Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedJanuary 30, 2014 - 3:04pm
They are on the list yeah.
Jose F. Diaz
from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary MantelJanuary 30, 2014 - 7:37pm
I'm not anti-social. I'm just not social.
-Woody Allen
Renae Gee
from Australia is reading All the words!January 30, 2014 - 8:52pm
What have you done with the others?
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedJanuary 31, 2014 - 9:02pm
They are safe. For now.
Thuggish
from Vegas is reading Day of the JackalFebruary 1, 2014 - 4:14pm
Guys like that are never safe
Jose F. Diaz
from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary MantelFebruary 1, 2014 - 9:41pm
Said the trojan man.
Renae Gee
from Australia is reading All the words!February 1, 2014 - 10:53pm
Like coffee flavored ice cubes and schnitzel night, safety is over rated.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedFebruary 2, 2014 - 12:30am
Sure.
Jose F. Diaz
from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary MantelFebruary 2, 2014 - 10:19am
BRUNO MARS in the Superbowl halftime show!!!
I feel like a little girl growing up in a patriarchal society and forced to play with barbies and little baby dolls all in the hopes of making me want to become a mother as soon as any man shows interest in me.
So much fun.
jyh
from VA is reading whatever he feels likeFebruary 2, 2014 - 6:21pm
Rolling Rock: Sects in a Kanoe
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedFebruary 2, 2014 - 6:48pm
I think I'll have some.
jyh
from VA is reading whatever he feels likeFebruary 2, 2014 - 7:08pm
Rolling Rock: No matter how much you drink, all it takes to get you straight is two slices of rye bread.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedFebruary 2, 2014 - 7:18pm
I have no idea what you mean there.
Jose F. Diaz
from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary MantelFebruary 2, 2014 - 9:11pm
I don't drink. womp womp
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedFebruary 3, 2014 - 12:25am
No one is perfect.
Renae Gee
from Australia is reading All the words!February 3, 2014 - 1:49pm
But they can be perfectly imperfect.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedFebruary 3, 2014 - 3:09pm
I think we call that flawed.
Renae Gee
from Australia is reading All the words!February 3, 2014 - 6:16pm
Flawlessly flawed?
Jose F. Diaz
from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary MantelFebruary 3, 2014 - 10:16pm
Or we could stop trying to define people and accept them as they are. Accept them as intentional agents in a world in which both are inhabitants. A person is not flawed or perfect, they just are. We create the terms flawed and perfect to justify treating them like objects; treating them as other.
Renae Gee
from Australia is reading All the words!February 3, 2014 - 11:10pm
Absolutely. Philosophy always gets to the nitty gritty. There is no good ot bad - it just is.
Jose F. Diaz
from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary MantelFebruary 3, 2014 - 11:16pm
I'm a philosophy and English major. I would say there is good and bad, right and wrong. But there is no truth. At least in continental philosophy, in analytical philosophy everything gets less abstract. Well, at least it tries to.
Renae Gee
from Australia is reading All the words!February 3, 2014 - 11:29pm
Yep. But what is good and bad changes over the ages - so it is not static - which is what I guess you mean by no truth. Right and wrong changes all the time, depends on which culture you are living in and so on. Is it not us trying to give everything a meaning, when there probably is no meaning to anything? I would be interested to hear your view as a studier of philosophy. I have only started reading around it- starting with existentialism. It hurts my brain, in a really great way.
Jose F. Diaz
from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary MantelFebruary 3, 2014 - 11:55pm
If you're starting with existentialism you are going to have a really steep learning curve. I spent 18 months with Ancient Greek, Moderns, and contemporary before I started getting into it. And only just recently is it beginning to make sense.
