JEFFREY GRANT BARR's picture
JEFFREY GRANT BARR from Central OR is reading Nothing but fucking Shakespeare, for the rest of my life December 1, 2012 - 1:30am

Duotrope, the submission-trackingest, short-story marketingiest, rootin'-tootin' best show in town, is going paid at the beginning of next year. Who is planning on paying for Duotrope's awesome services?

Read the news to get the scoophttps://duotrope.com/notes_current.aspx

Emma C's picture
Class Facilitator
Emma C from Los Angeles is reading Black Spire by Delilah Dawson December 1, 2012 - 2:08am

Too poor to pay for it, can't get paid if I don't sell stories. Fffffffffffffuuuuuuuu...

Renfield's picture
Renfield from Hell is reading 20th Century Ghosts December 1, 2012 - 3:37am

Not gonna be using it. It's not too difficult to find places to submit or to put together a submission spreadsheet on my own. Saves fifty bucks.

drea's picture
drea from Rural Alberta, Canada is reading between the lines December 1, 2012 - 8:08am

I will likely be subscribing, depending on price of course. I already have several subscriptions that I can't do with out (Poets & Writers, LitReactor, Letters to Everyone, Bitch...) 

 

La Emme Nikita, you can always go to where they sell Poets & Writers and pluck from the "calls for submissisions"  section of the classifieds for the low low price of a cup of coffee/tea in most book stores and then compile a tracking spreadsheet a la Renfield.  

 

* edit, the low low price of a cup of coffee/tea has inflated to about the same price as a monthly subscription if they go with $5 

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner December 1, 2012 - 7:19am

I'll pay. It's a great service and way better than buying the endless Writer's Markets every year. I submit stories way to often to not do so otherwise

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry December 1, 2012 - 7:17am

I'll pay as well. It's pretty convenient, and I'm addicted to Submission Tracker.

Sound's picture
Sound from Azusa, CA is reading Greener Pastures by Michael Wehunt December 1, 2012 - 7:20am

I love Duotrope, and think $5/month is more than fair. I am concerned that a lower number of subscribers may mean a lower accuracy, though. 

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like December 1, 2012 - 7:24am

It's worth it, but damn if one month isn't short notice.

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like December 1, 2012 - 7:26am

And then the whole internet will turn into paysites, and there will be a whole new class of citizenry: the selectively poor.

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner December 1, 2012 - 7:29am

And then the whole internet will turn into paysites, and there will be a whole new class of citizenry: the selectively poor."

 

Who is John Galt? 

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like December 1, 2012 - 7:32am

You'll have to pay to find out!

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner December 1, 2012 - 7:32am

HAHA! Wurd. 

Renfield's picture
Renfield from Hell is reading 20th Century Ghosts December 1, 2012 - 7:46am

I submit stories way to often to not do so otherwise

 

You can just bookmark all the markets you'd be interested in. You can talk to other writers and see where they submitted, hear tell of open anthologies. The submission tracker could take about the same amount of time to type into Excel or Word as it does into the Duotrope page. I love Duotrope, it is quite convenient, but when it comes to paying $5 for about a collective hour's worth of browsing it seems a lot less necessary.

I don't know if they've even considered other options before jumping from the crappy donations to a required charge for a service that not a great spectrum of writers actually absolutely need. It's definitely a reasonable price, but there's not enough of an incentive for me personally to justify that payment.

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner December 1, 2012 - 7:51am

way to often"
 

Too. 

 

Dammit. 

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner December 1, 2012 - 8:02am

It's definitely a reasonable price, but there's not enough of an incentive for me personally to justify that payment."

 

.'s picture
. December 1, 2012 - 8:50am

I'll pay.

Because if I'm paying, I'll be motivated to write and submit more.

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry December 1, 2012 - 9:06am

If I pay, I'll feel more like I'm participating in America.

bryanhowie's picture
bryanhowie from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING. December 1, 2012 - 9:14am

I'll pay, because money means nothing to the filthy rich like me.  

