Born Again Packaging

Hey Max.

This was a tough one. I'll be honest, I'm not really certain that the conceit of the story- Mitch basically telling the court everything that happened- worked for me, but damn if there's not some kick ass and funny lines/moments through out the thing that made me see why you would go this way. Which is what ended up making give you the thumbs up at the end. It's a weird, unwieldy story, but it's also fun and entertaining, and that matters a lot.

So yeah, I was entertained through most of it. But there were also a few parts, especially early on that I wasn't with the story. I don't think your beginning is very eye catching, mainly because it's so much telling. Yes, the whole story just just a lot of telling, but I felt that as it continued, Mitch's voice became stronger, and you got better at walking that line between just telling what happened, and being able to paint a picture through Mitch's words.

I thought that this line:

After having been told by more than one public defender that I didn't stand a chance I decided to represent myself. If I was going to go back to prison I may as well do it on my own terms.

Was a bit awkward. It took me out of the moment because it's kinda of a simple, non descript line. It doesn't really jive with how the rest of the story is written, and feels like (sorry to keep harping on this) too much telling.

Early on, Mitch's dialogue felt too writerly and that you were trying a bit too hard. It's funny, because while I might not have a problem with a description like "Half pregnant clouds" (which is a great btw) whe dropped into a first person/third person story, I have a harder time believing it came out of somebody's mouth.

And the problem is that you have  a lot of lines like this, where I kept getting knocked out of the story due to my inability to fully buy that this is how someone would speak. I think that as the story continued and you were more focused on telling us how Mitch killed all those people, the little asides went away, and his way of speaking hit that right balanced, but you might want to make a second pass and cut extraneous pieces early on.

I think the climax of the story happens with this line:

“All of us are made up of the same raw material as God.”

It's a killer line, and it sort of ties everything that has happened or will happen really well. Unfortunately, the line shows up on page 5 and ends up being buried. The ending left me flat. The last bit in the court itself was a bit anticlimatic considering the story Mitch told, and then paragrahs that follow it are so different in tone and style from everything that came before it, that they seem out of place. You focus on Born Agan rather than Mitch, where I wanted more of the latter.

I would be really curious to see how this story would be like if reworked to first or third person, and you focusing on the event itself rather than a retelling of it. Otherwise, I really do think you have something here, just maybe trim some of the fat (as funny as it might be) to make it really pop.

Hope this helps.

Hi Max,

As promised:

So let me first say that I really enjoyed your story - I have never read anything like it before. It's Ballsy and all the grossness and goryness but its balanced quite well with the dark humour and Mitch's character, which if you ask me is quite likeable. 

On the topic of Mitch, some of the lines he said just didnt sound like real conversation that would happen in front of me. I can see him writing it down in his journal, or in a narrative, but it was too clean to be coming out of his mouth, almost like a written speech that he was reading and saying aloud. Perhaps, if the dialog was editted so he spoke in smaller sentences, using simpler words and maybe even making mistakes and backtracking, jumping between events unwittingly etc.

(Spoiler)

Another thing I would have liked was to spend some more time seeing how Mitch felt about going back to prison for the rest of his life, how his time in prison earlier had affected him, and how he felt about being indirectly responsible for the death of 30 people. Also he seemed somewhat fanatical about the Born Again company by the end. Was this on purpose? Also when he said that the business being run from the inside, I interpretted that he'd probably met the person running the company in prison, but I wanted to know more about this. Perhaps some more details could be added?

(/Spoiler)

All in all, I am glad I read your story Max, and I must say you definitely pushed the boundaries of dark humour and succeeded!! 

Max,

This story was bizarre, disturbing and totally and utterly fantastic. I can understand where people are coming from with the whole Mitch sounding too writerly thing but frankly I think it adds to the story. I've met some people in my life who really do talk like that. Not exactly obviously, but who speak overly formally and poetically just because they're either that pretentious or that weird. I have a feeling Mitch is more of the latter where so many things have gone wrong in his brain that his stlye of speaking has crossed the line from just formal and removed to completely fantastic and perpetually out of place. I think it really helped cement his status as outsider, borderline psycho and general twisted fuck. The one thing that didn't work for me was actually when you broke from Mitch's retelling of the events and described people's reactions. Maybe I'm just too desensitized but I couldn't really buy into people puking into their laps and what not, especially since it was already pretty obvious what Mitch had been rolling around in. I think if you cut that part but left the shoe throwing, things would go much more smoothly. The shoe thing conveys enough human disgust without going over the top. Other than that, I have no qualms with this whatsoever. It was a really grotessque blast. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Kudos.

Aud. 

Hi Max,

My immediate thought is - this doesn't work. But I kept going, as you're obviously enjoying the writing of it, and when that shows you cut it a bit of slack. The set up is the accused defending himself in a way no lawyer would ever do, seemingly the only person to testify. This suits the interrogation phase of an investigation so damned well that the reason I'm thinking it isn't working is because I want this to be across a table from a cop (or two, if you want to play good cop/bad cop on it...). This would justify the less formal approach.

