SRead
from Colorado is reading StoriesOctober 10, 2013 - 5:44pm
I like the idea of NaNoWriMo, and I think it's a great tool, if you use it right. I mean, I don't think there's a wrong way to write as much as you can every day, but I do have some friends who do NaNo every time--April, July, and November--and they just keep writing more and more manuscripts and never look at them again. Which is fine, if you need a stack of manuscripts to reach the top shelf, or if you're just writing for a lark--but if your goal is publication...
Anyway. I wrote my novel in April's NaNo, and I'm working on the edits. And I really like it! It needs a lot of work, but it's work that excites me. It also helped train me into a more productive writing schedule. I fall on the "pro" side of the NaNo debate. But I won't participate in it again until the WIP one is ready to start shopping.
Wendy Hammer
from Indiana is reading One Night in SixesOctober 10, 2013 - 8:40pm
I'm a bit conflicted about NaNo. I support it, but I'm usually a NaNo rebel.
I think that getting a little distance from a brutal inner editor can free you up and let you get that draft moving. It can help establish routine. However, I've never been able to relax enough to just throw in random snippets or add a giant robot battle just because I need words for my word count. When I see that kind of strategy, it starts to feel like a waste of time---until I talk to people all caught up in the joy of writing. There's a beautiful kind of enthusiasm in NaNo. It's fun.
The first year I participated I got about 20,000 words in and quit. I let the manuscript sit and then picked it up again the next November (rebel). I added 50,000 more and kept going. It's gone through a few revision passes and is now complete at around 97,000. Now...whether or not it ever sees the light of day is another question.
I don't know that I'll do NaNo again. I'm getting ready to start the next novel-length piece, but I think I know my routine now. NaNo was a great push and I found my current meatspace writing group because of it. Bonus!
Nathan Scalia
from Kansas is reading so many thingsOctober 14, 2013 - 8:35pm
I've signed up, but given that I have already written a couple of chapters and have no intention of stopping it just to fulfill the rules of a contest where the prize for winning is your finished novel, then I can't officially "win" this. But I've still planned to finish it by the end of November along with everyone else.
And I'm handwriting the whole thing, so I'll need time to transcribe everything to computer for the word count verification. So perhaps they won't think I'm cheating. Whatever.
Julie_Smits
from Antwerp is reading StuffOctober 15, 2013 - 2:46am
Hey Nathan,
There's a rebel page in the forum for people who want to do it a bit differently. Which at first I thought I was going to do, but I've decided to work on a novel straight up. I have some ideas for it and some 700 words, where I experimented with the atmosphere for my novel.
The goal however is to write 50000 new words in november, so I don't think it would be right if you just transcribed the words you already have and the ones you'll be writing in november.
There are people who write by hand as well, you count them (or someone else) and you can use this program to generate a file for you that has the same amount of words http://www.lipsum.com
Nathan Scalia
from Kansas is reading so many thingsOctober 15, 2013 - 5:12am
I should clarify that I totally intend to do 50K new words in November. I tend to be wordy, so I'm not worried about length too much.
Julie_Smits
from Antwerp is reading StuffOctober 15, 2013 - 5:55am
Consider it clarified. As a side note, I added you as a buddy.
Jack Campbell Jr.
from Lawrence, KS is reading American Rust by Phillipp MeyerOctober 15, 2013 - 7:19am
I've got two literature classes going on right now, so I am going to have about 40 pages of research paper due in early december. That being said, I am going to give 25,000 words a shot, like I did last year. I am going to work on a novella I've been meaning to get around to. My girlfriend is the municipal liason here for NaNoWriMo, so it is a pretty big deal every November. We met during Nano 2011.
L.W. Flouisa
from Tennessee is reading More MurakamiOctober 16, 2013 - 5:16pm
I decided I think I might be pushing it to even do Nano next year. I'm a pretty compulsive outliner. So I'm not sure if I'll be finished by then.D:
postpomo
from Canada is reading words words wordsOctober 17, 2013 - 9:17am
Hey y'all - this is my frist crack at NaNo, and I've been outlining, doing character sketches, backstory. Pretty excited to get down to it (deadlines make me productive).
I also just landed a new job contract for November - could be tight.
