinge's "A Fire Upon the Deep" http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Upon-Deep-Zones-Thought/dp/0765329824/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1362974379&sr=1-1&keywords=a+fire+upon+the+deep
Randal Kenan's "A Visitation of Spirits: http://www.amazon.com/A-Visitation-Spirits-Novel/dp/0375703977/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1362974189&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=a+visitaion+of+spirits
Jewelle Gomez's "The Gilda Stories" http://www.amazon.com/Gilda-Stories-Jewelle-Gomez/dp/1563411407
Jorge Luis Borges "Collected Stories" http://www.amazon.com/Collected-Fictions-Jorge-Luis-Borges/dp/0140286802
Salman Rushdie's "Midnight's Children" http://www.amazon.com/Midnights-Children-Novel-Salman-Rushdie/dp/0812976533
Wow, go away a few days and look what you kids have gotten up to. My god, what next, pointing out the lack of practicing scientologists in the melee of the litreactor cultural pogrom? If you need an ethnicity like black it may not be here but it is definitely out there if you find a need clawing inside your belly trying to get fed.
I do believe the current state of lit is derived from whence it originated which is not to be confused with where it might go depending on what it offers or grows into. I'm here to scratch an itch. I pay for that service as well so that it might continue on into the future. I know lit cannot be all things to all people but then again that's also not its responsibility.
I remember getting a heads up about some issue that was no longer debated here as everyone had already made up their minds and taken a side. I was wounded by that. Geeze talk about close minded I thought to myself. With time this simply blended into my overall understanding of lit and its denizens. Now I see a three day old thread with over two hundred posts over a non issue. A complete non issue. There is no discrimination at the door. There is no segregation built in. This site is about writing, learning, practicing, discussing and participating.
That's my $9 bucks worth. Take it for what it is.
Probably the best thing you've written on here, fport.
Wouldn't it be incredibly demeaning for those who respond to a request for non-white writers? That isn't even affirmative action, that's just plain derogatory. It would literally be saying, "You are only being hired because you're 'of color.' We didn't like what you wrote, or pick you out of a wide array of applicants -- you responded to a request for people of a different culture, and we picked you specifically because of that reason." That isn't a solution. That's an entirely new problem, and one that would make me leave LitReactor and never look back.
And I was definitely referring to you, Strange. <3 Everything you say makes me so happy! Even when you admit to being a semi-fascist. Even that makes me happy, because at least you admit it.
Though I originally expected some disagreement in the thread, I also thought I'd get comments more along the lines of this. I was reluctant to point what you said out as I didn't want to create an "Us vs. Them" dynamic, but then I also noticed that people posting after your response didn't respond to it.
I *know* Bekanator - I'm thinking of suing the site for misrepresentation.
Or maybe Josh bought them all.
Ah, so you remember that, do you, Courtney?
Make one little fascist comment and people never let you live it down. Ok, so two fasicst remarks... well, maybe 4-6. Ok, ok, ok, a couple dozen, geesh!
Oh, and those who don't respond to previous logical and well-worded posts shouldn't... throw stones?
The implication here, I think, is that you believe J.Y.'s post to be logical and well-worded. However, the implication of that isn't agreement, it's just that you believe it's logical and well-worded. People disagree with logical and well-worded statements all the time, so what I have to ask is if you agree with him/her or not?
You guys keep saying 'fascist' like it is a bad thing.
- My vote goes to Fylh.
If he did, then they'd still be thongs. They'd just be sold out.
I mean, really.
I know, Dwayne.
I, for one, think the term gets a bad rap!
I take it by your silence that you guys have been put in a difficult spot. I don't know if J.Y. did this on purpose, but I have a feeling that a lot of your are cursing him behind his back, or in front your screen, or however such phrasing should be worded.
I think to say that this has been a waste of time would be disingenuous, unless all you people simply enjoy wasting your time. I started this thread knowing how it could form, but I started it anyway out of a genuine sense that there's something crucial missing here. I mean, look, I've only been here a couple of months, but I'm already 45th out of 425 members on the point leadership board. I don't feel like I have to defend myself to so many people of why I'm here, especially those who probably haven't actually put as much effort into trying to give honest feedback to people's writing in this community as I have.
Throughout this discussion, people have kept pushing me for a solution, though of course that was also disingenuous because as soon as I offered a feasible one, everyone except that one guy claimed it would simply be impossible, immoral, illegal, insulting...think of a word starting with an 'i', and it was probably used to describe this idea that's actually quite practical and potentially quite enlightening to the community as a whole.
But okay. Many people have called for this thread to end. I think most of them are somewhat like the ones who complain about people holding up traffic ahead of them looking at an accident, but as soon as they get there they also rubber neck to see. But either way, okay, if it's so offensive, let's end it. Go back to talking about your favorite Netflix movies, or Whoring your writing thread, or whatever that's more palatable to digest in this forum.
Hardly.
There are plenty of questions people are asking you that you've choosen to ignore. Remeber this:
I wasn't asking rhetorically. I'm trying to gauge exactly how transparent the staff needs to be about their background to meet your standards. At this point, you might as well straight up tell everyone what you want.
Hey man, you're the one that started the thread and pitched the idea. You're the one that wants us to change how we hire our staff members. But you don't feel like you have to defend the idea that you yourself put out there?? Oh, and then you go as far as to bring the points leaderboard into it? I'm 15th on there. If we're going to define weight of opinion by the points leaderboard, I'd think twice about that.
