Courtney's picture
Courtney from the Midwest is reading Monkey: A Journey to the West and a thousand college textbooks November 26, 2012 - 2:19pm

Has anyone had multiple stories published by the same publication before? Maybe two stories on one website/in one magazine, or a cross-over like a poem and a story in one?

I'm thinking of sending out a story, but I think the perfect market is one I've already been published in. Is it weird to go back if you're sure your story fits well with that magazine?

Fritz's picture
Fritz November 26, 2012 - 2:25pm

I got two at infectiveink. 

But i think professionally it looks better the more editors and publishers think u are good. All the eggs in one basket just means one editor likes you 

wickedvoodoo's picture
wickedvoodoo from Mansfield, England is reading stuff. November 26, 2012 - 2:26pm

Not at all. I had three stories run by Thunderdome last year. If you like the site, and the work fits, then go for it.

Some sites do request that authors they have published wait a while before submitting again, but I have never heard of one say they would never run two things by the same writer.

Brandon's picture
Brandon from KCMO is reading Made to Break November 26, 2012 - 2:27pm

I've done it, but I regret it a little. It was a non-paying market and I cheated myself out of an additional credential.

 

Courtney's picture
Courtney from the Midwest is reading Monkey: A Journey to the West and a thousand college textbooks November 26, 2012 - 2:49pm

I was actually thinking of Thunderdome, Wicked.

That's what I'm most worried about, Fritz, Brandon -- I don't want to seem lazy (for not researching more markets) or like I have a good relationship with the magazine that published me multiple times.

I think I'll use Thunderdome as a back-up for this one. I've never even submitted to a paying market.

Brandon's picture
Brandon from KCMO is reading Made to Break November 26, 2012 - 2:54pm

Research the paying markets. Make some money.

 

Fritz's picture
Fritz November 26, 2012 - 2:55pm

I like money

wickedvoodoo's picture
wickedvoodoo from Mansfield, England is reading stuff. November 26, 2012 - 11:04pm

I guess I am in the minority here. Fair enough. Certainly, each to their own :)

Well I shall at least elaborate a bit on my view of it.

So called semi-pro paying markets don't really get me excited. They usually pay less than a cent a word, so for a 2.5k story you are lucky to get $30, or £20 on my end. It's a token at best, and it does not make me favour their site over one that does not pay.

£20? I can earn that in no time if I work night shifts, which I do a lot. A story takes me a LOT longer than that to write. It can take many hours. If the money was that important, I'd give up writing and just work some overtime instead of sitting at my keyboard. On overtime rates I could earn what I'd get for a semi-pro paid story in about an hour.

Plus, I don't submit much really. I have a whole bunch of finished stories that I know I could get published online or in a mag if I wanted, but I have never submitted them anywhere. I want those for my own projects down the line. I'm in no rush.

So when I DO submit, it's because I really, really like the site, and want to help support it. As was the case with most of my prior credits. Also, I put a lot of time into deciding if my work is right for those sites. I don't have a huge list of publications as a result, but when I do send stuff out, I don't get rejected much.

So I guess it is up to you, and what you want from your writing. This isn't a job for me right now, it's a hobby, and the way I work is the way I enjoy doing it.

The wider spread of credits that Brandon and Fritz speak of - that is a bigger benefit. I agree that can be helpful if you are trying to build yourself a platform as a writer. That should be what sways you if you are gonna chose to spread yourself around.

And all that jazz above about money might go out the window if you  are considering shooting for the BIG markets. the real, pro places, yeah, they can pay a lot more than the peanuts the 'semi-pro' places offer. Getting into one of these places can make a career. You will spend a lot of time waiting to hear back from them though. Prepare for being patient.

 

ReneeAPickup's picture
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup from Southern California is reading A truckload of books November 26, 2012 - 3:31pm

I am trying not to submit to the (very few) places I've been published again, because I want to have more credentials (as Brandon mentioned) but I wouldn't mind seeing my work in those publications again. I guess I'm saying I am trying to force myself to go with strategy over gut feelings.

Dino Parenti's picture
Dino Parenti from Los Angeles is reading Everything He Gets His Hands On November 26, 2012 - 3:50pm

@wickedvoodoo: Is there a list or compilation available on the web of these kind if paysites? I find a ton of non-paying lists, but rarely ones that firk over some scratch. 

bryanhowie's picture
bryanhowie from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING. November 26, 2012 - 4:07pm

I'm just happy when anyone will publish me.  Especially if I don't have to write a cover-letter.

wickedvoodoo's picture
wickedvoodoo from Mansfield, England is reading stuff. November 26, 2012 - 4:22pm

@ Dino - Duotrope is your best frend in such searches. You can filter out non paying if you like.