Still, I assumed you had a good reason, so I read on...

The fact they break into the dumpster - is that adequately explained? Would an ex-con (possibly on parole) break the law as part of his job? And of course, unless you're going to plaster the dumpster with "medical waste, for incineration" it's not going to work because aborted babies don't end up in landfill...

As this is a criminal case at this point, the flammibility of the medical waste will be understood (surgical spirits might make for a good joke...) And no one bag is likely to kill 30 people, without burning down the whole church that he is in.

I think the final in prison coda is a little weak. Think of some other ending?

And does the fact our narrator is born again in the dumpster relevant? It doesn't seem so...

You might - now I quickly scan upwards - say why Mitch likes his words so, (did he read a lot when in prison? was his previous crime somehow related?).

And how does the death of his co-worker affect him (whistling in court? I don't think this guy is right in the head, but you can explain both if you need to by referencing back to his recent born again ("I'd mourn, but I knew he was off to a better place" and "I've lived once, whatever this second life brings, is a bonus").

The other thing you need to do is get more observed emotion into the telling - it's very much a dialogue piece at the moment, I want Mr Applebaum mopping his brow when he says "I'm finished here" and I want some more on what Mitch is feeling as he relates his tale.

Anyway, it was at least an entertaining read, if highly implausibe...

Liam

So, clicking around the random button, I found your tale, and the description intrigued me for obvious reasons. And I gotta say, I got what I came for. I've dabbled in the dumpster baby genre myself (is that a genre? damn well should be), and this was some vile but entertaining stuff. And I normally detest courtroom scenes of any kind, but that's probably because there aren't enough dumpster baby play-by-plays on the witness stands. As far as the "born again" gag, I laughed. I think the repetition of him saying "raw material" got kind of tiresome, but I honestly don't know how you'd fix that since you want to have the zinger of a surprise when you reveal what the raw material is. Maybe a couple fewer uses of the phrase? Either way, my only real gripe was the epilogue, which took me out of the urgency of this guy's gooey but hideously captivating story. You could probably mix that epilogue information into the confession, having him consider the after while staying in the now? But ultimately it's your story. Like I said, I enjoy this kind of bold subject matter in a story. Dead babies for President. So here's a dead baby thumb's up.

Hey Max,

Ok so this didn't really work for me. It's a great idea and I love the almost Bizarro take you have but I think it was a little over-written. And I'll add my voice that it's a lot of telling. Don't get me wrong it has a crap ton of potential for sure. The story is almost entirely dialogue. I think you should go back and delete most of your qoutation marks. Make the parts where he's telling the events the narration. It sounds weird because the main character is actually saying these things, rather than the reader being told what is happening by a narrator, if you know what I mean. There are also times where you say baby eater or eating babies or just something about baby eating way too many times. Also "raw materials". It's used constantly. Just try to mix it up more or write the sentence differently. As far as the ending goes I didn't get the prosecuters arguement as to why he killed all those people. What makes him so sure the main character did it? Maybe I missed something. The whole story is the main character giving his side but I don't think we hear the other side of the story. The thirty people go up in flames but doesn't he say that the priest set them on fire. Sure he drops the "raw materials" on them but that won't straight up kill them. The fire is what kills them. If he has an alibi then the court has to consider it right? Couldn't it be ruled an accident? But, the judge says he's guilty. The end. (keep in mind I have zero legal knowledge).  I don't know, just kind of thinking out loud I guess. Well, I hope this wasn't too harsh or anything and gives you some ideas. Cheers. 

Max,

I kind of read it as he was dilusional anyway. It had that whole unreliable narator vibe for me and I dug it. I mean, how many people on the stand in this type of situation are really going to tell the truth? So I assumed he was lying, at first. Then I just assumed he wasn't lying and that he believed what he said.

In real life there wouldn't be "raw material" in that dumpster, unless perhaps the clinic was cutting corners. I feel like rather than previously in prison, maybe Mitch was previously in a mental institution, where he himself gave birth to Born Again Packaging.

I liked the church scene. It varried quite a bit from what I expected to happen. I expected that the last bag he grabbed out of the dumpster, was a bomb placed there by a pro-life activist, which is ironic because when the bomb would actually go off in a church. Or I expected that to be Mitch's story, and I still might had suspected that the bomb came from Mitch himself. The ironic bomb could had been even more humorous and maybe more believable than human compost burning thirty people in a church without killing Mitch, but that's good too and it also contributes to the fact that we as an audience can't really believe anything Mitch tells us. I like that he's gung ho about Born Again. It ties into your themes great. He really believes he's doing a service. Like he's a Karma King or something. Making up for the dead babys by providing biodegradable material for a greener earth. Pretty cool.

Anyway,

I dug this story. I do say work on the dialouge at the begining a bit too. And the ending could be tighter. All that has been mentioned already. Good luck with this one. Thanks for sharing.

--JR--

Hi Max, 

Returning the favour of the review. 

Wow, I'm not going to lie I had to really hard time getting into this one. Maybe this is down to the way the main character here is speaking and over describing everything which does get picked up in the story, but man, it's hard going. 