We are born into a world that is not of our making. We are, as children, shaped by the world around us. We only become products of that which we have been exposed to. Based on what we have been exposed to, we create the world (our intellectual mind). So we have our physical bodies which are a part of the material world, and we have our intellectual minds, which is based on the material world but able to create things much more abstractly. With this abstraction we can think of a perfect circle, squares, an omnipresent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god, love, hate, beauty. These things do not exist in the material world, but based on our experience we can abstract this understanding. But it is important to remember that they are only creations of our intellectual minds. They do not in truth exist. We place value on these abstractions. Some people go to the point of believing these abstraction so completely they are willing to sacrifice their physical bodies for them. We call these people ascetics. You see this in priests who whip their bodies because they believe it will bring them closer to death, which in turn will bring them closer to god (just an example, scientists do this as well). And so on and so forth, there is lots and lots and lots more. But this is all based in continental philosophy
Analytic philosophy deals more with the sciences and is deeply rooted in logic, definitions, and attempting to discover truth. I like to think that continental philosophy deals more with abstracts like psychology and aestheticism, and analytic deals with logic and science like physics and law.
So that is a fraction of a nut shell of an answer. The best people I have found for existentialism would be Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Sartre, and DeBeauvoir. For analytic philosophy you might as well just start reading, most philosophers deal with this field. I don't. I love continental, also known as historical philosophy.
Renae Gee
from Australia is reading All the words!February 4, 2014 - 12:16am
Wow thanks for such a great answer. Thanks for the points of direction around who to read. I claim I suffer (delight) in existential angst, so I had at least find out exactly what that means. As humans we sure do a lot of abstraction. Thanks so much for taking the time to do that, very enlightening.
Personally I prefer sex to get me closer to god, and I don't even believe in such a being. Maybe I should try whipping...
Jose F. Diaz
from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary MantelFebruary 4, 2014 - 12:35am
Choking works too, but you gotta be gentle about it. No one wants to go to work with hand prints around their throat. It just leads to odd looks. Mostly of envy.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedFebruary 4, 2014 - 6:30am
But there is no truth.
If you don't believe in absolute truth how can you believe in anything else? Isn't that idea literally self contradictory, since you know a truth about lack of truth?
Jose F. Diaz
from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary MantelFebruary 4, 2014 - 11:46pm
By positing one claim does not mean I automatically affirm it's opposite.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedFebruary 5, 2014 - 5:38am
Someone is dodging my second question! If there is no truth, and how can you correctly say there is no truth? Doesn't the act of doing so disprove your own statement?
Jose F. Diaz
from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary MantelFebruary 5, 2014 - 9:35am
At what point in time did I say it way MY view on the world?
It is a paradox in the work, but that doesn't negate the importance of the work.
But if you want a better answer about Nietzsche's Truth Paradox, here you go.
Renae Gee
from Australia is reading All the words!February 5, 2014 - 2:04pm
You need one for the other to exist. eg; dark cannot exist without light. bad v good and so on. So even though there is no truth, truth still has to exist so that the opposite can also exist. I hope that makes sense.
Thuggish
from Vegas is reading Day of the JackalFebruary 5, 2014 - 2:15pm
Someone's been reading the Tao te Ching, however you spell it.
Here's a fun one- does God's existence necessitate the devil's?
Renae Gee
from Australia is reading All the words!February 5, 2014 - 2:35pm
God,nor the devil exist. Easy.
Yes, I think so. It wouldn't really be fair for humans to not have something to blame all their evil deeds on. Or have a god to do things in the name of. Humans like to pawn their responsibility off onto invisible forces, so yes, humans need the god and the devil to both exist.
Not all humans, though.
Thuggish
from Vegas is reading Day of the JackalFebruary 5, 2014 - 2:42pm
bah you avoid! predicating on the "if" that god exists, does his existence then necessitate the devil, humans being around or not?
Renae Gee
from Australia is reading All the words!February 5, 2014 - 2:51pm
I doubt I will be able to answer to any satisfaction, as cleverer people than me have pondered this for ever. However, I shall give it a go. Yes one needs the other for the following reasons, I may use humor to deflect my inadequacies of explanation:
it would be incredibly boring for only one to exist, what would they do all day without coming up with evil / angelic plots for the world. I mean God got so bored that he(in the traditional view) had to invent humans to entertain himself. Free will was only given to us to make it interesting for him.
if there was only one, the whole world would be out of balance, it would fail, even nature keeps balance.