Fritz's picture
Fritz November 26, 2012 - 4:33pm

Its heirarchical by nature: free, token, royalties, semi-p, pro

which correlates to: acceptance difficulty and props (by the writing world collective)

pick your path.  It is the correct one

Fritz's picture
Fritz November 26, 2012 - 4:40pm

Duotrope rocks!

Sound's picture
Sound from Azusa, CA is reading Greener Pastures by Michael Wehunt November 26, 2012 - 4:41pm

My only reservation with submitting to the same mag that has published me already is that since I'm a newly published writer, I want my stories to appear in as many places as possible. I want as much visibility as I can get right now. I'm sure that still matters to more established authors, but for me, right now, it's my main concern.

Maybe once I get my stories to a good amount of places, then yeah, I may submit another to a particular magazine I like.

wickedvoodoo's picture
wickedvoodoo from Mansfield, England is reading stuff. November 26, 2012 - 6:42pm

Something else to consider.

You are published in a certain place once - a bunch of new people read one of your stories. A handful maybe like it enough to follow it up and read more about you. The rest read it and move on. They will not remember your name. Too many names on too many sites and in too many mags to remember the name of every short story author you read.

You are published at the same place a few times - familiarity sets in. A much higher percentage of that site or magazine's readers will remember you now. If you got into multiple issues of someones favorite place, they ain't gonna ignore that. Much more likely then for them to look you up and support your further.

Essentially, there is nothing wrong with either tactic. If you want to grow your status as an author - the fact you are getting work out there at all is what matters. And I seriously doubt that any editor considering your work for publication cares how many sites you have been at before. Whether or not your writing is good is what sells you.

 

Nick's picture
Nick from Toronto is reading Adjustment Day November 26, 2012 - 7:06pm

I try to aim incrementally higher with each story I send out. If my math is correct, my ten thousandth story will be in the New Yorker.

Michael J. Riser's picture
Michael J. Riser from El Cerrito, CA (originally), now Fort Worth, TX is reading The San Veneficio Canon - Michael Cisco, The Croning - Laird Barron, By the Time We Leave Here, We'll Be Friends - J. David Osborne November 26, 2012 - 10:21pm

I'm more in line with Martin's line of thinking. I figure if you have a decent relationship with a place and can get a few stories in there... hey, great! That means people who read there regularly will know you. This is one of the reasons I'm very happy to have a story appearing on Solarcide even though it's a first: I know that some of the people I've met and enjoyed company with are people who read there, so I'm happy to know some of my work will be there for them to read. If I felt like I did well at a certain publication in the future, it would please me to get something else there in front of people who might remember what I'd done prior.

It's a moot point for me so early in my career, but my hope is that I've always got enough work being considered out there that I'll be getting stuff going in places I've been published and in places I haven't. God knows I have enough ideas. I want my output to match up. No reason I should have any shortage of material unless I'm just making excuses.

bryanhowie's picture
bryanhowie from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING. November 27, 2012 - 7:20am

My only heirachy is print.  If I can get in print, I'm submitting there.  Especially if it's an anthology and not a college press.  After that, I submit to the same places repeatadly because I have a relationship with the editor and because I am lazy.  

bryanhowie's picture
bryanhowie from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING. November 27, 2012 - 7:11am

Richard's picture
Richard from St. Louis is reading various anthologies November 27, 2012 - 10:39am

if they pay, i don't have a problem with it. when i was first getting started i submitted to every issue of Colored Chalk, but they were mostly flash fiction stories, so no major investment. if it's a great market, you know, The New Yorker, The Paris Review, sure, publish as much as you can there, i see many top authors publish over and over again at TNY. if it's a small, non-paying market i'd probably try to spread your work around, get new people to see your work, and maybe aim a bit higher.

i've published several times with Thunderdome, on their site, and in various anthologies. i like what they're doing, and the new Cipher Sisters anthology does pay.

ReneeAPickup's picture
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup from Southern California is reading A truckload of books November 27, 2012 - 10:34pm

Michael--congrats on the Solarcide piece. I was pretty stoked to get one in there, too. It's fun to share space with so many awesome authors.

Richard--as always I am striving to follow your lead. I want my stuff OUT THERE but I also want to build and expand, and yes...get paid. Oh what a feeling. I've only ever been paid for writing ad copy for a small T-shirt site and blogging and let's face it, that's not the high end of professional writing.