Coffee is a brewing.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedOctober 18, 2013 - 8:19am
Are you guys doing a lot of in person events? I think we have our third plan event the 26th, wasn't sure if others do that much.
Covewriter
from Nashville, Tennessee is reading & SonsOctober 18, 2013 - 12:20pm
Nashville has a kick-off party 10/31 but im not going because it is Halloween and...my birthday! Nashville hosts a get-together every Thursday at a local Panara. They have been doing it for a while. I think it is a writing group that meets anyway and just made it a NANO thing. I went last night, but it was strange. The guy to my right told me all about his civil war novel. I mean ALL about it. Nonstop. For two hours. My eyes were blurry from trying to fake interest. The five women to my left were rather young (nothing wrong with that) and mostly writing Harry Potter fan novels. (Nothing wrong with that, i dont' guess, although i had to get educated on the fan novel.) I may go back once its time to start writing. I like the social aspect, but i don't think i connected with anyone. Oh but when I hit my head on the low hanging lamp over the table as i was getting ready to leave, they all clapped and said "you hit your head -- now you're one of us." Maybe i should just go with it.
Jack Campbell Jr.
from Lawrence, KS is reading American Rust by Phillipp MeyerOctober 18, 2013 - 2:03pm
We have two brainstorming meetings on Sundays this month, the midnight kickoff, three weekly write-ins, a halfway party, and two TGIO parties. The public library is also sponsoring our group and has given us money for "survival kits" and has rented a ballroom for the halfway and TGIO party. They are also hosting a pre-Nano meet and greet where a bunch of us who have been around will give pep talks to newbies.
L.W. Flouisa
from Tennessee is reading More MurakamiOctober 18, 2013 - 4:10pm
I might at least try it. I just need to get everything in order on my map of the world though. Figuring out things like travel times.
Julie_Smits
from Antwerp is reading StuffOctober 28, 2013 - 9:02am
I ended up skipping out on NaNoWriMo in lieu of editing the story that I already have and taking another class. Figured it best to just focus on one project at a time.
Sound
from Azusa, CA is reading Greener Pastures by Michael WehuntOctober 28, 2013 - 9:14am
I'm still going to go through with it. I'm trying to finish a short story WIP before Nov 1st so my mind isn't in another world. I figure at the very least it will be a great writing exercise.
Sound
from Azusa, CA is reading Greener Pastures by Michael WehuntOctober 28, 2013 - 9:21am
@Jack: Those all seem like great motivators. Good luck!
EdVaughn
from Louisville, Ky is reading a whole bunch of different stuffOctober 30, 2013 - 6:18pm
I think I'm doing it this year. I did it in 2011 but got nowhere. It might end up being the same this year because I have no idea what I'm going to write about and it starts in a couple days.
L.W. Flouisa
from Tennessee is reading More MurakamiNovember 1, 2013 - 12:20am
I might do it this year, but I'm going to set my expectations low. Maybe hope I can get 4k in. The funny part is that used to be a small word cojnt for me.
Carly Berg
from USA is reading Story Prompts That Work by Carly Berg is now available at AmazonNovember 1, 2013 - 12:52am
I am a NaNo Rebel this year. My goal is to finish the NF book I'm working on. I need 30,000 words. Also, so far the chapters are also articles and sent out as done. I want to continue that, so it will be a hard 30,000 words, no rough draft stuff. Really, I'm thinking I'll be doing great to do 15,000 words considering, but may as well aim high.
Of course, as soon as I decide this, obligations and visitors pop up for Nov. 1-4. Then again, they are obligations and visitors that I like and want, so.
Are we posting daily word counts here? I just finished flash story on October 31 at 2 minutes 'til midnight, but I guess it would be cheating already to count it. :(
Murasaki_Ducky
from Austin is reading StardustNovember 1, 2013 - 8:34am
I only heard about NaNoWriMo last year...mid-November. Go figure! I'm on the fence as to whether I should I try it out this year. Like others have mentioned, I'm thinking I might just set a goal for getting 50k words into my WIP. If I start something else and I like it, who knows how long my current project will sit on the back burner. I've never invested as much time and energy into any other piece of writing as I have this one.
So if I'm writing a comic book story, should I count my panel descriptions as part of my 50k? They're needed for the story so that an artist knows what I want the panels to look like so...maybe? What do youz guyz and galz think?
