My Thing of The Day is wondering how much symbolism and/or metaphor people enjoy in writing, and how much they use in their own writing. Let me state here, I don’t want to fight about it.
Because a good metaphor requires planning – I think, correct me if you think I am wrong. I’m thinking of works like To Kill a Mockingbird, where the mockingbird was a metaphor for both Tom Robinson and Boo Radley. That isn’t something she stumbled upon; she wrote it with a purpose. And in my opinion, it is something that takes a good book and elevates it to a great book.
Then there is the symbolic stuff. For example, F. Scott Fitzgerald used a lot of color in his writing and he made the color symbolic for other things. Is that something that you notice as a reader, or care about as a writer? Do you think it is necessary to go that extra mile (for lack of a better term) and assign meaning to every detail? Or some details?
When I write, I try to add little things like that, but people rarely notice them. Or at least they don’t mention it if they do. So I’m wondering how blatant you need to be in order to make it effective without being over the top, or if it’s even important at all.
I realize there are many jumbled thoughts here. Sorry. It’s early yet. I probably shouldn’t be thinking about writing this early in the day.
Symbolism, over-arching metaphor, etc., can add a great deal to a story. I put that incorrectly. Properly done, it can elevate a story into the ranks of parable and mythology. I just read some Kundera, and his book was chock full of symbols and motifs, so much so and so interwoven that I lost track of them, but done in such a way that a relatively short book said much more than it should seem to have been able.
I think good use of those devices can be relatively hard to spot. Should be, probably. Because it's disrupting to the story to see "narrative, narrrative, narrative, LITERARY DEVICE, narrative, narrative." Because some authors fumble and do it like that. Using literary devices to expand your work is a bit like dating. A lot of self-confidence and natural flow works best. Otherwise you come across as try-hard and nobody really appreciates the thought you've put in.
Some authors whose thoughts I've read on the subject (don't try to pin me down now) have indicated that they have their best luck finding their themes and symbols after the first draft and expand them into something meaningful in the rewrite.
"expand them into something meaningful in the rewrite."
That is actually a really good idea.
If you are doing it right, people will think you're doing nothing at all. Is that the general idea? For people not to be able to point at a sentence and say , "I see what you did there". And wink. Probably.
people will think you're doing nothing at all. Is that the general idea? For people not to be able to point at a sentence and say , "I see what you did there".
Yeah, I think that is actually the entire point of narrative craft. To keep you, the writer, as far from the reader's consciousness (sp?) as possible. It's an act of (literally) hypnosis, and that's a pretty subtle thing.
Basically, I need to work on my manipulation skills.
Hey...actually that just made something click in my head. What does an aneurysm feel like?
It is manipulation, because you are trying to make a stranger feel an emotion about someone who doesn't even exist.
My new totd is manipulation.
Good morning, averydoll. I saw the title of your thread and wanted to share a snippet from a workshop I was in with Lidia Yuknavitch. She advocated for the exploration and exhaustion of metaphor and led some exercises where you write many many metaphors for a single action/feeling/state and then split apart the metaphor again. Example, write ten things to describe orgasm or death and then expand on one within that list. She sayeth, "write to multiply meanings, not to limit them...explode open metaphors, characters, emotions, physicalities, places to mean a thousand things." It's a lot harder than it sounds.
And it sounds really hard.
Thanks for sharing that! I'm going to play around with that a bit.
Drea, I like that a lot. It seems as if, done correctly, that could lend itself to forming your sybolic framework or backdrop in whatever piece you are applying the metaphor to. That does kind of sound like brainstorming session stuff there. Is she suggesting that as an initial step in the creative process? It does sound as if it would require quite a bit of paring down after your initial "explosion".
Some authors whose thoughts I've read on the subject (don't try to pin me down now) have indicated that they have their best luck finding their themes and symbols after the first draft and expand them into something meaningful in the rewrite.