Bradley Sands's picture
Bradley Sands from Boston is reading Greil Marcus's The History of Rock 'N' Roll in Ten Songs November 28, 2012 - 12:08am

Yeah. The Dream People and The Magazine of Bizarro Fiction. Maybe others that I can't think of off the top of my head. If you send it to a place that has published before, have a good reason besides that you're likely to get accepted again.

Richard's picture
Richard from St. Louis is reading various anthologies November 28, 2012 - 8:23am

^exactly, @bradleysands

@sparrowstark - and i'm always striving to follow the lead of Stephen Graham Jones, you should see how prolific he is, and at so many better publications than me. i'll have a Storyville column up in January about where to send your work.

 

bryanhowie's picture
bryanhowie from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING. November 28, 2012 - 9:55am

I still wish you'd hire* yourself out to me to get my stories published.  I can only find 10 places to submit that aren't college presses.  I submit to college presses, but I they are very seasonal and slow.  I can't wait for that january article - I've been wanting it for a long time.

 

 

*And by 'hire', I mean 'do it for free'.**

** I know the commas go inside the punctuation, I just refuse to do it when it's not required by law.

OtisTheBulldog's picture
OtisTheBulldog from Somerville, MA is reading The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot Diaz November 28, 2012 - 10:30am

i'll have a Storyville column up in January about where to send your work.

I'm really looking forward to that article, because I haven't much of a clue. I haven't tried to submit anything for publication yet, but my plan this winter is to do some revising and get some work out there. I want to get my rd 1 WAR story published (Heavyweight) and I'll need to do some searching for a good home. I was poking around duotrope last night, so that's a start.

bryanhowie's picture
bryanhowie from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING. November 28, 2012 - 10:32am

Duotrope makes my head hurt.  I don't get how you can submit so well.  I think submitting a story is harder than writing one.

Richard's picture
Richard from St. Louis is reading various anthologies November 28, 2012 - 11:40am

@bryanhowie - i'd be happy to help you submit, but aside from the column coming in January, yeah, i couldn't do it for free. if you can find a way to squeeze some $$$ out of your monthly budget, i'd be happy to do it for a low hourly rate, say minimum wage. say $8/hr, with a maximum of 4 hours a month. let me know, PM me if you are serious. it's actually a service that i'd thought of starting.

@otis - good for you. it's all about doing the research, making a list of your "favorites", crafting a standardized cover letter that goes with everything, and then sending them out. once you get the drill down, it's not hard.

Sound's picture
Sound from Azusa, CA is reading Greener Pastures by Michael Wehunt November 28, 2012 - 12:38pm

@Richard, that's a damned good rate. You mean to tell me for $32/month you'll do four hours of submitting? If I didn't actually enjoy submitting my stuff to places, I'd take you up on that. Hell, I may still take you up on that just to increase the number of submissions I'm able to do.

Richard's picture
Richard from St. Louis is reading various anthologies November 28, 2012 - 2:02pm

@sound-i'm doing a test case with BH. $10/hr. we'll see how it goes. if it works out, maybe i'll turn it into a real business and offer my services to the LR community.

Mess_Jess's picture
Mess_Jess from Sydney, Australia, living in Toronto, Canada is reading Perfect by Rachael Joyce November 28, 2012 - 2:09pm

There's a company that does something similar. I think they're called Where Writers Win (can't remember, also, too lazy to Google). But they charge like a wounded bull AND when I saw it, I thought... so what? Who are you guys? How do I know you know what you're doing? I'd much rather put my money behind someone like Richard who understands the market.

OtisTheBulldog's picture
OtisTheBulldog from Somerville, MA is reading The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot Diaz November 28, 2012 - 7:07pm

Richard, I decided I don't want to wait until January for your article.

Richard's picture
Richard from St. Louis is reading various anthologies November 28, 2012 - 8:31pm

lol...thanks jess. to me it's almost like being an agent, i've taken on one client we'll see how it goes. maybe i'll add more. it's not about spamming and shooting out 500 stories it's about getting to know that author and sending the work where i think it could get accepted. i've seen some of those submission services, and i know that some publications will reject them outright. so, this is more personal and private. if it goes well with BH maybe i'll take on some more clients. i want to make sure i treat the work as if it is my own.

wel, otis, i can give you my BIG list, but it's daunting. at least you'll have a finite 300+ instead of thousands:

http://whatdoesnotkillme.com/2009/07/28/richards-submissions/

i'm going to post that in my column, but also break it down by the genres i know pretty well: horror, fantasy/sf, crime/noir/neo-noir, and literary. that should cover most of it.

