Chacron's picture
Chacron from England, South Coast is reading Fool's Assassin by Robin Hobb February 17, 2013 - 12:18pm

I'm quite prepared for the answer to my titual question to be 'Don't workshop excerpts,' that's fine and I'll keep my novel writing for workshopping with friends outside the Internet, but I just wondered about this as I've seen a few 'novel excerpt' workshop submissions...

To post something from the middle of a novel obviously invites the problem that readers won't know the characters or be following your plot, but I'm guessing that for grammar, style and achieving certain effects it could be good to post an excerpt and I could put that in the Author's Agenda that I want a review that concentrates on just those sorts of things rather than a grand overview. Am I right in thinking this is what people do? 

I admit I'm asking this as when I've no shorter fiction to put on here currently, apart from my Teleport Us entry that I wrote in three weeks I've offered up nothing of my own yet I continue to review other people's stuff and something about that just seems wrong. I'd happily offer up a large chunk of a novel to the workshop only this doesn't seem the right place, from what I've seen and questions I've asked...so I want to know if excerpt posting ever worked for anyone....if I get a yes majority on this I'll see about posting one.

Stephen_Inf's picture
Stephen_Inf from Illinois is reading Whiskey Tango Foxtrot February 17, 2013 - 12:31pm

I workshopped an excerpt from the middle of my novel last weekend as the first piece I've submitted for review, and I guess I got what I wanted out of the review. I gave what background I could in the Author's Agenda, and then outlined what I was looking for as far as feedback on the different components (concept, structure, characters, dialogue).

Most of the feedback I got was related to the questions I asked, which is obviously quite helpful. In the LBL there were questions/comments here and there that were the result of not knowing the rest of the story, but there were also other comments and notes that were very helpful for the small piece of the puzzle that I submitted.

That being said, I only got one review out of an excerpt of about 3,400 words, so if you're looking for multiple points of feedback you might want to consider going smaller. I'm not sure if this is the norm or not, since this was my first submission my experience is rather limited.

My post is here if you want to take a look at what I put in my agenda:

http://litreactor.com/workshop/sub/worry

Chacron's picture
Chacron from England, South Coast is reading Fool's Assassin by Robin Hobb February 17, 2013 - 12:47pm

Thanks for that. I can't promise I'll get time this week but I'd like to have a go at reviewing that if you still want more feedback, just read your agenda and it sounds like the same sorts of issues I've come up against, so perhaps I'll start with reviewing an excerpt.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 17, 2013 - 12:49pm

I've posted a lot of novel excerpts and what I can tell you is, if you wish to submit, to submit in order as much as possible. To be thrown into the middle of a much longer work will leave reviewers asking questions and wanting to know what up led up to the chapter. I don't think that Stephen only received one review due to length, but because it was a chapter from the middle of a novel. We're all readers, as well as reviewers, and will want to read from the beginning. As the authors, sometimes we miss things that others will catch. Submitting in order is a good way to find and clear up any plot holes, inconsistencies in voice, character development and inconsistent dialogue. Plus, if someone(s) enjoys your story, they'll be more likely to follow along as you submit and the further they delve into the story the more tuned in they'll be, being better able to point out those inconsistencies. Submit chapter one and see what the response is. I'd also recommend not submitting anything more than 3500 words. If your chapters go longer than that, try to split it up and submit them as close as possible. If they're fairly short, and some of mine were, you can submit two or three chapters in one document, depending on word count. You can try submitting a chapter from the middle and see what the response it, but I can almost guarantee that you'll get more, and better, reviews if you submit in order.

Stephen_Inf's picture
Stephen_Inf from Illinois is reading Whiskey Tango Foxtrot February 17, 2013 - 1:22pm

Great point and I agree, probably better to start at the beginning. I do have a nasty tendency to think only about myself (so I'm told at home... constantly). I went after one of the parts that I thought needed the most help rather than going chronologically. Well that and my beginning isn't quite done yet... but that will be the next piece I submit.

Jonathan Riley's picture
Jonathan Riley from Memphis, Tennessee is reading Flashover by Gordon Highland February 17, 2013 - 1:51pm

I wouldn't mind reading from the middle if you most specifically just want a grammar sweep, though I must warn that isn't my strongest area. But I'd agree you'd get much more out of a review if the reviewer read from the begining.

I think the most important thing is to state in the agenda what you need. If your first 5 chapters are exactly the way you need them but you want comments on chapter 6, make it clear that all you need is the very basic structural review because no one will be able to comment on plots, themes, and characters if it's taken out of context.

Also, at Stephen and Chacron. Reviews have been a little harder to come by these days. One reason is that there was a writing War going on. A writing tournament, which featured alot of the active reviewers and most of their free time was going into writing stories for that and reading and voting on other's stories for that.

Now that the War is coming to an end, Teleport Us just kicked off, and I personally have been spending time trying to write a story for that and read and review those stories so I haven't been in the workshop as often as I normally would and I feel it may be the same for many others.  

However, The more active you are and the more you work on building relationships with other writers in the comunity the easier it is for you to get your work reviewed in a timely manner with the amount of reviews you need to revise your work. I hope all that helps. If you have any questions shoot me a p.m. I'd be happy to help.

And also, it looks like you two both have similar needs so you both should agree to help each other out by swapping reviews of your excerpts.

 

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 17, 2013 - 2:03pm

It has been slow going lately in the workshop with War and now Teleport Us, and for myself, I've been working on a serial novella for Parable Press, so that's been taking up a lot of time and I haven't been able to review lately. I agree with Jonathan, though, and maybe you two should agree to help each other out. After some time you'll find the people who give you the reviews that really help you out. I have a core group of people I'll PM when I have a story up and ask for reviews, Jonathan being one of them. Just be active and build some relationships with people. It may take some time, but in the end it's well worth it.

Stephen_Inf's picture
Stephen_Inf from Illinois is reading Whiskey Tango Foxtrot February 17, 2013 - 2:14pm

Thank you both!

I've been busy trying to finish up this draft I've been working on (trying to wrap it up by the end of the month) and after that I fully intend to get active more active posting as well as reviewing in the workshop.

@Chacron - If you PM me once you have your submission posted I'll be sure and review.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 17, 2013 - 3:14pm

No problem. When you two get some stories up I'll try to get reviews for you.

Chacron's picture
Chacron from England, South Coast is reading Fool's Assassin by Robin Hobb February 20, 2013 - 3:00pm

Just got my excerpt up, barely left my desk all day but hell it was worth it for making my first workshop submission...anyone who takes a look, your effort will be much appreciated. It's the hardest I've ever worked on a story's opening but I offer it up for everyone's honesty....

http://litreactor.com/workshop/sub/shadows-talent-part-one