jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like January 8, 2016 - 12:52pm

Ideally, the implant would be far more efficient than a Siri search, providing storage and immediate recall of information rather than remote access to the same.

XyZy's picture
XyZy from New York City is reading Seveneves and Animal Money January 8, 2016 - 11:20pm

Sure, but I would still have to be able to access that information that is so efficiently stored and searched for, right? So what does that access look like? Does the information pop up in a HUD in the corner of my vision? I still have to read and comprehend and think it myself, so aside from the surgery, what's the difference from reading it on a screen? Certainly the speed and efficiency you refer to would have more to do with data structures, indexing markup languages, and search algorithms than the physical location of the storage media within my skull?

Or, have we converted the electronic signals of the database to be directly thought accessible, as in indistinguishable from my own thoughts? So that I'd have some sort of thought database that transfers the requested thoughts into my consciousness when requested? That'd be interesting, though it feels a little weird... like a little thought machine forcing thoughts into my consciousness. Would they be my thoughts? Like, I would previously have had to process the information to get it into the database (from my own thoughts to bits modeled on my thinking patterns) for recall? Like a computer-aided memory? I can read a book, comprehend it, convert those thoughts into bits, and now I can recall with computer-aided speed and efficiency the first full sentence on page 178 of The Golden Bough (Frazer, 1890):

We have seen that the Flamen Dialis was forbidden to touch or even name raw flesh. (Only, you know, instead of words/text, its whatever particular rhizomatic-rhebus image/emotional resonance structure my thoughts form when I think that sentence... so not even word-perfect recall.)

Which has certainly saved me the time and energy of pulling the book off the shelf and opening it to the desired page, or looking it up online from my phone, so I now have time to bring my bloodstained clothes to Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong, to be dry-cleaned.

Or would they be someone else's thoughts converted into bits? And when they get recalled into my consciousness, am I thinking someone else's thoughts? Could I record all of my thoughts into bits, and wrap the whole package into a worm program (Click here for the new Babymetal Album!) but instead of torrenting J-pop/speed metal, you get a copy of me. If you are thinking my thoughts... are you me? Do our consciousnesses have a Scanners/Lawnmower Man-esque battle to see who... wait, would two consicousnesses even fit in one brain? Would it be brain damage, or simply fry the processor? Would a fried processor cause brain damage?

Or would all our converted thoughts live as copies in a virtual database that we could all share and access whatever parts of it we wanted to whenever we wished... self-organized and more organic... where we could all read books for each other and share information and learn things together and I fucked op's mom! #umadborg? first!!1! Ayy lmao ...And my Axe! I don't know what the question is, but the answer is cyborgs. Over 9000!!!!

Yeah, I think I'd prefer the first one, but I don't feel a particular body dysmorphic fetish or pragmatic reason to implant my encyclopedic knowledge devices inside my flesh.

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like January 9, 2016 - 2:23pm

I'm basically thinking of the brain equivalent of a new wing on a house. It works like a brain. (Do you know how brains work? My understanding is they're still working on it. Perhaps you can help.) It might even be bioengineered tech. (If purely organic, I guess that might not be classic "cyborg".)

Naturally, there would be concerns as to whether or not it could be tampered with before or after installation. Naturally, the data you access via external devices may also be corrupt, misleading, potentially harmful.

XyZy's picture
XyZy from New York City is reading Seveneves and Animal Money January 9, 2016 - 4:36pm

No, I don't really know much about how brains work, which is why I mostly asked questions. But I do know that for me, given that I don't have eidetic memory, there is a difference between reading a text (or listening to or watching something) and knowing the information in it. Like, I know Scott Joplin's Maple Leaf Rag. It's a piece I've played for the past twenty years. I also know things about it, it's a duple meter, it's in Ab, it has four sections, each of which are repeated before moving on to the next (except for a return to the first section after the second which is historically odd for both ragtime and all of Joplin's other work)... I know what it sounds like, both from my own and other people's interpretations, I know what it feels like in my fingers when I'm playing it, and I also know what the score looks like; given a couple measures, I could recognize it.

But I don't have a clear picture of the score in my head. I certainly couldn't reproduce it on paper from my own memory... even reproducing it with a piano is difficult as I can never quite remember how each of the repeats ends differently from the others and unless I've actually refreshed myself on it recently, I'll just skip the repeats because I can't remember them. And there's a lot about the score I couldn't talk about if asked, like what dynamic markings are there for the different sections, what kind of cadences end each section, what is such and such note or phrase in a particular measure on a particular page.

And this is something that has multiple layers of supporting memory layers to it; aural memory, and tactile memory, and tacit having spent many hours in front of a keyboard memory, in addition to having read the score itself many times. All the different types of memory support each other (which is why mind palaces work, or why if you study drunk, you should take the test drunk.) So if my memory of such an integrated thing as playing a piece of music is really hazy, imagine how my memory of some scribbles on a page I read once must be.

Now, if your cybernetic device worked in such a way that I could recall the score to Mape Leaf Rag, or the text of any given book I read, or a lecture I attended... as if I were in its physical presence, or had eidetic memory of it, then aside from the surgery, what is the difference to actually being in the physical presence, or looking it up online? If the answer is nothing, then as I said, I could go for this, though I have no particular need to insert devices into my skull to reproduce the effect of having a device in my pocket. I suppose my point being that we are already cyborgs, having externalized (or at least expanded upon) our memory to electronic devices... just ones outside of our skulls.

But image/text/audio in discrete recallable packages like a computer file is not how our brains work (or at least not how it works from within my own non-eidetic brain.) So when you say it'd be like adding a new wing on to a house, and it would work "like a brain" what do you mean? You know, for the sake of us who don't know how brains work.

