Writing : Dialogue

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My dad is a mechanic and my mom left about three weeks ago, and I realized while reading this thread that his mood towards cars directly correlates with his mood towards women. Today, he was changing the battery on my car and kept cursing and kicking it and finally said, "I fucking hate cars. I used to enjoy them, but now I despise them."

And my dad really does use "fuel," "spark," etc. When he talked to me about my mom moving out, he said, "What really sparked it was..." and "But it seemed to just fuel the fire..."

I think it depends on how embroiled you are with the work. My dad has been a mechanic for thirty-two years, builds cars in his spare time, watches car auctions on TV, loves racing movies/actually racing, has a collection of rare Hot Wheels, decorated his office with Dale Earnheardt memoribilia (we were watching the race when he died and my dad actually fucking cried), and goes to swap meets and auctions for fun on the weekends.

I love literature and social sciences and medicine, so I talk about parts of the body and types of communication and metaphors when I talk about relationships. My boyfriend is an artist so he talks about famous artists and their lines and how they connect to relationships.

So, yeah, I think it works sometimes, depending on how obsessed you are with what you're doing.

DP. Too. 

Courtney that sounded like a nice little flash you just posted! Sorry about your Mom moving out though. Bryan, I'm using your ideas when rewriting my stories. A fresh way to look at things is always good. I love the idea of characters explaining situations by using terms from their work or life obsessions.  Courtney's example about her Dad was perfect.

I love the idea of characters explaining situations by using terms from their work or life obsession"

No part of this would make an interesting story. Explaining things through dialogue should be done with extreme care and subtly. There is no difference between an information dump and Nick Cage solving shit through his rat face talk for an hour and a half. I might as well read Dan Brown at that point. 

@BH

I don't have an issue with guidelines, but that right there, up there, is my fear. Flat, cliche characters instead of flesh and blood people. 

We're all socialized enough to know how other human beings talk and look and act in our lives; why in gods name would we need to constrain ourselves. If you're not familiar or comfortable, then please get out and meet people. 

Which is another issue, I can imagine someone so engrossed in automotive repair that jargon would appear in their everyday speak, but to boil them down to just that is a pale reflection of a person. Even moderate use would seem cliche. Most ordinary people are far from ordinary. 

I'm by no means an expert here, take it all with a grain of salt. 

 I rarely rewrite dialogue and I have a strange way of writing.

So, I have the people in my head and then I write in such a way that I'm watching a movie, or watching live action in my head. I can't explain. I'm sorry. I have learned to be dead-set against constraints or too many rules. When it's raw and spontaneous my subconscious takes over and it always comes out great.

Which is what I worry about with guidelines and such, too much thought and such get in the way of making it real. 

I don't think. That's  just it. I don't think at all. As long as it feels a certain way, I just go with it. 

Don't listen to me though, yeah I get shit picked up and put in print on occasion, yeah, I make a few rounds deep in WAR, but I'm not even close to a pro. 

The only reason even put the nic cage clip up was to show that people name their cars. Had nothing to do with  info dumps or him solving shit. I think this thread has moved to arguing for the sake of argument.

Peach. I could eat a peach for hours.

Mostly that takes place in the second draft, though.  First draft is almost all No-Mind, just writing.

There. That should be a disclaimer at the very top of the thread. The first draft, that raw emotional undertone cannot be tied down and that's what I've meant this whole time. I don't have an issue looking at things like consistency, word choice even jargon as long as it's not the first draft which has been a large portion of my objections up until this point. That and cliche robotic responses. 

Zen writing, really good visceral writing is evident when you read it. At least that's what works for me. Not for everyone

We agree! 

Mostly that takes place in the second draft, though.  First draft is almost all No-Mind, just writing.

- I thought this was implied at the beginning of the thread. 

- I thought this was implied at the beginning of the thread."

I was not aware of it. If it was then I am a huge douche. Well, I am, but ya know. 

Holy shit. Haven't heard that in years."

Well thanks to that rumor (and song) in high school (which never totally made sense) every time I hear or see the word peach, or the plural typoform I think: pussy. 

Go ahead, give it a try

Peach. I could eat a peach for hours."