I've edited/proofread a few novel drafts, and invariably, there are symbols that I notice that the author hadn't. I point out the places where the symbol/theme repeat themselves. Drawing them together tightens the narrative, IMO.
I'm a big fan of symbolism, and it is a challenge to keep it subtle. Metaphor can be used more overtly (Tom Robbins, I'm looking at you) and still remain colourful.
What I find most impressive are authors who can breathe new life into ancient symbols (like the seasons, the sun, the moon, blood, etc).
Thats why I struggled and I am still struggling with the opening of my psychosis story. Its using enough symbolism and metaphor to engage the reader but not overdosing them on it until they don't know what the hell you are talking about anymore.
@ Utah, sort of, yes. The exercise is definitely pre-writing; she mentioned in other classes she will give students a thing (rock, knife, oceans) and then have them write 50 sentences about it. Oy.
She also tells of being instructed once to craft 100 sentences on water; if you've read her Chronology of Water you see the end result. The metaphor is a constant thread in that particular case.
Metaphors can also be used to take readers to the cusp of an action/emotion/event rather than gratuitous over-telling. This is something I am currently experimenting with. Most readers don't get it, which means I am either not doing it properly or it isn't personally relevant to them.
Fun topic and great distraction from work this morning. Have fun with it if you try it out, averydoll.
I love analogies, especially unique ones. But I'd take an allegorical story with no minor metaphors over a non-allegorical story stuffed full of them. If you can extend your metaphor to the entire story, all the better.
Drea, not gonna lie, but the way you explained all of that gave me a bit of a chubby. Writing gets me going.
I think that is going to be my homework for Friday night. I will stay in and find different ways to say what I always say. It will definitely help me expand my vocabulary and stretch my imagination further than it has already been. I also feel that it will greatly help me find my own writer's voice.
I don't know who the most experienced writer is on here, but do we have a homework section? Some tips that if we work on will make us better as writers. Say taking this for the week. And then next week another writer picks another tool that has worked for them and help us really start expanding on what we already have. Help us build that tool box of knowledge and experience.
Or is that already in the Craft Essays?
Some of the craft essays have assignments of sorts in them, but what you're suggesting would be a neat feature for the site. Let the powers that be know about it, I know they welcome any suggestions on how to improve the site.
When I was in grade school, I was in a special writing class, and we'd do assignments like that. Like, we'd have to write for the first hour we were there, about anything, but we'd have to include at least ten metaphors, or ten alliterations, or whatever the literary device of the day was.
Well, I know once Utah posted as "assignment" in a thread which I thought was pretty neat. I don't see why anyone can't do stuff like that. Int his thread write...whatever. Obviously I'm not the person to do it. And everyone posts their responses and we learn from each other int hat way.
Hell yeah, I like that. And thus shall we all become amazing!
I have posted it in the LitR needs post. Please take a look and see if that is what we are talking about or if I was off base. I just want to ensure I speak for the group and not just myself. Or if you have more to add to what I wrote. Thanks and this discussion was great Avery.
PS: For some reason I'm in a very nice mood, which does not help me with our battle.
I'm working on our battle piece right now! I mean, I'm working...
I'm trying to be really creative. It's pretty awful. I'm less than pleased with the results so far.
But I really do think the idea of writing exercises in the threads would be helpful and fun for everyone. I love to see how other people tackle things.
I'm now going to leave the site and BEGIN work on the battle piece. But my landscape it drawn and all I need do is describe the situation. It could be very good or a giant piece of pooh that will get me laughed off the site.
No one has ever been laughed off the site. It's just for fun (think of it as an exercise, right). Just have that rough draft up by Thursday!
Famous last words.
Well, it can't be too giant, or no one will read it. But if you make it really really really big, we all might just vote you the win for effort. So an option is that you turn in a 30,000 word monster that nobody reads but all pretend we do and say, "It's perfect!" to hide the fact that we haven't read it. This would pretty much make you the de facto winner of this battle and you could earn your rapper name.