@Carly, I think if you want to post your word count, go for it. If it's going to help you write, knowing you "have" to put out a number for others to see, than do it. I think this is about whatever gets you in the direction you think you need to be headed. And yes, I think it would be cheating to include any writing you did last night, even at 2 minutes....toooo miiiiiiidnight! (a little Iron Maiden, anyone? (; )
EdVaughn
from Louisville, Ky is reading a whole bunch of different stuffNovember 7, 2013 - 7:01pm
My Nano is not looking too good. It's the 7th and I've only got a couple thousand words, but at least I got something started. Thats something anyway.
Carly Berg
from USA is reading Story Prompts That Work by Carly Berg is now available at AmazonNovember 8, 2013 - 3:25am
Hey, where did this come from? I started a NaNo thread because I didn't see another one.
I'm a NaNo Rebel. Which is very fun to say.
P.S. And the above makes no sense since I posted on this thread on Nov. 1. I must have lost my mind. Oh well.
Covewriter
from Nashville, Tennessee is reading & SonsNovember 8, 2013 - 8:16am
Stick with it Ed. I am feeling almost the same way. It is just Nov 8 we can do it.
Sound
from Azusa, CA is reading Greener Pastures by Michael WehuntNovember 8, 2013 - 9:57am
I just finished up a project that had been taking up all of my time. It's the first draft and I think I can get it to fighting shape this weekend. Once that's out of my way, I'm going to jump into this like I had planned.
I already feel like I accomplished something, though. That writing project was pretty damn long.
EdVaughn
from Louisville, Ky is reading a whole bunch of different stuffNovember 8, 2013 - 10:21pm
@covewriter- I'm gonna try. Thanks for the encouragement. I think this weekend will be a good time to knock out some words.
L.W. Flouisa
from Tennessee is reading More MurakamiNovember 9, 2013 - 9:07pm
Something that is going to help a bunch in the editing phase in December. I wouldn't recommend actually editing as you go (or outlining if thats not your thing), but I always keep track of when things happen, so when I go back to edit, I can look up what time it happened later.
Carly Berg
from USA is reading Story Prompts That Work by Carly Berg is now available at AmazonNovember 10, 2013 - 5:26am
Okay, so I'm a NaNo Rebel, doing 30,000 to finish a NF book, Nov. 5- Dec. 5. 1,000 words per day.
So far, 4,000 words, done for Nov. 5, 6, 7, and 8. Trying to catch up today...
Michael J. Riser
from CA, TX, Japan, back to CA is reading The Tyrant - Michael Cisco, The Devil Takes You Home - Gabino IglesiasNovember 10, 2013 - 6:33am
I had to finish a short story, which I wrote in a single day yesterday at 2,200 words. Have done 6,000 this week so far. Looking to try and finish the first draft of the novel I've been working on forever. So a rebel also, I guess, though I'm really just trying to get myself back into the habit of making the writing my #1 priority. It's easy to let it slip behind school and other "important" stuff.
Carly Berg
from USA is reading Story Prompts That Work by Carly Berg is now available at AmazonNovember 10, 2013 - 11:14am
Oh, nonfiction is no fun. 1,000 more words, so I'm caught up to Nov. 9.
Carly Berg
from USA is reading Story Prompts That Work by Carly Berg is now available at AmazonNovember 10, 2013 - 1:19pm
1,000 more. And I am caught up to Nov. 10! :)
L.W. Flouisa
from Tennessee is reading More MurakamiNovember 10, 2013 - 5:17pm
I'm sort of going knowhere at the moment. I'm having to re-plot the first half, because it didn't end up lining up with going to reach corruption ruins like I was intending. (I'm doing a peculiar combination of Dreampunk, and Portal Fantasy.) -- I was originally intending it as a New Adults version of Go To Another World stories.
Covewriter
from Nashville, Tennessee is reading & SonsNovember 10, 2013 - 10:13pm
I chins now too, but I have been thinking about the story a lot and think I can turn out a lot of words when work stops being so demanding of my time.
Deets999
from Connecticut is reading Adjustment DayNovember 13, 2013 - 7:11am
It's a cool concept - will use it to spring board a stronger effort on my part to work on the novel, doubt I'll get 50K words, but it will get me to the local coffee shops more this month to get some serious pages done!
