ReneeAPickup's picture
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ReneeAPickup from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck Wendig May 5, 2012 - 3:24pm

I read the comments on that video and the outraged housewives made me both chuckle and want to end humanity. That's what I get for reading comments on YouTube. . .

Yeah, me too. "They had a connection from the beginning!"

Yes, asshat, that's called infatuation or lust. It does not mean they were soul mates. Buy a fucking vibrator.

 

 

 

Wow, I am angry today.

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ReneeAPickup from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck Wendig May 5, 2012 - 3:45pm

LitReactor sensed my anger and posted my rant twice.

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter May 5, 2012 - 5:22pm

It's just strange to me how some women can kind of live through life without eventually slipping out of that "fairytale fantasy" we're all sold as girls.  I won't get too far into it because I'm sure all of the ladies on this forum get what I'm talking about, but seriously...what must a woman live through to really "understand" relationship dynamics?

How many times must we be sold the same bullshit love story where the woman is always the victim?!

I suppose I was lucky.

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters May 5, 2012 - 5:28pm

"How many times must we be sold the same bullshit love story where the woman is always the victim?!"

Because I think if we aren't the victim, we instantly become the bad guy.  Or some variation of the bad guy.

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter May 5, 2012 - 6:32pm

^

Funny, there's never any room for GREY area.  Get it?

aliensoul77's picture
aliensoul77 from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall. May 5, 2012 - 7:33pm

I don't get how getting beat with a riding crop turns into female empowerment for some women. Maybe if it was the woman doing the abusing but otherwise it's just Bella getting the fuck beaten out of her by Edward.

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter May 5, 2012 - 7:54pm

^ I don't have much of a problem with it, so long as it's done in the mindset of power exchange as opposed some some skeevy guy preying on a naive chick.  There is some truth in male/female sexual dynamics, and that's why I enjoy writing about it.  I like to dig into the roots.  So while I tend to write about dominant men, it's done in a speculative way.  Or so I like to think...

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ReneeAPickup from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck Wendig May 5, 2012 - 10:33pm

True BDSM is a completely different thing than what is being sold in those books. Full sexual abandon can be extremely empowering (because it is really hard to let go that fully, this may sound weird, but in my experience and study as a doula, I've realized the control issue is probably the number 1 reason many women don't feel they can "handle" a natural unmedicated birth), for some people (men and women alike) that full abandon comes with surrendering control to another person. I don't see anything wrong with it when it is two fully consenting adults with a solid, honest power exchange and trust. Just from some of the excerpts I've read, many of those things are missing.

I'd love to see someone tackle BDSM in a true and honest way, that focuses on people who are normal, functioning human beings, but have a little dungeon in the basement. Most of the fetishists I know, you'd never know that they were fetishists unless they told you, and if you did, you'd never figure out who the dom or sub was. I actually know two doms married to each other, they tell me the sex is insane.

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Batflower from Stillwater, Oklahoma is reading A Clash of Kings by George R. R. Martin May 6, 2012 - 11:41am

I wonder how well two functional people having a BDSM relationship would sell as opposed to the abuser/enabler dynamic?

I'd definitely read about two doms because I'm curious how they'd pull that off.

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ReneeAPickup from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck Wendig May 6, 2012 - 6:18pm

They have "pets".

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Grigori Black from US is reading Radium Girls by Amanda Gowin May 6, 2012 - 11:37pm

If they have "pets" then wouldn't that fall outside the 'normal' (rather traditional) view? A decent dom/sub relationship story would be interesting. Tons have been written, but they tend to either sway to the Lolita spectrum or pure Penthouse fantasy.

I think the enabler/abuser schtick is what catches peoples attention. There's plenty of people with healthy relationships who do whatever they do behind closed doors.

I've known a few couples who do the lifestyle thing. The poly ones usually wind up being spectatular train wrecks. I've seen a lot of couple with varying degrees of pets and playmates. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. More often than not someone in the triangle gets more invested and pulls away from the one they're not pursing. A couple have been good ones, but they didn't play with others. You'd never know it on the surface, if you only knew them casually, unless you knew what to look for. Publicly they're both clean cut exec types. Socially, she runs the show and he's all 'yes dear. Of course dear, whatever you want dear'. As soon as they get home though, he's running things and it's 100% yes sir, no sir, thank you sir.

I'm always a little too leery of the ones who advertise or show it off too much. They usually fall into the train wreck category.

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ReneeAPickup from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck Wendig May 7, 2012 - 12:14am

If they have "pets" then wouldn't that fall outside the 'normal' (rather traditional) view? A decent dom/sub relationship story would be interesting. Tons have been written, but they tend to either sway to the Lolita spectrum or pure Penthouse fantasy.

I'm not sure what you mean. They are both healthy, functional adults, who are successful in their chosen feilds and keep their fetish life completely separate from the rest of their life. BDSM in general falls out side of "normal", but it's their sex life, not their life. It isn't like couples who incorporate the M/s relationship into every aspect of their lives.