Todd, this is a classic pot-stirring thread. It would have turned out the same if you requested we hire more people based on religion, income bracket, or whatever else. You can't compare a racially-charged thread to the Netflix thread. You're pouting because everything went the exact opposite of how you wanted it to. Move on, dude.
Actually, little Toddy-poo-poo, I wasn't put in any spot whatsoever, I was simply trying to see the world from your perspective. You know, the one where I ignore other people's points regardless of their validity or lack thereof.
Childish, I know, but hey, not all of us can be as enlightened as we ought to be.
As far as J.Y. goes, I think you missed his point entirely, because if you hadn't, you'd realize he wasn't taking up your mantle. He wasn't even truly agreeing with you at the core, but simply posing hypotheticals constructed on the fragile assumption that you meant what you said, and what you said had validity. I could be entirely wrong, but I have a feeling everyone else took his comments the same way I did - which is why none of us stomped our feet and shook our fists at him.
After reading your words closely through this entire thread, I have come to realize you ought to put pen and paper away and run for office. You've got a knack for selecting individual clauses within a text and twisting them to meet virtually any ends you wish them to at the time. This is a wonderful skill to have in politics, but in an online writing community, it just shows you to be 'disingenuous' in virtually everything you say and claim to believe. I LOVE honest and open discourse, but when it becomes clear the person at the other podium isn't here to debate a real issue sincerely and in good faith, I just smile, nod my head and chuckle at the humor of it all.
Before you sit at your computer screen, wracking your brain for phrases within this post of mine that you can deliberately misinterpret, please, read all of my pother comments that you've ignored before this, and find segments within them to warp. If you can't read things with a sincere eye, at least read them chronologically.
As a quick aside: I don't spend a lot of time in the discussion forums, so I never really get to express this sentiment, but for real, I love the overwhelming majority of our little internet community. You guys and gals are great.
Gee Rob, most of us already knew that.
Wait, time out. I thought Strange was Rob's sock puppet.
Ok. But you can't think of one contributor on the team who approached writing with a non-Western viewpoint, or a non-Judeo Christian viewpoint, or a non-Western, non-Judeo Christian viewpoint?
And also, what do you think of these two points:
C'mon Dwayne, don't insult Strange like that.
Fair enough. My bad.
I'm not even sure how to take that, Dwayne. Though, if Rob's socks are as fucking rockstar as his hat in his profile photo, I'd be honored to be his sock puppet. However, if it means he's expecting to slip his hand up in me, that ain't gonna fly.
The founder of the site. Is that high enough up the chain for you?
Did LitReactor ever make any claim(s) to "universality" or even "maximum diversity?"
I don't honestly know. If they did, or do, then I can imagine it might seem out-of-sorts to have 93% of the team be white, even if there were (white) LGBTs and (white) women.
Could LitReactor cultivate a more broad-based array of backgrounds from which its opinions and activities would issue?
Like basically every other business or website: yes, of course it could. Would doing so enlarge their potential audience and customer-base? Maybe, depending on the marketing and what-not. But, like people have said, being X-ethnicity doesn't automatically mean you believe or feel any particular thing.
Those aren't points. That's just Jeremy playing the "what if" game. Never in that entire post does Jeremy do anything beyond speculate or ask open-ended questions. You're grasping at straws now.
Oh, I'll go ahead and ask this for a THIRD time:
The first time it was posted you ignored it. The second time you pushed your own question again. This is what Strange is referring to when he says you're ignoring comments. You've pretty much already proven him right on that one.
Hey, um... didn't I say something about J.Y. simply posing a hypothetical, or 'what if' scenario?
I could be wrong. I could have just had a stroke and somehow lost the ability to differentiate between reality and what I think reality ought to be. I could have just popped some really kick-ass shrooms and hallucinated the comment wherein I offered up the explanation that J.Y. (Jeremy) was constructing hypotheticals. I mean, I really could have, but I feel pretty damn sure I haven't done any of those things... yet.
So, with Brandon saying it, and me saying it earlier (I know it's hard to keep straight which people's posts you choose to ignore and when to ignore them only selectively) I really hope you'll abandon the USS J.Y. Is My Homey battleship.
Oh, and Todd, this is the founder of the site directly addressing you:
I couldn't help but notice you didn't reply back.
Does hearing it coming down from the top change anything or do you want to go ahead and keep beating the dead horse?
He obviously doesn't care. He wants people to hang there heads in shame and admit to being stereotypical American, white, heteronormative men. Even if they aren't.
I totally agree with Renee, that's why on several occasions I mentioned my belief that it is quite possible he doesn't even believe what he is saying here, but just likes making us monkeys dance. Frankly, either possibility just makes him look sad and lonely. With the dancing monkeys possibility, we end up helping him with his loneliness.
The last thing I want to do with my life is dance, though I would love to be a monkey.
I'd like to say I am going to turn my back on this thread now and return to my writing - since that is the purpose of this site - but chances are Todd will spew something that will get the turntables spinning, the disco ball flashing, and the fat hairy apes like me dancing again. So, I won't ever say never again, but I will say pass the bananas.
I'm gonna keep going until it hits ten pages.