Michael J. Riser
from CA, TX, Japan, back to CA is reading The Tyrant - Michael Cisco, The Devil Takes You Home - Gabino IglesiasNovember 13, 2013 - 7:38am
No good on my end. Hit another roadblock with the novel that requires some thinking, so have been working on short stories instead. But word count's suffered. Too much else to do, I'm just exhausted. But I've been pushing to keep above 500 words a day, at least, and have had some luck even having to force it the last couple days. Hopefully rest of the week will improve.
selenem
from Ontario, Canada is reading The Cider House Rules, by John IrvingNovember 26, 2013 - 2:34pm
I tried. Too much drama going on and not enough inspiration. I'll be thrilled if I cross the ten thousand word mark!
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigNovember 26, 2013 - 3:50pm
I ended up doing it even though I said I wouldn't and hit 50k yesterday. I had done about 8k before that, and I have a ways to go before the story is told.
Cknoxwrites
from Woodland Hills, CA is reading And the Hippos Were Boiled in their TanksNovember 27, 2013 - 6:19pm
Man, I wish I would have found this 27 days ago. It would have been great to have people to comiserate with over hitting word counts. Everyone I knew who wanted to do this bailed week one for me.
I went in really prepared for my first time, with a solid frame outline to keep me on track. It seems to be doing the trick, but this month has been insanely busy and filled with needless annoyances (like getting BOTH of our cars rearended in less than a one week period).
Somehow I magically have less than 6k to go to hit the 50k mark. I have probably another 40k after that, but I was just shooting for the 50k in November mark and am sure I will pull through.
I'm not sure how I feel about this mode vs. the edit the day's prior work and then move forward method. I guess I'll see when I get to the editing stage if I found this valuable overall.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedNovember 28, 2013 - 3:22am
The search function is always a good idea, lots of obscure topics with us. I am way behind but have two days just to work on it so might be okay.
Cknoxwrites
from Woodland Hills, CA is reading And the Hippos Were Boiled in their TanksNovember 28, 2013 - 2:18pm
I had a half day yesterday so plowed through quite a bit. I'm back on track, but hope the holiday doesn't mess me up too much.
I like the idea of NaNoWriMo, and I think it's a great tool, if you use it right. I mean, I don't think there's a wrong way to write as much as you can every day, but I do have some friends who do NaNo every time--April, July, and November--and they just keep writing more and more manuscripts and never look at them again. Which is fine, if you need a stack of manuscripts to reach the top shelf, or if you're just writing for a lark--but if your goal is publication...
Anyway. I wrote my novel in April's NaNo, and I'm working on the edits. And I really like it! It needs a lot of work, but it's work that excites me. It also helped train me into a more productive writing schedule. I fall on the "pro" side of the NaNo debate. But I won't participate in it again until the WIP one is ready to start shopping.
I'm a bit conflicted about NaNo. I support it, but I'm usually a NaNo rebel.
I think that getting a little distance from a brutal inner editor can free you up and let you get that draft moving. It can help establish routine. However, I've never been able to relax enough to just throw in random snippets or add a giant robot battle just because I need words for my word count. When I see that kind of strategy, it starts to feel like a waste of time---until I talk to people all caught up in the joy of writing. There's a beautiful kind of enthusiasm in NaNo. It's fun.
The first year I participated I got about 20,000 words in and quit. I let the manuscript sit and then picked it up again the next November (rebel). I added 50,000 more and kept going. It's gone through a few revision passes and is now complete at around 97,000. Now...whether or not it ever sees the light of day is another question.
I don't know that I'll do NaNo again. I'm getting ready to start the next novel-length piece, but I think I know my routine now. NaNo was a great push and I found my current meatspace writing group because of it. Bonus!
I've signed up, but given that I have already written a couple of chapters and have no intention of stopping it just to fulfill the rules of a contest where the prize for winning is your finished novel, then I can't officially "win" this. But I've still planned to finish it by the end of November along with everyone else.
And I'm handwriting the whole thing, so I'll need time to transcribe everything to computer for the word count verification. So perhaps they won't think I'm cheating. Whatever.
https://nanowrimo.org/users/nathan-scalia
Hey Nathan,
There's a rebel page in the forum for people who want to do it a bit differently. Which at first I thought I was going to do, but I've decided to work on a novel straight up. I have some ideas for it and some 700 words, where I experimented with the atmosphere for my novel.