Or, if the misunderstanding is because I wasn't clear, they don't literally keep subs in the house living with them, being their servants or anything like that. They go to fetish parties, and have relationships with subs. I only know any of this because the female in the relationship and I are very close.

 

Grigori Black's picture
Grigori Black from US is reading Radium Girls by Amanda Gowin May 7, 2012 - 1:12am

Or, if the misunderstanding is because I wasn't clear, they don't literally keep subs in the house living with them, being their servants or anything like that. They go to fetish parties, and have relationships with subs. I only know any of this because the female in the relationship and I are very close.

I think you were clear enough, I just ran along my own line of thought. I was focusing on the 'normal' side of the public relationship (i.e. monogamous). From what I've seen, having the pets and playmates (outside the bounds of marriage) is where things usually go awry. Compartmentalization is one thing, but eventually someone notices. How does a married couple explain the 'special friends' to peers, family, and co-workers? Add all the other fun stuff into this such as facebook, twitter, fetlife, livejournal, etc. and you get a soap opera of kinky proportions that has an affect.

Once the cat's out of the bag (heh), it usually becomes the focus of everybody's attention. The days where 'we don't talk about that' seem long gone and now everyone puts their life on full public display. I think my point was I'd like to see the completely normal (on the surface) functional couple, where nobody has the slightest clue of their actual inclinations.

As far as two Doms, having pets on the sly is definitely one approach. I see that commonly where the couple in question has one person who is a dom (or sub) and the other person is strictly vanilla with no interest in playing whatsoever. That gets tricky though. With two doms though, I've seen it work out where each one has clearly defined roles where they each have their own 'field' so to speak.

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter May 7, 2012 - 9:14am

A story about a functioning BDSM relationship would be lame.  Why?  Because it's about a functioning relationship.  They don't make for good stories.

Sadly, most people can't write about bad relationships without treading over cliche territory.  And really, about 90% of those relationships should fucking end by the end of the book.  It'd be nice if some did, then more women who read this shit all day would eventually get it through their head that not every brutish abusive guy had all this depth underneath. 

Just leave him.  Let him be that fun dangerous ride at the carnival.  But then get the hell off and do something else!

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters May 7, 2012 - 9:20am

Are you really reading Valley of the Dolls?  Because I find that ironic with your above post.  But also, I love that book.

Really, healthy relationships require both people to say that they are not always perfect.  I'm never going to be in one of those. 

 

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter May 7, 2012 - 9:24am

Valley of the Dolls is pretty campy.  I'm trying to get into some "classics" within the field of stuff I write, so I figured it'd be interesting.  It's decent, but the writing isn't anything to really fawn over.

I've found that for me, a healthy relationship revolved around letting your shit out instead of bottling it up. 

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters May 7, 2012 - 9:30am

It is VERY campy.  And very naive. 

 

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter May 7, 2012 - 9:43am

Well it WAS written in a different time.  That doesn't excuse the naive-ness, but there is more reason for it being there, I suppose.

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters May 7, 2012 - 9:56am

It has that, "If I just love him HARDER then this will all be fine!!!!" frantic hysterical feel.  But I really did enjoy it.

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ReneeAPickup from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck Wendig May 7, 2012 - 10:11am

Ah, but Grigori--you are talking about people in BDSM relationships where...you KNOW that they are in BDSM relationships. I am saying that the vast majority of people in these relationships would never blip on your radar.

And Bek--true. But I suppose you could write a story about something else entirely and have your main characters be into BDSM. Haha. Come on, Zombie Apocolypse fight scene in the basement dungeon? There has GOT to be a market for that.

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Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter May 7, 2012 - 10:15am

^ Oh, probably!  I do love a good sex scene, but they're difficult to find.  Most writers tend to draw the fuck out it.  A real hot sex scene should be one paragraph sex and a few pages of hot tension before that.

I prefer scenes that keep the sex raw, free of "need" and "desire" and "eruption".

100% of the time "He slapped his dick in my face" is hotter than, "He pulled out his throbbing manhood and brushed its warmth lustfully against my cheek."

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ReneeAPickup from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck Wendig May 7, 2012 - 10:33am

And I find neither of those particularly hot...

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter May 7, 2012 - 10:44am

That's cool.  I just think simpler is better.  All the purple language takes away from the scene, IMO.

And in the case of 50 Shades, because the sex is supposed to be rough and aggressive, using flowery words pulls from the scene.  It doesn't read like rough sex.  It reads like a V.C. Andrews book.

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters May 7, 2012 - 10:51am

"It doesn't read like rough sex."

No.  It really doesn't. 

Now I have the giggles again.  Also, if your sexy book makes me laugh so hard I snort, you have failed. 

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ReneeAPickup from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck Wendig May 7, 2012 - 11:00am

From what I read...it didn't really read like sex at all. It was really static and...unsexy. And all the "Holy crap!" written into the narrative didn't help.

But fellating asparagus...THAT is sexy. Right?

 

No. No, fellating asparagus isn't sexy.

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter May 7, 2012 - 11:08am

I'm still making my way through the blog...but, is there really an asparagus fellating scene?