Now I'm stuck.
What is your answer to your question?
jyh
from VA is reading whatever he feels likeFebruary 5, 2014 - 6:31pm
Balance is bullshit; indeed, there is no absolute, eternal, universal condition which prevents overall lopsidedness.
Opposites are not always codependent; indeed, often what people consider to be opposites are not in true opposition.
It might simply be easier to imagine a general symmetry than a universe without relativity; indeed, the latter might be impossible (for a person to imagine "realistically").
1 & 3 are related, as are 2 & 3, as are 1 & 2, but 4 simply wouldn't mean much without 1, 2 & 3; indeed, one might call it nonsense, or at least pointlessly abstract.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedFebruary 6, 2014 - 2:36am
@Jose F. Diaz - Let poor old Nietzsche rest man, you can do better than that.
@Renee Gee -
God,nor the devil exist. Easy.
Yes, I think so. It wouldn't really be fair...
What about the world suggests it is such a fair place you can use that fairness as evidence of anything?
@Thuggish - If you mean a Judo-Christain God, no He wouldn't need the Devil to exist. God is all powerful, complete in and of himself. He is portrayed as having existed before the Devil was created as Lucifer, was still God before Luicifer fell becoming Satan, and Satan is not the embodiment of evil, but simply the first to fall. If you mean 'god' in some other sense it would depend on how the word is used.
Renae Gee
from Australia is reading All the words!February 6, 2014 - 2:56am
@Dwayne - your exactly right, there is no fairness in anything other than some peoples minds about how things should be, not how they are. I was trying to be funny and have a dig at religion at the same time, tis all.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedFebruary 6, 2014 - 3:21am
An odd thing to do.
Renae Gee
from Australia is reading All the words!February 6, 2014 - 3:17pm
Guess I'm just wild and crazy like that.
jyh
from VA is reading whatever he feels likeFebruary 6, 2014 - 3:27pm
Judo-Christain
Not trying to be a jerk: that's a sweet typo.
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedFebruary 6, 2014 - 4:17pm
We've decided that loving God and our fellow man doesn't mean taking any more of your lip.
Profunda Saint-...
from Calgary, AB is reading Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy SeriesFebruary 6, 2014 - 4:19pm
Jose F. Diaz
from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary MantelFebruary 7, 2014 - 3:22pm
Personally, I think if a person believes in god there can be no conversation with that person. They refuse to recognize any evidence that goes against their belief. They believe that science's inability to answer their questions proves their god's existence. At least science is searching for discovery of how the Universe operates. The religious have given up and just accepted god did it. It's a really great way to ensure you don't have to think too hard.
And generally, I find them to be the most ignorant people in the world.
If you feel offended, I don't really care. Your being offended doesn't make you right.
jyh
from VA is reading whatever he feels likeFebruary 7, 2014 - 5:54pm
“Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.” -- Carl Sagan
I think if a person believes in god there can be no conversation with that person. They refuse to recognize any evidence that goes against their belief. They believe that science's inability to answer their questions proves their god's existence.
If they believe that, then they're not following a sound logical path to their conclusion. (Does that make them wrong? Depends who you ask.) And likewise, if science provides one or more plausible explanations for something which was once thought inexplicable and therefore attributed to a divine being or force, it doesn't rule out the existence of some such being or force.
Jose F. Diaz
from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary MantelFebruary 7, 2014 - 6:45pm
You are correct, it does not disprove the existence of their absent father figure.
jyh
from VA is reading whatever he feels likeFebruary 7, 2014 - 9:05pm
it does not disprove the existence of their absent father figure.
Many deities are not very fatherly at all.