The goal however is to write 50000 new words in november, so I don't think it would be right if you just transcribed the words you already have and the ones you'll be writing in november.
There are people who write by hand as well, you count them (or someone else) and you can use this program to generate a file for you that has the same amount of words http://www.lipsum.com
I should clarify that I totally intend to do 50K new words in November. I tend to be wordy, so I'm not worried about length too much.
Consider it clarified. As a side note, I added you as a buddy.
I've got two literature classes going on right now, so I am going to have about 40 pages of research paper due in early december. That being said, I am going to give 25,000 words a shot, like I did last year. I am going to work on a novella I've been meaning to get around to. My girlfriend is the municipal liason here for NaNoWriMo, so it is a pretty big deal every November. We met during Nano 2011.
http://nanowrimo.org/participants/jackcampbelljr
I decided I think I might be pushing it to even do Nano next year. I'm a pretty compulsive outliner. So I'm not sure if I'll be finished by then.D:
Hey y'all - this is my frist crack at NaNo, and I've been outlining, doing character sketches, backstory. Pretty excited to get down to it (deadlines make me productive).
I also just landed a new job contract for November - could be tight.
Coffee is a brewing.
Are you guys doing a lot of in person events? I think we have our third plan event the 26th, wasn't sure if others do that much.
Nashville has a kick-off party 10/31 but im not going because it is Halloween and...my birthday! Nashville hosts a get-together every Thursday at a local Panara. They have been doing it for a while. I think it is a writing group that meets anyway and just made it a NANO thing. I went last night, but it was strange. The guy to my right told me all about his civil war novel. I mean ALL about it. Nonstop. For two hours. My eyes were blurry from trying to fake interest. The five women to my left were rather young (nothing wrong with that) and mostly writing Harry Potter fan novels. (Nothing wrong with that, i dont' guess, although i had to get educated on the fan novel.) I may go back once its time to start writing. I like the social aspect, but i don't think i connected with anyone. Oh but when I hit my head on the low hanging lamp over the table as i was getting ready to leave, they all clapped and said "you hit your head -- now you're one of us." Maybe i should just go with it.
We have two brainstorming meetings on Sundays this month, the midnight kickoff, three weekly write-ins, a halfway party, and two TGIO parties. The public library is also sponsoring our group and has given us money for "survival kits" and has rented a ballroom for the halfway and TGIO party. They are also hosting a pre-Nano meet and greet where a bunch of us who have been around will give pep talks to newbies.
I might at least try it. I just need to get everything in order on my map of the world though. Figuring out things like travel times.
I ended up skipping out on NaNoWriMo in lieu of editing the story that I already have and taking another class. Figured it best to just focus on one project at a time.
I'm still going to go through with it. I'm trying to finish a short story WIP before Nov 1st so my mind isn't in another world. I figure at the very least it will be a great writing exercise.
@Jack: Those all seem like great motivators. Good luck!
I think I'm doing it this year. I did it in 2011 but got nowhere. It might end up being the same this year because I have no idea what I'm going to write about and it starts in a couple days.
I might do it this year, but I'm going to set my expectations low. Maybe hope I can get 4k in. The funny part is that used to be a small word cojnt for me.
I am a NaNo Rebel this year. My goal is to finish the NF book I'm working on. I need 30,000 words. Also, so far the chapters are also articles and sent out as done. I want to continue that, so it will be a hard 30,000 words, no rough draft stuff. Really, I'm thinking I'll be doing great to do 15,000 words considering, but may as well aim high.
Of course, as soon as I decide this, obligations and visitors pop up for Nov. 1-4. Then again, they are obligations and visitors that I like and want, so.
Are we posting daily word counts here? I just finished flash story on October 31 at 2 minutes 'til midnight, but I guess it would be cheating already to count it. :(
I only heard about NaNoWriMo last year...mid-November. Go figure! I'm on the fence as to whether I should I try it out this year. Like others have mentioned, I'm thinking I might just set a goal for getting 50k words into my WIP. If I start something else and I like it, who knows how long my current project will sit on the back burner. I've never invested as much time and energy into any other piece of writing as I have this one.