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like January 9, 2016 - 9:37pm

I don't know how brains work. I just know they work. I'm imagining a thing which would work like a brain or piece of brain which could be added onto a brain.

Is it "memory" if you can't remember it?

Jose F. Diaz's picture
Jose F. Diaz from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel January 9, 2016 - 10:50pm

A good theory of mind is by Paul Churchland, the book is Scientific Realism and the Plasticity of the Mind. 

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like January 16, 2016 - 7:41pm

/|_|\

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated January 17, 2016 - 4:14pm

oh

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like January 17, 2016 - 6:37pm

Up In Them Brains

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated January 18, 2016 - 2:10am

Zombie?

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like January 19, 2016 - 7:30pm

In your head?

Jose F. Diaz's picture
Jose F. Diaz from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel January 19, 2016 - 10:05pm

I think it's time we bring back the evil scientific mastermind hell bent on world domination. 

XyZy's picture
XyZy from New York City is reading Seveneves and Animal Money January 21, 2016 - 12:30pm

Yes! Never give up hopeDr. Steel for world emperor! It is a shame about the retirement though...

Maybe something more like this?

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated January 21, 2016 - 5:08pm

Okay, Jose wants me to come out of retirement...

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like January 23, 2016 - 6:15pm

66664
66665
66666
66667
66668
66669
66660
66661
66662
66663

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated January 24, 2016 - 9:25am

4

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like January 26, 2016 - 2:34am

_
2

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated January 26, 2016 - 8:28pm

Unlikely. 

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like January 27, 2016 - 5:25pm

But true.

Jose F. Diaz's picture
Jose F. Diaz from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel January 28, 2016 - 6:09am

Don't forget to vote for the story you like best in the battle between Renee Pickup and Jose Diaz....

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated February 1, 2016 - 6:34am

Or just skip it

Jose F. Diaz's picture
Jose F. Diaz from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel February 1, 2016 - 7:58am

That's exactly what I would do.

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated February 1, 2016 - 11:35am

I downloaded them, but I didn't get to read them. Sorry.

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like February 5, 2016 - 6:30am

I downloaded them, but I didn't get to read them. Sorry.

--- Hillary Clinton

Jose F. Diaz's picture
Jose F. Diaz from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel February 5, 2016 - 6:44am

^

hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like February 12, 2016 - 6:05pm

On another topic,

I still think Einstein was wrong.

But, you know, I never read the articles.

.'s picture
. March 26, 2016 - 12:22am

Today was one of those "I'm going to eat all the fast food and I don't even care" kind of days. I also learned how to pronounce "participle" the correct way.

Jose F. Diaz's picture
Jose F. Diaz from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel March 26, 2016 - 8:08am

Wow! Where did you come from? 

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated March 28, 2016 - 7:02am

I'm pretty sure it is Kentucky.

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry April 13, 2016 - 10:05am

How the fuck is Dwayne always winning this? It's total crap.

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like April 13, 2016 - 3:17pm

Dwayne's forum dominance is due mainly to an inexcusable lapse in proper moderation.

Jkjkjkjk.

When did you get back to Earth, Utah?

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated April 13, 2016 - 7:58pm
Jose F. Diaz's picture
Jose F. Diaz from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel April 13, 2016 - 8:52pm

No, Dwayne will not win. He must never win.

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated April 14, 2016 - 4:02am

Too late.

Jose F. Diaz's picture
Jose F. Diaz from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel April 14, 2016 - 6:22am

No! No soup for you!

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry April 14, 2016 - 12:35pm

I've been...I dunno. Working my day job, like, a lot.

Catch me up, e'rrybody. What's new in this place? It seems that those of ye olden days (or two years ago or so) have mostly moved on.

Jose F. Diaz's picture
Jose F. Diaz from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel April 14, 2016 - 7:03pm

I believe you are correct. I can't speak for everyone else, but I finished my undergrad and am heading to UMass Boston in the Fall for an MFA. Other than that, just trying to stay involved.

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like April 15, 2016 - 4:56pm

It's all over.

Jose F. Diaz's picture
Jose F. Diaz from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel April 15, 2016 - 7:23pm

So do we just stop? Is there another place better than this?

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated April 16, 2016 - 4:35am

Moving sucks guys. I have no idea what I should do up here. 

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like April 17, 2016 - 5:28am

The battle is over.

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated April 17, 2016 - 12:04pm

You want to start a new thread for this? Get someone to delete it and just begin again?

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like April 17, 2016 - 3:42pm

No need, for the battle has ended. It's over. This is the last post.

Jose F. Diaz's picture
Jose F. Diaz from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel April 17, 2016 - 6:23pm

And this one as well.

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated April 18, 2016 - 2:37pm

Unlikely.

Jose F. Diaz's picture
Jose F. Diaz from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel April 18, 2016 - 4:08pm

Please no more posts. This thread is dead.

XyZy's picture
XyZy from New York City is reading Seveneves and Animal Money April 18, 2016 - 5:10pm

Battle for the Last Post! thread is dead. Battle for the Last Post! thread remains dead. And we have killed it. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the forum has yet owned has bled to death under our keyboards: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become the Battle for the Last Post! simply to appear worthy of it?

 

Jose F. Diaz's picture
Jose F. Diaz from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel April 18, 2016 - 8:36pm

So you're saying there's a chance?!

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updated April 20, 2016 - 7:48pm

That is the exact opposite of the message I'm trying to convey. 

jyh's picture
jyh from VA is reading whatever he feels like April 21, 2016 - 4:50am

Exact opposite of attempted message conveyance.