Renae Gee
from Australia is reading All the words!February 8, 2014 - 12:19am
Plot twist: What did you have for breakfast? I had toast with strawberry and rhubarb jam. I also finished reading 'May we Be Forgiven' by A.M.Homes and am now feeling bereft and have to live back in the real world - blegh.
Jose F. Diaz
from Boston is reading Wolf Hall by Hilary MantelFebruary 8, 2014 - 1:08am
Which guy? Any of these?
http://www.primermagazine.com/2010/field-manual/dont-be-that-guy-6-stereotypical-guys-you-don%E2%80%99t-want-to-be
They are on the list yeah.
What have you done with the others?
They are safe. For now.
Guys like that are never safe
Said the trojan man.
Like coffee flavored ice cubes and schnitzel night, safety is over rated.
Sure.
BRUNO MARS in the Superbowl halftime show!!!
I feel like a little girl growing up in a patriarchal society and forced to play with barbies and little baby dolls all in the hopes of making me want to become a mother as soon as any man shows interest in me.
So much fun.
Rolling Rock: Sects in a Kanoe
I think I'll have some.
Rolling Rock: No matter how much you drink, all it takes to get you straight is two slices of rye bread.
I have no idea what you mean there.
I don't drink. womp womp
No one is perfect.
But they can be perfectly imperfect.
I think we call that flawed.
Flawlessly flawed?
Or we could stop trying to define people and accept them as they are. Accept them as intentional agents in a world in which both are inhabitants. A person is not flawed or perfect, they just are. We create the terms flawed and perfect to justify treating them like objects; treating them as other.
Absolutely. Philosophy always gets to the nitty gritty. There is no good ot bad - it just is.
I'm a philosophy and English major. I would say there is good and bad, right and wrong. But there is no truth. At least in continental philosophy, in analytical philosophy everything gets less abstract. Well, at least it tries to.
Yep. But what is good and bad changes over the ages - so it is not static - which is what I guess you mean by no truth. Right and wrong changes all the time, depends on which culture you are living in and so on. Is it not us trying to give everything a meaning, when there probably is no meaning to anything? I would be interested to hear your view as a studier of philosophy. I have only started reading around it- starting with existentialism. It hurts my brain, in a really great way.
If you're starting with existentialism you are going to have a really steep learning curve. I spent 18 months with Ancient Greek, Moderns, and contemporary before I started getting into it. And only just recently is it beginning to make sense.
We are born into a world that is not of our making. We are, as children, shaped by the world around us. We only become products of that which we have been exposed to. Based on what we have been exposed to, we create the world (our intellectual mind). So we have our physical bodies which are a part of the material world, and we have our intellectual minds, which is based on the material world but able to create things much more abstractly. With this abstraction we can think of a perfect circle, squares, an omnipresent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god, love, hate, beauty. These things do not exist in the material world, but based on our experience we can abstract this understanding. But it is important to remember that they are only creations of our intellectual minds. They do not in truth exist. We place value on these abstractions. Some people go to the point of believing these abstraction so completely they are willing to sacrifice their physical bodies for them. We call these people ascetics. You see this in priests who whip their bodies because they believe it will bring them closer to death, which in turn will bring them closer to god (just an example, scientists do this as well). And so on and so forth, there is lots and lots and lots more. But this is all based in continental philosophy
Analytic philosophy deals more with the sciences and is deeply rooted in logic, definitions, and attempting to discover truth. I like to think that continental philosophy deals more with abstracts like psychology and aestheticism, and analytic deals with logic and science like physics and law.
So that is a fraction of a nut shell of an answer. The best people I have found for existentialism would be Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Sartre, and DeBeauvoir. For analytic philosophy you might as well just start reading, most philosophers deal with this field. I don't. I love continental, also known as historical philosophy.
Wow thanks for such a great answer. Thanks for the points of direction around who to read. I claim I suffer (delight) in existential angst, so I had at least find out exactly what that means. As humans we sure do a lot of abstraction. Thanks so much for taking the time to do that, very enlightening.
