Damion II Postlewaight's picture
Damion II Postl... from Hamilton, New Zealand is reading Joe Hill - Heart Shaped Box January 10, 2013 - 3:35am

Does anybody write using mixed narratives, or more specifically, mixed point of views? This always occupies the better part of my thoughts in writing.

Carly Berg's picture
Carly Berg from USA is reading Story Prompts That Work by Carly Berg is now available at Amazon January 10, 2013 - 8:58am

I think it just depends. It seems like some writers have no awareness of it. When they randomly head hop all over the place, it can be confusing and also hard to be drawn into the story, since you are not invited in close enough to be involved through any one character's eyes.

But if you are aware of it and trying it different ways on purpose, that's different. It could be experimental, or an overall omniscent POV thing. I think it should be clear to the when you are switching POV, for example, switching POV character by chapter, or at least by scene. Also, it should serve a specific purpose, not just, say, all character number one's POV, and here and there character number two's POV pops in for a minute for no real reason.

I usually write flash and usually stick to one character's POV because it's so short, but not always. I kind of play it by ear, just going by if it seems to work or not. If that helps at all...

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner January 10, 2013 - 8:26am

Are we talking: different characters, same POV? That's normal in novellas and novels, or I should say, it's not unheard of. Switching POV, however, (1st, 2nd, 3rd) is more experimental.

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like January 10, 2013 - 9:33am

http://kayedacus.com/2009/05/11/make-pov-work-for-you-mixed-point-of-view/

[I found this in mere seconds using a computer.]

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated January 10, 2013 - 12:45pm

I'm working a 5 book romance series that switches between books (3rd limited, 2nd, 1st, 3rd unlimited, and epistolary in that order) but I'm not aware of works that switch between these in one work. Or do you mean Bob's 1st person POV, then Tom's 1st person POV, and so on?

@Berg - What counts as a good reason to switch?

@Matt - I've not seen that done in a single work before, other then a 3rd person that describes a journal entry. Are you aware of any?

@J.Y. - I'm being literal not mean, is there another way you'd find sites besides a computer or was that just you being silly? Like a phone app that does more detailed searches or such?

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner January 10, 2013 - 12:59pm

Pretty much any shitty thriller you get in an airport. 

 

e.g. 

 

Blah blah blah Jimmy wondered about things. He walks and then is happy thinking about Rachel. A car hits Jimmy. 

****

Rachel hung up the phone. "Jimmy is dead, thank god." She was happy thinking that Jimmy was dead. 

 

 

Switching from 3rd to 1st is a little more experimental. I think there is some early transgressive and bizarro that does it. I'll have to look. 

 

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated January 10, 2013 - 1:08pm

Please let me know.

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner January 10, 2013 - 1:20pm

This is all I can think of off hand and it's not even good. His back story is first, the overall is third, if I remember right. You have to read like two books into it. It's just sloppy mechanics. 

Some books do switch narrative mode when the character is say, reading a book or note or something. 

 

Blah blah blah Jimmy wondered about things. He walks and then is happy thinking about Rachel. He takes a note from his pocket.

****

Dear Jimmy, 

I hate your fat fucking face so much. Leave me alone. 

Love, 

Rachel. 

 

You can blend third and first effectively if it's omnipotent third. Come to think of it, I think I saw an article posted recently about that. I want to say it's in a thread about Poe. Something about the overall arc told through third, but it exposes inner thoughts and such through first. I wish I could remember what it was. Maybe I dreamed it. 

 

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated January 10, 2013 - 1:42pm

I know I bring them up all the time, but the Black Company books do switch perspectives between some books. Forgot about that, sorry guys.

@Matt - Yeah, I've seen 1st and 3rd done before, and a few 3rd and 2nd as the prolouge. But I've never seen all 3, or a lot of switching around.

@Damion - If you meant between characters let me know I'll start another thread.

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner January 10, 2013 - 1:59pm

I found it. It is a craft essay: The Benefits of Free Indirect Discourse

 

So basically it's the best of both worlds. The emotional inner monologue aspects of first person, superimposed over a third person narrative. It's the only way I've seen mode switch without it being sloppy and jarring. 

 

EDIT: The only conceivable way I can think of it working in contemporary fiction is a first person about a guy with multiple personalities and a personality speaking directly to the other. 

 

You need to get your shit together. You miss your Mommy, too bad. I need to get out of here, I can't take it. 

 

Or something. 

Carly Berg's picture
Carly Berg from USA is reading Story Prompts That Work by Carly Berg is now available at Amazon January 10, 2013 - 11:28pm

@Berg - What counts as a good reason to switch? 

I was thinking of POV as in "whose POV (head) you were in," rather than as in  "first or third person POV." So, it would be when you want to let the reader in on something that your main POV character couldn't know.

Say your MC learns to fly. You might feel like it falls flat if you can't show the townspeople's reaction to the amazing event, him flying over their houses. That is something the flier, your MC, could not know. So, new scene and a quick round robin of Mrs. Smith's reaction as she looks up from trimming her rosebushes, the small plane pilot's reaction as the flying guy flaps by, the hunter's reaction when he's aiming at a bird, etc. 

Or, the MC dies and to tie it up, you want to show the ending from the POV of whoever found him or the POV of whoever killed him.

Or, to build up the tension, you want to show the hitman someone's wife has hired to get rid of him, closing in on him while he has no idea (scary music here)..

That's what I meant, as opposed to just not being aware of POV and randomly flitting in and out of character's heads.

 

 

Renfield's picture
Renfield from Hell is reading 20th Century Ghosts January 10, 2013 - 8:13pm

@Carly You're thinking of 3rd Person Omniscient, but it's a particular kind I guess where it's really 3rd Person Limited but it alternates from character to character. It's a very utilitarian, very versatile narrative mode. Epic Fantasy jumps to my mind with this POV, they're always using it. George RR Martin does it good. Those big Stephen King books do it good. Both of them do what you were talking about and switch character focus with chapter breaks usually. Tons of older Literary books use it as well, and those tend to hop around quite a bit within big sections and can get stumbly.

Free Indirect Speech is cool. Says what it does on the tin. It would be cool to kind of try to translate that idea to something else, as Free Indirect has to be in such a particular 3rd Limited POV circumstance to use it. I have no fuckin clue what one could translate it to, though.

I don't mind books that switch narrative mode, luckily it seems to be very structured and uniform when done. Charlie Huston's SLEEPLESS I remember doing it pretty interestingly, though I didn't care for the book and haven't finished it. My favorite multi-POV book is either the second or third book in Michael Connely's LINCOLN LAWYER series, where the main character in that traditionally narrates the books in 1st person, but Connelly's brought in his other more famous series character who traditionally has his stories told in 3rd limited, and the chapters alternate between the two characters and their respective POVs in a really impressive way. The only book I remember being bumfuzzled by the POV shifts is that Cormac McCarthy book SUTTREE. Dig the book, but fuck if I know what's going on half the time.

Courtney's picture
Courtney from the Midwest is reading Monkey: A Journey to the West and a thousand college textbooks January 10, 2013 - 9:20pm

I might be wrong, since it's been a while since I read it, but didn't Blackbox by Nick Walker not only switch POV[person] but also POV[1st, 2nd, 3rd]? I know it switches the person for sure, and does it in chapters that range from a single word or an ellipsis to four or five pages.