One of my goals as a writer is to write children's/young adult books that make kids actually want to turn their televisions off. That being said, I read children's books probably as much as I read adult books. I was curious if anyone else shares this goal. I've had a difficult time finding people to share my work with during editing stages, usually getting a response of "I'm not a child, I don't read children's books anymore." Does anyone else have this problem?
FYI: I moved this to the appropriate category.
Interesting discussion. The only "children's" books I've read is that stuff that is pseudo-children's. Stuff like Tim Burton's The Melancholy Death of Oyster Boy & Other Stories which F I had kids, I would certainly let them read of course I'm not sure if this would make me a terrible parent.
what you should be looking for in terms of feedback wouldnt matter if a child would read it, until you have a draft you feel is comfortable, and tightly composed. your alpha readers should be helping you with issues of voice and narration, as well as your usual punctiuation and grammatical bullshit. THEN, i would find some kids (pay them, if you must) and ask them about readability, relatability, flow of ideas, and character development.
I've imagined myself writing childrens books many a time, I would say it is actually a goal of mine (I hate admitting to goals). Mostly stuff that would be for the 7 and under crowd.
The reason is how often I've been reading a book to one my kids, often one they picked themselves or someone gave us as a gift, and it is just complete and utter crap. It is written as though the author not only knows absolutly jack squat about writing, but even less about the psychology of the supposed target audience and perhaps never had a conversation with a real child before in their life.
And there is the opposite side of that page where you have your mind sent in awe of the beauty of a well composed childrens book.
Amber I definitely agree with children's books being utter crap. At my job, the first thursday of every month is "story time" for children 7 and under. My boss knows that I'm an aspiring writer so volunteers me to read the stories... but not pick them. Every story time I can't help thinking I'm making these children illiterate. The books are sloppy and horribly written.
What's the best way to find kids to test out stories? The only children I have access to are relatives and, sadly, they hate reading. Would it be appropriate to offer stories to unknown kids in bookstores? I wouldn't want their parents to think I'm a creeper.
Shel Silverstein anybody?
I have never had any ambition to write for the very young. My favorites in the under-seven line are more like poetry than prose, say like Goodnight Moon, or Green Eggs and Ham. Young adult is a bit more apealing to me. I read a lot of young adult books. They are somehow less pretentious than grown up "literature" works, and often very imaginative with story and characters. I mean how could you not fall in love with the little girl in City of Ember, or want to punch Artemis Fowl right in his smug little Euro-face? And don't get me started on my comparisons between the psycological works of Tim Leary and the Golden Compass universe. I really envy today's youth. They have a huge variety of quality work just waiting for them to read. In my day it was all Wrinkle in Time and Hardy Boys. Those were great and all, but nowadays, kids have those and so much more.
So in answer to your question, there are grown people who can read and give you feedback on your work. I would be happy to help. I love a good story, I don't care much who the target demographic is.
@Mason - I'd venture to say I'm one of the youngest members on this site (if not thee youngest) and actually got to grow up with the books you mentioned. I can remember being excited about the sequals of City of Ember and begging my mother to pre-order each of them. The Golden Compass series is definitely among pieces of fiction that inspired me to write children's books. Others are: Earthsea, Inkheart, Eragon, The Hobbit, and oh so many more.
Right now I'm working on a short story aimed at 10-12 year olds about a cartographer who is kidnapped and sent into a parallel world. I plan on posting it in the workshop once it's done, and would love to hear your feedback.
You can always consider writing for both audiences, and presenting it differently. One of my fav books as a kid was Clive Barker's The Thief of Always. Barker doesn't really...cater to children's lit, but this particular book serves as excellent horror for all ages. The illustrations are SUPER creepy, and I noticed that they released an edition that was all "safe-for-kids," without pictures. (I prefer the orginal, since it scared the 9 year old crap out of me!) They even made a comic out of it.
Adult version
vs the "kid version"
It's got a "cautionary fairy tale" feel to it, so I can see why it was successful in both markets.
@Raelyn as far as that super young crowd goes, I don't think I've ever met a little kid that doesn't enjoy being read to. If you relatives are in that kindergarten and younger group I would just read to them instead of asking them to read it themselves.