No, no. The rules CLEARLY state it must be no more than 2500 words.
Don't break the rules, then. Apparently that's clear.
I love that you mock this, but I know you secretly want to earn your rapper name.
I already have my rapper name.
...oh. Is it Utah?
Can't tell you.
C'mon Utah, you can tell me. I won't repeat it to anyone.
Is it Saran?
Please refer to Battle for Last Post for further discussions of my rapper name.
2500 words??? I dont write anything under 5000 words, my agent won't let me and by agent I mean the woman who lives in my head.
Read the rules, man.
Um I don't think I can cut it that much for it to make sense.
Hm. Well. I do think others have stretched that rule before.
I wonder if Mick is even working on his.
My story reads like a cross between Critters and Gremlins right now. Face palms.
I haven't heard from him. He better be working on it! He started this challenge.
Mine is pretty corny, I think. Don't expect wonders from me.
Hm, I never plan metaphors/symbols. But I've come to distrust most anything planned. I treat them more like somwhere between Palahniuks "choruses," those little rhetoric callbacks you throw in there, and the greater theme of a piece. Metaphors can work within or without the theme, but it's pretty much the same effect, changing the paradigm on some idea/imagery. I try to build up a vocabulary as soon as possible in a story and when I feel like there should be an emotional switch where I'm at in the piece, a little callback of the imagery or turning a phrase on its side from a previous descriptive bit I've already written down is how I stretch a metaphor. It seems like logical economy. I'm not the best writer though. I guess great writers can think about the importance of colors but if I did that pre- or post-writing I would feel like I'm trying too hard to not be myself.
I think reading Heart of Darkness really broke my brain where it flipped the idea of darkness/unknowing back and forth throughout the thing, where it was something beautiful one minute and grotesque the next. Never the same after that.
I started my battle story off well, but then I started doing too much telling and not enough showing. I hate how easy it is to start getting into that trap. FML!
@Renfield - I think they're more effective when you notice them after having written the exploratory draft - the pre-first draft that gives you an idea of who the characters are and where the plot is going. It's your subconscious putting it together. Just don't let the ego take credit, or it'll be like hammer time with the symbol.
Bump.
Thought Experiment:
An albino peacock -- what can it symbolize?
Thought Experiment:
An albino peacock -- what can it symbolize?
For literalists, environmental pollution damaging and altering the most beautiful of nature...
Figuratively...I'm still imagining the implications (colorlessness the most obvious). It's a good symbol, because it is still working in my mind...further context surrounding the albino peacock?
Well, Flannery O'Connor loved peacocks and raised them, I'm going to say that it's a metaphor for whitewashing racism in America. lol
@averydoll
Because a good metaphor requires planning – I think, correct me if you think I am wrong
I have assumed or imagined that my favorite writers and their use of metaphor and symbol actually thought that way when they were observing their surroundings and everyday life - I thought that their minds worked with symbol and metaphor to better help them make sense of life.
Then, when they wrote, the metaphors and symbols did not come across as contrived (or planned) because their writings were a natural extension or expression of the way their minds worked to explain things to the authors. Or, these authors had the talent to choose the best symbols and metaphors to express themselves...
As I write this I realize that I probably came to this conclusion from reading these authors' letters and correspondence - in particular I'm thinking of the letters of Joseph Conrad and Flannery O'Connor...these two authors, for two examples, seemed to have a facility to think metaphorically and to recognize symbolism (of course they probably had to work at making their use of these things in their prose come across as natural and not contrivances...).
P.S. Great topic for thread...
No context yet.
Considering the peacock alone may be different from imagining the peacock as the odd bird out of a muster. Alone it could be lots of things. In the group it might be imagined as a symbol of either clarity or lack.
Albino peacock = a void of creativity
Or purist elitism.
In a group with other peacocks: impotence.
Alone: a harbinger of bad things. Probably a monster attack.
"Probably a monster attack"
MOST things are a harbinger or monster attacks.