So if I'm writing a comic book story, should I count my panel descriptions as part of my 50k? They're needed for the story so that an artist knows what I want the panels to look like so...maybe? What do youz guyz and galz think?
@Carly, I think if you want to post your word count, go for it. If it's going to help you write, knowing you "have" to put out a number for others to see, than do it. I think this is about whatever gets you in the direction you think you need to be headed. And yes, I think it would be cheating to include any writing you did last night, even at 2 minutes....toooo miiiiiiidnight! (a little Iron Maiden, anyone? (; )
My Nano is not looking too good. It's the 7th and I've only got a couple thousand words, but at least I got something started. Thats something anyway.
Hey, where did this come from? I started a NaNo thread because I didn't see another one.
I'm a NaNo Rebel. Which is very fun to say.
P.S. And the above makes no sense since I posted on this thread on Nov. 1. I must have lost my mind. Oh well.
Stick with it Ed. I am feeling almost the same way. It is just Nov 8 we can do it.
I just finished up a project that had been taking up all of my time. It's the first draft and I think I can get it to fighting shape this weekend. Once that's out of my way, I'm going to jump into this like I had planned.
I already feel like I accomplished something, though. That writing project was pretty damn long.
@covewriter- I'm gonna try. Thanks for the encouragement. I think this weekend will be a good time to knock out some words.
Something that is going to help a bunch in the editing phase in December. I wouldn't recommend actually editing as you go (or outlining if thats not your thing), but I always keep track of when things happen, so when I go back to edit, I can look up what time it happened later.
Okay, so I'm a NaNo Rebel, doing 30,000 to finish a NF book, Nov. 5- Dec. 5. 1,000 words per day.
So far, 4,000 words, done for Nov. 5, 6, 7, and 8. Trying to catch up today...
I had to finish a short story, which I wrote in a single day yesterday at 2,200 words. Have done 6,000 this week so far. Looking to try and finish the first draft of the novel I've been working on forever. So a rebel also, I guess, though I'm really just trying to get myself back into the habit of making the writing my #1 priority. It's easy to let it slip behind school and other "important" stuff.
Oh, nonfiction is no fun. 1,000 more words, so I'm caught up to Nov. 9.
1,000 more. And I am caught up to Nov. 10! :)
I'm sort of going knowhere at the moment. I'm having to re-plot the first half, because it didn't end up lining up with going to reach corruption ruins like I was intending. (I'm doing a peculiar combination of Dreampunk, and Portal Fantasy.) -- I was originally intending it as a New Adults version of Go To Another World stories.
I chins now too, but I have been thinking about the story a lot and think I can turn out a lot of words when work stops being so demanding of my time.
It's a cool concept - will use it to spring board a stronger effort on my part to work on the novel, doubt I'll get 50K words, but it will get me to the local coffee shops more this month to get some serious pages done!
No good on my end. Hit another roadblock with the novel that requires some thinking, so have been working on short stories instead. But word count's suffered. Too much else to do, I'm just exhausted. But I've been pushing to keep above 500 words a day, at least, and have had some luck even having to force it the last couple days. Hopefully rest of the week will improve.
I tried. Too much drama going on and not enough inspiration. I'll be thrilled if I cross the ten thousand word mark!
I ended up doing it even though I said I wouldn't and hit 50k yesterday. I had done about 8k before that, and I have a ways to go before the story is told.
Man, I wish I would have found this 27 days ago. It would have been great to have people to comiserate with over hitting word counts. Everyone I knew who wanted to do this bailed week one for me.
I went in really prepared for my first time, with a solid frame outline to keep me on track. It seems to be doing the trick, but this month has been insanely busy and filled with needless annoyances (like getting BOTH of our cars rearended in less than a one week period).
Somehow I magically have less than 6k to go to hit the 50k mark. I have probably another 40k after that, but I was just shooting for the 50k in November mark and am sure I will pull through.
I'm not sure how I feel about this mode vs. the edit the day's prior work and then move forward method. I guess I'll see when I get to the editing stage if I found this valuable overall.
The search function is always a good idea, lots of obscure topics with us. I am way behind but have two days just to work on it so might be okay.
I had a half day yesterday so plowed through quite a bit. I'm back on track, but hope the holiday doesn't mess me up too much.