"Hey, you guys want to hear a story I wrote?" ... odds are you will get a big YES. And then afterwards ask them questions about whether they liked it, what they would change, what their favorite part was, ways they think it could have ended differently, how it made them feel etc. (and f course LISTEN and don't let yourself get insulted by a five year olds feedback) The other thing with very young kids is they will want you to read it again and again, it is the repetitive way young brains learn, even if it isn't spectacular they will likely request at least a second reading. So questions and discussion are probably best to be spaced out inbetween each reading, or held off until after the third round or so.
For the slightly older adolecent kids maybe you can find out if your local library has any resources available for getting unpublished work out to test readers of that group. Or, maybe you have friends, or friends of friends, in college who are going for some sort of childhood psychology degree who are knowledgable about the mindset of that age group and would enjoy reading your stories and giving you feedback.
I also aspire to be a children's author, focusing on middle-grade fantasy and sci-fi. I posted a short story here, and I actually received some great feedback. Almost everyone started their review with "I didn't expect to like a kids story, but..."
The key is that a good story is going to be a good story, and the community here is very supportive. You'll be surprised with what helpful criticism you'll get here with a kid's story.
But you'll never really know how it will go over until you share it with children. I plan on showing the story to some of my friends who are parents, and I have a few friends that are teachers. I think that's going to be a great test.
Good luck!
I write YA as well, but for older teenagers. Still, have you checked out the AbsoluteWrite forums? They have an awesome community of kid-lit writers and a board for critiques and finding beta readers.
Also consider the VerlaKay message boards.
It's hard being a kid-lit writer surrounded by adult writers, they generally have a lot of misconceptions about the market, the range of subjects and the amount of work it takes to write for a young audience.
You'd be surprised at the kind of feedback you get when you're within a community that really knows your genre/age group.
^ When I saw that this was actually being sold in stores, I immediately lost all faith in humanity.
when i heard that the only growth markets in writing are childrens/YA and christian, i did too. i spend a lot of time in thrift shops, and garage sales and places like the goodwill bin stores (cause im an antique collector, and i love records and stuff) and i dont understand how those can be growth markets. those are the only books i see, and not even the book dealers that frequent those places are buying them. they're just filling landfills all over the country. and i dont mean to take anything away from the writers (which it might seem like i am)
Those are the only books you see 'cause I already swept past you and bought all the good ones Chuck. ;)
Also, that picture up there made me laugh... and I am a parent of four, or maybe beacuae I am a parent of four.
I found that book in a Barnes and Noble. I didn't know how to feel about it but the book itself is actually quite funny.
I actually did write a children's book as my first. Though it seems to have gone down better with people in their late teens/early 20s - mainly because the ebook market isn't really aimed at children unless their parents provide the exposure. Think from growing up on 80s Speilberg films, Roald Dahl books and Disney films I was always gonna write a children's adventure book first.
If anyone has a kindle, and is interested it's available below! :) Even just a sample. Worth it for my friend/creative partner's illustrations...
I wrote a children's novel for my grad school thesis (which was a huge change from my usual writing) and I graduated a few months back. I wrote the book for middle grade children like the Harry Potter crowd. I found it extremely difficult to write on a reading level that was for younger children. I prepared for it by not reading any adult fiction for almost a year (except for the assigned reading for my classes). Although I allowed myself comics, non-fiction, and poetry. I found an awful lot of great children's book and I also let myself read young adult. My big exciting discovery were the books of Daniel Pinkwater, which I absolutely loved. Besides that, I read a decent amount of good books for children.
I read and enjoyed Clive Barker's The Thief of Always along with his two books in his Abarat series (which I believe are considered YA while The Thief of Always is supposed to be for children although I thought the Abarat books were more appropriate for children than The Thief of Always.
I still need to do one last edit on my book before sending it to friends for feedback, then working on another draft based on the feedback, then a proofread, and then I'll start looking for an agent to help me sell it. All of my books have been published by the small press but I think this one has the potential to be published by a big traditional NYC publisher instead.
Speaking of Go the Fuck to Sleep, a received a single negative review (although some positive things were said) about my last book, Rico Slade Will Fucking Kill You, on Goodreads. And the review complained about the book's profanity (and there wasn't a ton of it or anything), so that review inspired me to write this review of Go the Fuck to Sleep: http://www.amazon.com/review/RAU2OVJE7YC8B/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1617750255&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=
I kind of wish my book received more negative reviews because I think all the positivity seems suspicious, although the title may act as a warning for people who would not otherwise enjoy the book so perhaps nearly everyone who reads it likes it.
