Question: When you guys (and gals) critique a submission, whether that is WAR, Thunderdome or even general workshop submissions do you ever take into account the individual style of the author?
Obviously, not everyone is going to be minimalist or use flamboyant language or any of the other myriad of ways and styles we choose to write in. However, when looking at some critiques (not just my own) I have noticed if the reviewer doesn't like say....a minimalist style, they grade it poorly without ever taking that into an account. (Just an example) Minimalism is not going to feel like a piece by Faulkner.
I do take style into account when I critique. I appreciate it a lot when a writer is developing a personal voice and it shows - it's a strong plus for me and I try not being partial to a particular genre: if something doesn't plain click with me I rather not review beacause it may depend on my personal taste too much.
Someone's style might not be fine tuned yet, but if it's got potential it gets my encouragement. A unique style is what makes a writer be remembered and recognized.
I've gotten to the point where I usually know what a writer's style is because I've critiqued so many peoples work on here. I know certain peoples work right off the bat before I even read their work. I know your style, Doll's, Utah's and several others.
I do though, tend to critique style. My own writing is very stylistic, but more often than not I read through the story first before I begin to critique. This helps me to gauge the writer's style. Sometimes I do suggest a style technique that I use, but normally it's because I think the stylistic choice will help to make the story stronger. I wouldn't suggest a minimalist style choice to someone whose story is written in a traditional literary style.
I definitely take style into account. I read through a piece once or twice to see how the writer handles the story and look for the consistent 'voice' of the piece. It makes it easier for me to pick it apart when I'm ready to do an LBL.
Though I have to admit I treat most of the stuff I've reviewed as either a rough draft or 'work in progress' so my reviews may be a little bit harsher than people expect.
I think it would be silly to not take the style into account. Everyone has their own way of doing things. Now, that said, I'm always going to offer suggestions on how to make a sentence read smoother, flow better, whatever - if it's needed.
Because no one's style should be clunky poor writing.
look for the consistent 'voice' of the piece
This is what I look for. If the style is too far away from what I feel comfortable commenting on, I'll skip the story. If I'm not interested in reading it, I'm not going to have very good feedback. Genre and style has stopped me on the first page and made me go, "I won't be able to help."
Not that the story is beyond help, just that it's beyond my ability to help. Of course, I still try when possible, but if I go the first page and can't say anything helpful, I just give up. That first page is usually the one with the most noes.
no one's style should be clunky poor writing.
I love you.
Well, I really don't want anyone making an excuse of "that's my STYLE" every time I make a suggestion. And really, anything that isn't a grammatical correction in a review is basically an opinion. You can scrap it if you want. But I think most of the suggestions should at least be considered, because it might help the sotry and even help you develop your style further.
We should be pushing ourselves. And we can't push ourselves if we stubbornly refuse to leave our little style closets.
no one's style should be clunky poor writing.
Poor: never.
Clunky: if a situation requires it and you're a fucking genius.. why not? I'm stressing on the fucking genius factor though.
I think that should be the Lit Reactor's Workshop Motto:
No one's style should be poor writing.
Speaking of bad writing...
I always wanted to create a motto, or a catch phrase at the very least.
But then, I have a serial killer like need to be remembered.
Skin suit, avery?
i definitely give a lot of consideration to style. if i'm bored it's likely to do with a style that i find unappealing or an undeveloped/poorly developed style. the number one rule should always be: Don't bore the reader.
It's fine to write for a particular audience which may not include me but as far as i'm concerned i want to write for people like me because 1) i have money and i spend it but am picky about what i spend it on because i use the library, 2) i have lots of wonderful things to read so it takes a lot to make me choose to spend my time reading a particular work, 3) i'm inundated by shiz that's unoriginal, boring, tries my patience and i really find it refreshing and am extremely loyal when i discover a new writer, and 4) i like to have fun.
i rather reach more people and write for the low common denominator and sneak in themes and morals and ethics etc into a story that is FUN (even if it's disturbing, gross, etc). I want to have fun. who doesn't except for money grubbing tight asses and even then they like to have fun it just usually involves victimizing someone.
style makes or breaks a story really. You can have the same story (like a bass line) but because of the way it is written (or played, i.e., style) you can hate it or love it or be bored by it.
so for WAR it's pretty darn important to my vote. for critique it's just one of the things i point out but i don't stop there.
those are just my thoughts.