5 bucks is not only reasonable, it's downright charitable for all that's provided at that site.  I'll probably do the 50 bucks for a year deal.

I wonder if magazines will start paying for some options?  Maybe a 1 time listing fee for including longer, more detailed guidelines or something....

MattF's picture
MattF from Tokyo is reading Borges' Collected Fictions December 1, 2012 - 10:14am

Back in the day it was called the Writer's Market: came out once a year but you had to go to a place called the bookstore to get it, and it was always snowing, and up hill both ways.

SConley's picture
SConley from Texas is reading Coin Locker Babies December 1, 2012 - 10:45am

In cardboard shoes

fport's picture
fport from Canada is reading The World Until Yesterday - Jared Diamond December 1, 2012 - 12:28pm

Wow! Shoes!

kward's picture
kward from Alberta is reading Off To Be the Wizard December 1, 2012 - 1:05pm

I've never even heard of this site. Then again, I've never submitted anything. I'm so naive.

Dino Parenti's picture
Dino Parenti from Los Angeles is reading Everything He Gets His Hands On December 1, 2012 - 2:04pm

I have the latest Writer's Market (I know--a dinosaur), but since you guys have hooked me onto Duotrope recently, I'd be willing to shell out a few bucks for having everything in one place.

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated December 1, 2012 - 11:24pm

Think this will mean less competition?

Renfield's picture
Renfield from Hell is reading 20th Century Ghosts December 2, 2012 - 12:01am

^Probably less people will be will be submitting to the fledgling markets that no one really knows about, otherwise I can't think of how it would affect submissions at all to the normal places. The stats I think will probably even out just the same because I assume that there's just enough people now who are not reporting stats correctly anyway.

MattF's picture
MattF from Tokyo is reading Borges' Collected Fictions December 2, 2012 - 1:58am

Duotrope does what it does extremely well, and I believe most serious/aspiring writers will pay for it. Very few writers (the more prolific among us) will need a yearly subscription: a fairly natural writing and submitting cycle might have you sending out a handful of stories three to five times a year--at $5 a month you can pay only when you need it.

Personally I prefer to track submissions in my own document as it allows me to write comments--stories that received feedback, editors that requested more work, etc--and if I remember correctly, duotrope's did not (and I found it kind of unattractive).

It's not very difficult to compile your own list of publications. Every year The Best American Short Stories publishes the list of all the American and Canadian magazines it considers for the award (check the back of the book). If you're writing literary fiction you really don't need to look further. For genre, I'm sure some of the genre award sites/anthologies will have similar lists.

There won't be any less competition for writers, but it does open the door for someone to compete against duotrope (which didn't make sense when it was free). I'm sure the folks at Writer's Market are feeling thrilled to be back in the game.

I'm sure I'll buy a month here and there. I will miss their monthly news letter which was always fun to scroll through for deadlines that your stories might suit, though I think I only ever submitted to one. It's a very cool site and a shame it can't remain free, but it was inevitable really.

Renfield's picture
Renfield from Hell is reading 20th Century Ghosts December 2, 2012 - 2:26am

Personally I prefer to track submissions in my own document as it allows me to write comments--stories that received feedback, editors that requested more work, etc--and if I remember correctly, duotrope's did not (and I found it kind of unattractive).

Duotrope does sort of have this, but it's more of a hassle to input all that stuff into the site rather than keeping your own tally.

The online Writer's Market actually has a cheaper subscription, and though it doesn't have the really cool statistics, otherwise has much more useful data and just a larger pool of markets and agents iirc.

MattF's picture
MattF from Tokyo is reading Borges' Collected Fictions December 2, 2012 - 3:13am

I've never actually looked at the online Writer's Market. I used to buy it in book form every few years, then worked at a library which kept a copy. Just kind of forgot about them when I discovered duotrope. Will check it out.

 

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like December 2, 2012 - 8:23am

No one on Duotrope has ever reported an acceptance to the New Yorker.