Now as it went along and they broke into the dumpster and they start to go through getting trapped and it's contense that's when I really wasn't sure myself what was goin on here. As abortion remains go for cremation I wasn''t sure if this was down as a nutty unreliable narator or a straight up or satire on the child abortion issue, it became a bit more clear later on that it was but it did make me stop and break the flow of the story to think about it. 

Now for the shock of the bags contense as the prosecution goes first in a court of law then this would have already been mentioned to the court as they would have had the main characters story to go on and the police had to follow this up afterward. Now for the story this could mean that the crowd are right on his back from the off and also could be a way of drawing in the reader better at the start, If the crowd are going mental even before he's spoken that would have really made me press on more.  

Which goes for the born again bit. Made no sense to be in the story for me. Is that him just trying to get the favour of the jury? Confusing. 

Why does he grab a bag for processing after his partner is killed, I'd be calling an ambulance or cops possibly? 

The last paragargh doesn't really feel a satisifying way to end it out on, I would just cut it and end it with him going back to jail. and the shit storm that comes when everyone fings out what his old company does, I know your working on this looking at your comments so nay worries. 

The most orginal story I've read so far in the comp. Keep it up mate, hope this helps. 

Dave.

I liked this. There were a few problems in terms of believability which I'll get to later, but for the most part I enjoyed the humour and shock-factor so much that it suspended my disbelief. The narrator is a nice mixture of insolent and humble, I feel like it works. I didn't really feel Clyde come alive, but Applebaum was a nice comic foil -- the 'straight man' to the narrator -- and the courtroom set up enabled this well. 

Re: Believability, as I said I liked how over the top the story was, but the whole bits of baby I felt was a little contrived to add to the shock factor. Like fair enough there is discharge and waste in abortions but I highly doubt you'd see any legs or anything; abortions to my knowledge (though I'm no expert) generally occur when the embryos are fucking tiny; I doubt limbs would be discernable from just a general sludginess. But that's the only thing that irked me, I was happy to suspend disbelief that Born Again Packaging manufactures abortion discharge into dental floss, so I guess that shows some good writing.

Secondly, I just don't know if the feminist protestors would be wanting to kill Clyde (correct me if I'm wrong on that point) and the narrator alongside the anti-abortion ones. Their (our, I suppose) whole schtick is that abortions and aborted foetuses shouldn't be stigmatised and abortions are an issue of choice. 

But these things aside, a nice story. I liked the courtroom structure and the main character was sympathetic depsite the high level fucked up crime the story centres around. Thumbs up from me!

Tom

Hi Max,

I apologise but I couldn't quite get into this one, and for two main reasons.

The first one was that the main character was too wordy. I get that this was to try and make him likeable and interesting (I guess a charming cockiness is the aim to work with the born-again speech), but where the prosecutor and judge were getting frustrated with him not getting to the point I found that I was the same. I also thought the judge told him off for it too many times, and that many of his conversational tangents were irrelevent to the story - not just the case (incidentally, surely if his job is emptying dumpsters, he'd know whether it was a roof or door!)

The second was that I just didn't get the content. It was gross, and made me dislike the characters who were recycling the babies - so that was good in terms of the writing - but I just couldn't believe that this could ever happen. People finding abortion waste in a dumpster, and carrying it around in a bin bag just wasn't realistic for me.

Oh a more positive note though - in the second half - once the details of what the main character had been doing came out, I thought that the writing improved drastically. He was more interesting, seemed to have found his voice and the interactions of others in the courtroom were good.

Sorry that I didn't quite get it - but I hope that my feedback is useful. Feel free to message me if you have any further questions!

Matty

Well I liked it. It was disgusting, but didn't feel like you were desperately trying to shock the reader, which is a good thing. Nice.

You have a lot of comments here already, so I'll just share my thoughts, and hope that they helpful. There are some really funny bits in this, I especially like the "crisp and shiny" APPLEbaum. I understand that you were trying to create light banter and a potentially unreliable main character while  Mr. Applebaum interrogated Mitch, but it slowed me down a lot. Constantly bringing up irrelevant facts and being shot down is playful for a bit, but it becomes distracting after a  while. I would also have liked to have some more focus on the actual crime.

This is a fun read so I won't harp on technicalities like a fully developed baby's foot being tossed in a trash bag with a shrug, but I do think that people accusing Mitch of cannibalism is a little unbelievable, after all he does explain that the sludge gets in his mouth by accident. I'm not sure if this is actually a point, since it's obviously done for comedic effect.

The only other thing I can think of is, possibly developing Mitch's past so we know what kind of guy he is and have some context. You mention that he's been in jail, maybe go a little deeper into that; you can still keep his character ambiguous if that's your intention.

Overall, you did a good job writing the story, whether it's a crime story or not, the critics can decide. Dead baby humor seems to really work for some people and personally offend others. I'm glad you didn't have any P.C. qualms about developing the story you wanted to write. Kudos. I know that I have a few friends that would absolutely adore this story