Michael J. Riser's picture
Michael J. Riser from El Cerrito, CA (originally), now Fort Worth, TX is reading The San Veneficio Canon - Michael Cisco, The Croning - Laird Barron, By the Time We Leave Here, We'll Be Friends - J. David Osborne December 7, 2012 - 2:21am

I really hate submitting. I sort of enjoy the satisfaction of it, but I hate the record-keeping (I keep copies of everything in dated directories), formatting things differently for each place, spending so much time analyzing which place would be most likely to publish which story... it just seems like so much work to get back form letters saying your piece isn't right. It's demoralizing, I think, not even so much because of all the inevitable failure, but because of how much work must by necessity precede the inevitable failure.

Looking forward to your article, Richard. And I would consider taking you up on that service, more so than an agency specializing in it (as I think someone else mentioned already). The personal touch strikes me as much more important with someone like this. I'd even consider paying a fee to have my work read and to have markets suggested for me if the person was more familiar with the landscape than I was. My problem now is I just have no real time to read because of school. If I spent any real time reading, I'd never have time to work on my writing, which I rarely seem to have adequate time for to begin with. Frustrating.

Sound's picture
Sound from Azusa, CA is reading Greener Pastures by Michael Wehunt December 7, 2012 - 10:25am

@Michael: I'm a little numb to rejections already. I think anyone who sticks to it long enough gets numb to the whole process. So far, I've submitted to forty places, have had two accepted, and fifteen still pending. Twenty-Three rejections. I try not to get my hopes up, or want a specific place to publish my piece. That's when the disappointment comes.

One thing I do hate is how different places want it formatted differently. I have about three different copies for each of my stories saved on my pc to make this easier. It sucks.

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner December 7, 2012 - 10:30am

@Richard, your query examples have still helped me! If you got something together, I'd be down. 

 

Rejections, once upon a time made me real butt-hurt, then after awhile, I just stopped caring. Now, I just pick apart every little thing they say, then go back and try and find common themes they're bringing up. It'll only make me better in the end. It really doesn't matter that much. Some places will get what you're doing, some won't. 

bryanhowie's picture
bryanhowie from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING. December 7, 2012 - 10:30am

Michael, I had Richard help me with submitting (setting up duotrope, creating a list of markets, submitting a bunch).  He has me hooked now.  I can't manage what he does - he's amazing.  For a bit of cash, he set up everything for me and got me going on rotating submissions of about 30 markets (out of about 50 that he set up).  If he opens it up for more people, do it.  It's so worth the cash that it's ridiculous.

Sound's picture
Sound from Azusa, CA is reading Greener Pastures by Michael Wehunt December 7, 2012 - 10:36am

I hope I'm first in line if he opens it  up. It sounded like an awesome deal.

Michael J. Riser's picture
Michael J. Riser from El Cerrito, CA (originally), now Fort Worth, TX is reading The San Veneficio Canon - Michael Cisco, The Croning - Laird Barron, By the Time We Leave Here, We'll Be Friends - J. David Osborne December 8, 2012 - 9:44am

Awesome, howie. I'll definitely bear that in mind.

I've got Duotrope set up for myself and about 10-15 places I've had my eye on which I'm trying to submit regularly to, but I need more, and I especially just need to get off my lazy ass and force regular time to write cover letters, format, and submit. I just do it sporadically now, and that's not good enough. I know I have good pieces that somebody will eventually take, and I don't really get bothered by the rejections (I'm numb to it already too for the most part), just need to motivate myself to do the work.

Sounds like you've got pretty good stats, sound. I'm at I think 1:15 total acceptances/rejections right now with three pending and a new batch about to go out whenever I get my lazy ass in gear.

But yeah, the formatting is what annoys the hell out of me, having to re-Scrivener every doc to the right thing and dump the export somewhere, make sure it checks out, fix it if not, then attach or copy or whatever when submitting, which sometimes totally screws things up like when you paste into an email and it looks completely wrong, etc. Ugh. That's really what I hate.

Richard's picture
Richard from St. Louis is reading various anthologies December 20, 2012 - 2:04pm

i'm happy to help anybody that needs help. it can be like what i did with BH, or something else. i'm also reading and critiqueing some stories as well, for a rate. drop me a note if i can help.

Nick's picture
Nick from Toronto is reading Adjustment Day December 20, 2012 - 3:12pm

I too have employed Richard's services and found him to be of great value.