Renfield's picture
Renfield from Hell is reading 20th Century Ghosts December 2, 2012 - 8:28am

No one on Duotrope has ever been accepted at The New Yorker.

MattF's picture
MattF from Tokyo is reading Borges' Collected Fictions December 2, 2012 - 5:31pm

I've reported a rejection by The New Yorker. Short and to the point, as one might expect:

We regret that we are unable to use the enclosed material. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to consider it.

Sincerely,

The Editors

Love "the enclosed material." --so cryptic, could be a story, could a turd in a sack. Figured everyone should be rejected by TNY at least once in their career, the hallmark of outsized ambition. I got it out of the way early.

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner December 2, 2012 - 6:08pm

LOL @ MattF  I got rejected by the The Newer York. Not sure how they didn't get sued. I just submitted it two days ago. You have to admire that kind of speed and efficiency. I may just submit something to the New Yorker, just to get it out of the way myself. 

 

Thanks for submitting "Wednesday," but I'm going to pass on it. It didn't quite work for me, I'm afraid. Best of luck to you placing this one elsewhere, and thanks again for sending it my way.

 

 

I did find a market that had a 306 day average return time. What the fuck are they doing? 

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner December 2, 2012 - 6:10pm

It appears The Atlantic has a zero acceptance rate as well. 

MattF's picture
MattF from Tokyo is reading Borges' Collected Fictions December 2, 2012 - 6:36pm

Sure I could publish more, but I find the 1%'s far too permissive. I only send work to the zeros--the only way to distinguish yourself from the rabble...

JEFFREY GRANT BARR's picture
JEFFREY GRANT BARR from Central OR is reading Nothing but fucking Shakespeare, for the rest of my life December 2, 2012 - 7:38pm

Writer's Market doesn't provide the same service or as much content for a writer like me (a wannabe pulp/genre hack) than does Duotrope. Also, Writer's market search is not great, and they are slower to update. I am also concerned about the data accuracy of the paid Duotrope service, due to the drop in use, but I am willing to give it a try. I tried WM too, and when it didn't work for me, I dropped it.

If you can't afford it: get a job, you god-damned hippie! And get your hair cut somewheres else! 

Renfield's picture
Renfield from Hell is reading 20th Century Ghosts December 3, 2012 - 3:00am

Do you pay someone to scratch your butthole for you too? That's basically on the same level of convenience as Duotrope.

bryanhowie's picture
bryanhowie from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING. December 3, 2012 - 9:30am

Wait, I can pay somebody to scratch my butthole?  And I've been doing myself like a goddamn idiot.

H.I.Marcuson's picture
H.I.Marcuson from Toulouse is reading a book on spelling December 3, 2012 - 10:01am

Annnnd, just checking out what this duotope thing is that you've all been talking about...

Out of touch? who, what, me?

drea's picture
drea from Rural Alberta, Canada is reading between the lines December 3, 2012 - 11:02am

Use the Google, H.I. It's free. 

JEFFREY GRANT BARR's picture
JEFFREY GRANT BARR from Central OR is reading Nothing but fucking Shakespeare, for the rest of my life December 3, 2012 - 11:25am

Just because there is a free alternative, doesn't mean you should ignore the paid version. I trust you are all running linux, and only open-source free software. No? Oh right - because your time is valuable, and paying for convenience saves you time. You're running windows, because you want something that just works and you don't want to fiddle with it to make it work.

You can always make more money, but you can't make more time. If I go to google and type in 'Noir', I won't get back a list of magazines that publish noir, which ones are open to subs, whthere or not they pay, etc. Duotrope does.

drea's picture
drea from Rural Alberta, Canada is reading between the lines December 3, 2012 - 12:10pm

Penetrator, I was referring H.I.M. to google duotrope, mmmmkay. Because my time is too valuable to explain the site and the whole "teach a man to fish" thing....