Sometimes you guys make me feel like a baby. I've never heard this song. Ever.

Anyway, I think the point about dialogue not actually sounding like real life is super important to take into account. Writers have to adjust reality to suit common perception, same with movie-makers.

There was a really good article (either on Cracked or by Roger Ebert, I don't fucking remember, don't judge me) about that new movie Looper. When the main character asks how time travel works, his other self gives the simplest, most minor details and then basically says, "Don't fucking worry about it. I could sit here all day and explain it to you, or we could get shit done." It's also sort of a nod to the watcher who wants everything explained -- you can either sit there and watch a movie describing the mechanics of time travel, then pick it apart and ruin the movie because of technicalities, or just watch a fucking movie.

You have to remember that truth is stranger than fiction, and that you can't get away with some stuff when writing. It's a universal rule, not just for dialogue, too.

But for dialogue specifically, it's vital. Like, who would believe a tale about slavery that doesn't use the N-word? It doesn't matter if that's how it actually went, because it isn't believable. I think that's something that memoir writers run into a lot; their true experiences are usually out of the realm of fiction, because we have to give readers something they can actually hold onto.

It's one of the reasons people are so quick to discount Augusten Burroughs -- how could so much terrible shit actually happen, in such a short time frame, to one person? I mean, look at his work: a book about being in a relationship with a 30-year old, living with his mother's insane psychiatrist who has a "masturbation room," while his mother is either fucking women or institutionalized, his father is out of the picture, his "siblings" are all insane and one shits under the piano, they bust a hole through the ceiling and aren't punished... then there's a book about his disastrous attempt to get sober, a book about his father's incredibly severe abuse, a collection of horrific Christmas-themed stories including fucking a mall santa and then going back to fuck him again.

Don't get me wrong. I like Burroughs a lot. He goes out of his way to prove that his writing is unbiased and factual and lets people test his memory. The thing is, he's so easy to discount because he refuses to exist within the realm of possibility. His dialogue is incredibly overwrought. The mall santa says, "I slip it in once and then frommage on your back." Did I mention the mall santa is also somehow French?

Sorry for rambling. I've given a lot of thought to this because I like writing creative non-fiction and have to make sure that what I'm recounting is accurate but believable. A good example of this being done well is Dave Eggers.

Rian that is some nice pic ya got there, sir. I somehow feel remiss for not having an artist photo myself to go with my nom de guerre and soon to be launched website/facebook. 

you can either sit there and watch a movie describing the mechanics of time travel, then pick it apart and ruin the movie because of technicalities, or just watch a fucking movie."

This. Everything else you said makes me want to go to church and pray or kill myself, maybe both . I feel like you read entirely too much Hubert Selby JR. and William S. Burroughs. Like somehow you're incapable of reading something unless it features a manic depressive amputee drug addicted Guatemalan clown. 

"Snuggles laughed when the children laughed and then the itching and come-downs started and he stripped out of clothes and screamed like a madman at them. "

HA! Yeah. Just wrote it to make fun of Courtney. 

You're a genius... like a goddamn idiot.
 

bwhahahaa!

If I don't know what the character would say, I'm not writing.

So, I learned something about suspension of disbelief not too long ago and it ties into this thread; as long your stories are filled with vivid, real, flesh and blood people and solid dialogue, you can pretty much do whatever the hell you want with them. 

An ex-girlfriend told me about a quote that stuck me, she said: "Stephen King says that he doesn't write extraordinary people, he write ordinary people in extraordinary situations." I don't know whether he said it, but it seemed nice, which is the only real advice I'd give. Make your characters as real  and identifiable as possible. 

Can't wait to read your column Richard. Always look forward to them. These dialogue discussions have helped me already. I've just rewritten some things and looked at dialogue differently.

And Courtney, some crazy maternal instinct is kicking in and makes me want to get in the car and drive to where you are and hug you. Don't worry I won't, but it is interesting to read in your flash about what you are going through.

And, I just got back from Les Miserables! Play much better, but the movie was awesome too. How could it not be?

Sister vacations are good. I hope you post parts of your novel in workshop!

^ Good shit Mr. Chapel. Thank you.