"True genius reaches everyone simultaneously"
I can't disagree more with that. It isn't like there is some universal novel that everyone is going to say is good.
i think what matt is saying is that true genius is accessible to everyone. everyone meaning the vast majority. it'd be like saying if it has a 90% or higher rotten tomatoes rating, it's probably pretty fuckin genius.
This will be the name of my next novel:
Some Universal Novel That Everyone Is Going to Say Is Good, by Bryan Howie
- with introduction by Averydoll and afterword Matt Attack.
I believe, whether or not a person likes a book, there's always at least one nugget of genius in that book. No matter what I read and no matter if I like it or not, there is always something I find in it that I can take away and learn from.
and matt- i can't tell you how much i hate elitist fucks. it's one of the main reasons i left The Cult. i have a lot of patience wading through d.b.'s for worthwhile people but jesus a girl can only take so much precious "i am a writer" bullshit. seriously those people are dinosaurs. and by the way of dinosaurs, they will go extinct. there's no room in this world for that. yes, yes, there are exceptions ... but who wants to be the douchebag exception?
@howie - I'll buy 6 copies.
I agree with R.Moon
I go back to what I've always said. If you hate the Beatles you obviously haven't listened to enough of their songs. That or you hate life.
style makes or breaks a story really.
@Nikki
I agree. Like I've heard, if you're that great at something why brag about it? There's no reason to if you know already.
^agreed
totally panda. it's one thing to say hey i'm a resource i'm open if you'd like to use me and quite another to be all douchey about it. i mean, unless it's on purpose and ironic. then that's pretty funny.
do they make litreactor whore mugs? that'd be awesome and a bit cheeky.
I want a SlutReactor mug.
oh! even better. i want one of those and a tshirt too. or maybe a tshirt dress that i can wear with boots!
awesome matt.
I want a nice quotation.
"Deep throat my words and ingest them in your mind."
Guzzle, guzzle, guzzle.
I'm going to buy Howie's book too. Even if it's just full of poorly drawn diagrams of things he's eaten in the last year and long-winded descriptions of parts of trains.
I am incredibly uneducated and inexperienced with doing reviews, but these threads are super helpful for going forward, I am going to join the workshop as soon as I start getting pay cheques from my second job, so it'll be good to know what I'm doing.
Of course everyone has styles they like more than others, I have given away about a million books over the years due to just plain hating the way it's written, even though the story seems like something I should love.
Bryan Howie once wrote in a thread that pussy was his favorite condiment. That line has apparently stuck with me. I'd be looking for that section in the book.
hey i'm a resource i'm open if you'd like to use me
I like this part of the conversation. Told the same to a 24 year old last Friday.
oh flaminia! :-)
I'd like to chip in on the whole "Can Genius Be Universal" question (employing only the minimum requisite amount of pretension) --
I think the fact that music (the Beatles) and movies (90% Rotten Tomatoes rating) were used as examples (no books were given as examples of universal acclaim, or the closest things possible) speaks to the nature of writing and language itself. The content of a book (barring any with illustrations) is nothing but arranged words. No one can write a book, story or even a sentence which will have the same meaning to everyone and therefore cannot be considered an example of universal genius. Movies and especially music do not have meaning the same way language does, they do not necessarily make a statement, where a complete sentence necessarily does and therefore a collection of sentences will make at least one.
Also, part of the very concept of genius is its localization.
I believe, whether or not a person likes a book, there's always at least one nugget of genius in that book. No matter what I read and no matter if I like it or not, there is always something I find in it that I can take away and learn from. -- R Moon
Bingo
Now, please destroy me.
@Cris: I hope to god you used Howie's favorite condiment on that.
@Chester. Unfortunately kid was a local student who thought he could pick a lady in the venue and introduce her to his parents, so I had to cool him at first base (is that how you say it in the States? First base, right? -- I know. Not my fault).
So let's get down to the core of the matter. Bad reviews from the new people. Should they be made aware, shunned, taught, or killed?
No one on this thread is new that I can see, so it's safe...
Of course reviews are subjective, and I doubt people will agree.