Michael J. Riser's picture
Michael J. Riser from El Cerrito, CA (originally), now Fort Worth, TX is reading The San Veneficio Canon - Michael Cisco, The Croning - Laird Barron, By the Time We Leave Here, We'll Be Friends - J. David Osborne December 3, 2012 - 12:31pm

I paid. I also contributed before it went pay, so I don't feel like a total tool. It's a good site and I don't think there's much else that rivals it for what it does. And it's been better for me than the stuff I've used to keep track on my own.

I do hope the stats don't get affected too badly. It worries me slightly, but I'm hoping it all evens out, and most of the writers I know have opted to pay, so that's hopeful.

Though I must admit it does feel sort of ironic to pay for a service which at this point has basically done nothing but chronicle my failure to get published. (Thank God for that one Solarcide credit I have on there, otherwise it would be a dismal field indeed.)

Oh, also, I've had stuff out at Hyperpulp for probably a year and a half. I sent them two stories, and when I asked them about it after a year, they said they were still considering them. At this point I'm just letting it ride because I think the stories are crap and I want to see when they'll finally get around to rejecting me.

Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner December 3, 2012 - 4:24pm

So, if you're ever trying to market any type of romance fiction, it appears Duotrope likes porn. I also find it curious the disproportionate number of periodicals charactering to amputee erotica. 

sean of the dead's picture
sean of the dead from Madisonville, KY is reading Peckerwood, by Jed Ayres December 3, 2012 - 6:00pm

My favorite amputee erotica story ever was "Come on Eileen"

 

...wait for it...

 

...wait for it...

 

Thanks, I'll be here all night!

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like December 3, 2012 - 10:14pm

Sure I could publish more, but I find the 1%'s far too permissive. I only send work to the zeros--the only way to distinguish yourself from the rabble...

This makes me laugh, even after multiple viewings. Last two things I sent were to a less-than-one and a zero. Were this not the case, I believe the comment would still be funny.

Emma C's picture
Class Facilitator
Emma C from Los Angeles is reading Black Spire by Delilah Dawson December 3, 2012 - 11:19pm

Six submissions done today. I'll be paying up once the holiday cash from T's rich Republican grandpa rolls in.

Bill's picture
Bill January 5, 2013 - 7:01am

Screw Duotrope. They could have put some advertising on their site instead, but no it's all about the dollar dollar bill yo!

And yeah I'm new.

 

Jack Campbell Jr.'s picture
Jack Campbell Jr. from Lawrence, KS is reading American Rust by Phillipp Meyer January 5, 2013 - 8:38am

They had been operating under-funded for years providing a service that the Writer's Market charges for, and doing a better job of it, particularly for genre writers. A large percentage of people were perfectly happy using for free and didn't feel the need to donate, despite constantly being asked on the website. This really isn't tha much more than I donated in a year. Personally, I think the publishers should be chipping in, particularly non-paying ones, but that isn't going to happen. Duotrope provides a great service and deserves to get reimbursed for it.

bryanhowie's picture
bryanhowie from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING. January 5, 2013 - 8:41am

After Richard taught me how to use Duotrope, I find it to be the 2nd most useful site on the web (Lit Reactor being #1 for me [tubetrooper.com being #3]).

Courtney's picture
Courtney from the Midwest is reading Monkey: A Journey to the West and a thousand college textbooks January 5, 2013 - 8:58am

I had the same thought as Jack about publishers paying a listing fee until I realized it would probably kill their site. They rely on having the most comprehensive list, and if they went paid-for-publishers, it would destroy their ability to compete with non-paid sites. Plus, I realized I wouldn't pay for Parable to be listed, but I'm damn well going to pay for their services as a writer.

And like Jack said, they're the best for genre markets, but those are the least-well-funded usually and probably wouldn't be able to justify paying for a listing when there are so many other places they could list themselves.

Seriously, though, fuck it. I'm paying because they're the shit.

Sound's picture
Sound from Azusa, CA is reading Greener Pastures by Michael Wehunt January 5, 2013 - 10:53am

Paying for duotrope was a no brainer for me. Frankly, I was shocked it was free to begin with, and was happy to get a chance to try it out before it went paid. Its an amazing resource.