And I agree on all the internal monologue.  It's just distracting.  For a while I actually thought that the random thoughts were added by the blogger of 50 Shades of SUCK, but then I realized, "It's actually in the fucking book?!"

I've noticed at the lot of chick lit has a lot of internal interjecting thought dispersed between the narrative.  And it's written in first person anyway...

I suppose it's implied that that's the way women think, but I find that almost offensive, really.

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters May 7, 2012 - 11:10am

Yes there is. 

And that is offensive. 

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter May 7, 2012 - 11:21am

He closes his eyes and surrenders to this blissful carnal pleasure is so arousing.

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter May 7, 2012 - 11:23am

OH!  Just stumbled on the asparagus scene!

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters May 7, 2012 - 11:28am

Um.  That isn't a sentence, right? 

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter May 7, 2012 - 11:33am

It's been published.  It's SO a sentence.

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters May 7, 2012 - 11:36am

...damn

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ReneeAPickup from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck Wendig May 7, 2012 - 12:43pm

Yeeeaaaahhhh.

Batflower's picture
Batflower from Stillwater, Oklahoma is reading A Clash of Kings by George R. R. Martin May 7, 2012 - 3:11pm

I keep reading "asparagus" as "aspergers." Suddenly the 50 Shades books make a whole lot more sense.

Batflower's picture
Batflower from Stillwater, Oklahoma is reading A Clash of Kings by George R. R. Martin May 7, 2012 - 3:12pm

So much more sense that my comment got posted twice.

. . . no, those books could never make that much sense.

Fylh's picture
Fylh from from from is reading is from is reading is reading is reading reading is reading May 7, 2012 - 11:20pm

I've said this before and I hope I'll keep saying it: Power to 50 Shades of Grey. I wish it the best. I hope people buy it. I will not read it.

 

bryanhowie's picture
bryanhowie from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING. August 2, 2012 - 8:09pm
Michael J. Riser's picture
Michael J. Riser from CA, TX, Japan, back to CA is reading The Tyrant - Michael Cisco, The Devil Takes You Home - Gabino Iglesias August 1, 2012 - 2:37pm

I... I have no words.

Jack Campbell Jr.'s picture
Jack Campbell Jr. from Lawrence, KS is reading American Rust by Phillipp Meyer August 1, 2012 - 2:40pm

Hilarious. I laughed, I cried. I cried again when I saw the overwhelmingly positive reviews of the third book.

Michael J. Riser's picture
Michael J. Riser from CA, TX, Japan, back to CA is reading The Tyrant - Michael Cisco, The Devil Takes You Home - Gabino Iglesias August 1, 2012 - 2:47pm

Okay, I have some words. Thanks for posting those, Bryan. Beyond entertaining. This whole thread was, really.

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated August 1, 2012 - 3:51pm

Well if you are into book 3 of anything you'll proably like it right? Few folks read two books they hate and go buy number 3.

Michael J. Riser's picture
Michael J. Riser from CA, TX, Japan, back to CA is reading The Tyrant - Michael Cisco, The Devil Takes You Home - Gabino Iglesias August 1, 2012 - 5:32pm

You'd be surprised how many people have told me they hated the first or even first two 50Shits, but bought all 3 anyway, either at the outset or afterward because they thought that it must somehow get better.

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like August 1, 2012 - 6:44pm

I'm working on my fanfic now. It's called "50 Bales of Hay." It's about a chick-magnet hick (me) who has a dom-sub relationship with a cow (Bessie.) In the 3rd book she turns into a real person (like in a fairy tale.) We live forever and are mostly happy.

doctorrude's picture
doctorrude from Hampshire, England. is reading The Castle-Kafka August 1, 2012 - 6:51pm

Any Mills and Boon usually makes me cringe.

JonnyGibbings's picture
JonnyGibbings August 3, 2012 - 2:39am

A brilliant book with an empowered and modern lead, a chick called JJ - drugs, clubbing etc. that features BDSM is 'Blue Murder at the Pink Parrot' by Ruth Ramsden.

Jack Campbell Jr.'s picture
Jack Campbell Jr. from Lawrence, KS is reading American Rust by Phillipp Meyer August 4, 2012 - 7:12am

I am going to write fanfic with a fantasizing lunch lady called 50 Piles of Trays.

Stacy Kear's picture
Stacy Kear from Bucyrus, Ohio lives in New Jersey is reading The Art of War August 4, 2012 - 7:52pm

I am a little sad there was a sex thread that I missed out on. Sad face

I prefer vulgar sex writing to flowery prose. I remember reading "Story of O" and it changed my life. Yeah, I said it, changed my life.

Bekanator's picture
Bekanator from Kamloops, British Columbia is reading Ugly Girls by Lindsay Hunter August 4, 2012 - 10:24pm

I lean more toward vulgar, but a bit of flowery prose fragranced in there helps. Depends on the story, really.

Stacy Kear's picture
Stacy Kear from Bucyrus, Ohio lives in New Jersey is reading The Art of War August 5, 2012 - 7:52am

^^ flowers do make the room smell better.