@Andrew - Your book sounds awesome! Is there any print version of it yet? I'd love to read it, but I don't have a kindle quite yet.
Raelyn, nice thread, I was going to post one soon if no one else did.
I agree with David Welsh that a good story is going to be a good story. Mark Vanderpool once asked students in one of his intensive classes to write a short story. Any genre, any age group. "Just make it good." I think what these guys are getting at is it doesn't matter who you are writing for if the story surpasses everyone's expectations.
Personally I read everything. If I am sitting in the dentist's office waiting for my kid to get his candy rotted teeth drilled out, I read the books scattered on the floor. I may even get in a tug-of-war with a toddler over something as good as Tolkien's The Father Christmas letters. And illustration and graphic-propelled stories are a great way, I find, to train the mind to think in images. There's a whole slew of sans text graphic shorts and novellas that are simply brilliant.
As for middle grade, YA and YA+, once again it comes down to one simple (he-he) thing. Is the story any good? The same criteria that we use to rate adult books apply to the full spectrum of so-called childrens books. Characters? Plot? Theme? Concept? The question is what will you as an author be bringing to the table that is extraordinary in all of these areas and is something new and original. Something that only you could write.
As for some middle grade and YA that you might want to look at right now as current examples, along with many above (Artemis Fowl is great fun) if indeed that is the direction you decide to go, here are some suggestions.
The Name of this Book is Secret by Pseudonymous Bosch
Where Things Come Back by John Corey Whaley
These are all well written. The last two astoundingly so. And if it means anything, John Whaley told me he didn't even try to write a YA novel but Simon and Schuster categorized it as such and who was he to argue. As for Maile Meloy, she can write anything and it will be good, extremely good because she comes across in everything she writes.
Now if I could just figure out how to do that.
Bradley, can't wait to read this book you speak of. I know it's going to be good. No pressure.
Oh, and that Fuck book is intended for ADULTS. And is quite humorous if you ask me. I raised two boys and there were times when I said that tacitly.
I have somewhat of a plot outline for what will be my first novel, a fantasy/ young adult book. I plan to get it started at the end of the Zen Mind class.
It takes place on the north-west coast of Ireland, in an ambiguous time period. The main character lives with his mother in a small fishing village, and works in a 'the archeology research center' with his Grandfather. One day when hes's gathering rock samples along the ocean cliffs he falls and a current drags him into a cave. The cave has remains of an ancient civilization that historians dismiss as 'vanished'. The protagonist figures out how to get out of the cave and hauls some of the remains to his grandfather who immediately identifies them. Among the remains are ship schematics. They get a ship and make the necessary adjustments before setting sail. (Here's where the fantasy part kicks in) They sail to a specific latitude and longitude before a vicious thunderstorm hits and their knocked unconscious. When they wake up they're sailing on an unfamiliar ocean in the clouds and find the ancient civilization.
That's the hook, the main conflict comes from within the civilization. Does this sound like something you would read? I'd appreciate any and all feedback!
@Raelyn... Yes there is indeed! :) It's on sale at http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/the-unseen-chronicles-of-amelia-black/16662299
Been really overwhelmed by the positive support and feedback it's been getting so far. Making writing my next one that little bit more terrifying!
That is a pretty interesting synopsis. Rarely are there any young adult books I have interest in but yours has potential. I hope you start on this soon, keep us updated.
Goodluck
and this below is the best childrens book ever, recommended for ages of 3 days to 100+ years old.
I sort of moved over to writing middle grade fantasy rather by accident. Though I very much intent to write it as moody as the NA and YA I've written. I'm a little tired of the happiest place on earth stereotype thanks to Walt Disney.
@ Raelyn
When you have a few kids, then read Go the F*k to sleep, you'll understand.
Then you'll show other parents and relate to them by laughing together.
Thuggish, I understand the book now. When I first saw it in a bookstore, it was placed with other childrens' books. That is what disturbed me, not the content of the book.
Ah. Did you read it?