Personally I prefer sex to get me closer to god, and I don't even believe in such a being. Maybe I should try whipping...
Choking works too, but you gotta be gentle about it. No one wants to go to work with hand prints around their throat. It just leads to odd looks. Mostly of envy.
If you don't believe in absolute truth how can you believe in anything else? Isn't that idea literally self contradictory, since you know a truth about lack of truth?
By positing one claim does not mean I automatically affirm it's opposite.
Someone is dodging my second question! If there is no truth, and how can you correctly say there is no truth? Doesn't the act of doing so disprove your own statement?
At what point in time did I say it way MY view on the world?
It is a paradox in the work, but that doesn't negate the importance of the work.
But if you want a better answer about Nietzsche's Truth Paradox, here you go.
http://departments.bloomu.edu/philosophy/pages/content/hales/articlepdf/...
You need one for the other to exist. eg; dark cannot exist without light. bad v good and so on. So even though there is no truth, truth still has to exist so that the opposite can also exist. I hope that makes sense.
Someone's been reading the Tao te Ching, however you spell it.
Here's a fun one- does God's existence necessitate the devil's?
God,nor the devil exist. Easy.
Yes, I think so. It wouldn't really be fair for humans to not have something to blame all their evil deeds on. Or have a god to do things in the name of. Humans like to pawn their responsibility off onto invisible forces, so yes, humans need the god and the devil to both exist.
Not all humans, though.
bah you avoid! predicating on the "if" that god exists, does his existence then necessitate the devil, humans being around or not?
I doubt I will be able to answer to any satisfaction, as cleverer people than me have pondered this for ever. However, I shall give it a go. Yes one needs the other for the following reasons, I may use humor to deflect my inadequacies of explanation:
What is your answer to your question?
@Jose F. Diaz - Let poor old Nietzsche rest man, you can do better than that.
@Renee Gee -
What about the world suggests it is such a fair place you can use that fairness as evidence of anything?
@Thuggish - If you mean a Judo-Christain God, no He wouldn't need the Devil to exist. God is all powerful, complete in and of himself. He is portrayed as having existed before the Devil was created as Lucifer, was still God before Luicifer fell becoming Satan, and Satan is not the embodiment of evil, but simply the first to fall. If you mean 'god' in some other sense it would depend on how the word is used.
@Dwayne - your exactly right, there is no fairness in anything other than some peoples minds about how things should be, not how they are. I was trying to be funny and have a dig at religion at the same time, tis all.
An odd thing to do.
Guess I'm just wild and crazy like that.
Not trying to be a jerk: that's a sweet typo.
We've decided that loving God and our fellow man doesn't mean taking any more of your lip.
I'm just gonna leave this here.
http://www.nietzschefamilycircus.com/
http://www.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/p/keep-calm-and-judo-chop-everything/
Personally, I think if a person believes in god there can be no conversation with that person. They refuse to recognize any evidence that goes against their belief. They believe that science's inability to answer their questions proves their god's existence. At least science is searching for discovery of how the Universe operates. The religious have given up and just accepted god did it. It's a really great way to ensure you don't have to think too hard.
And generally, I find them to be the most ignorant people in the world.
If you feel offended, I don't really care. Your being offended doesn't make you right.
“Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.” -- Carl Sagan
If they believe that, then they're not following a sound logical path to their conclusion. (Does that make them wrong? Depends who you ask.) And likewise, if science provides one or more plausible explanations for something which was once thought inexplicable and therefore attributed to a divine being or force, it doesn't rule out the existence of some such being or force.
You are correct, it does not disprove the existence of their absent father figure.
Many deities are not very fatherly at all.
Plot twist: What did you have for breakfast? I had toast with strawberry and rhubarb jam. I also finished reading 'May we Be Forgiven' by A.M.Homes and am now feeling bereft and have to live back in the real world - blegh.
Coffee