Just happened to think about this. For example me myself, I am manic depressive, and I get good vibes from achieving and over doing things. Same goes for love, I can't get credit for the gratuitous smile on her face every time we meet, I feel good when I deserve seeing her smile. But maybe narsistic personalities work differently, when they fall in love, they expect to be worshipped, and maybe they interpret every little gesture as an affection of love directed at their direction. When they can't find those, maybe they become anxious and try to figure out how to be more wanted.
Anyway, I'll open up my thoughts about this bit more after you have taken your part of the discussion!
I guess I am a little confused by the question. You're asking individually what it's like?
First a crush is different from falling in love and there is such a thing as falling in lust.
A crush is: Holy shit, this girl is amazing! I can't wait to see her again (despite flaws obvious to everyone else)
Lust is: Holy shit, I would do anything to get this girl in the sack (normally carried by regret later for various reasons)
Love is: Holy shit, I would do anything to make this girl happy. (You're aware of any flaws, but they don't matter)
Narcissistic love is either manifest by a combination of crush and lust, but also coupled with several things such as: Holy shit, I can't bear to be alone, or she's mine dammit!
Then there is co-dependency, which is far more common and characterized by: Holy shit, my emotional state is totally controlled by the actions of this person. I need them!
There are two problems with quantifying what you're talking about. First it is by nature very individual. Second, the English language is hopelessly imprecise in expressing it and unfortunately some people are too emotionally immature to know the difference between them and that is a solid reason why people end in relationships that don't work.
If you're writing about falling in love, it would behoove you to know the difference, even if your characters don't. In the end we're all terribly inadequate at describing it and just as lost as everyone else.
I would characterize a crush as thinking someone is awesome and idealizing from a distance, basically knowing rationally you will never be with them.
Let's drop off the definitions and concentrate on the experience, for me the experience feels more fertile grounds to plant my seeds on for all the grand thoughts about love.
And let's primarily discuss about crush, since it is more frequent and familiar experience, and because love is grand and sometimes life changing experience. The way we love is more often substance for change, crushes have more pathological ring to it and maybe relfects our personality better.
So let's reset the question: How do you act when you have a crush on someone? And describe it in a way that I could write about it ;)
I almost feel like you should just Google 'how do you act when you have a crush on someone' and take it from there.
No sense having everyone do the work for you if the material is out there...not unless they really feel like sharing what you may potentially take for your own usage.
And I gotta say, I'm a little torn on these 'how do you feel when (blank) is happening' threads. It seems like a cheat in the research process. The forum is a resource, yes, but explaining how feelings work so that you may chop up the answers and use them for yourself comes off a little shady.
I might be the minority in that regard, but can you at least attempt to derive from your own experiences?
@Brandon - how dare you assume I would have experiences of my own!
Brandon, you interview people for research, right? You ask them how they felt when so and so happened, or what happened when they were young, or whatever. Asking on here is exactly the same. Also, the main point is not to get everything written for you, but to pick up on a single tiny idea that sparks inspiration, that comes from one small sentence that someone said in the middle of a load of nonsense. Sometimes you need that, a line from a film, a story on the news, an article in a magazine. Or someone saying "it's like marshmallows", which sparks the direction for several paragraphs, comparing falling in love to sipping a hot chocolate. Or whatever.
Like I said, I'm probably the minority on it.
In my mind it's like, okay, if I really take the time to give my two cents on this, I'm basically giving license for literally anyone to use it. This is a public forum, after all. And then where does that leave me if I want to use it?
What if I want to use the "it's like marshmallows" metaphor?
It is like marshmallows.
I saw coconut marshmallows at the store the other day
Get them. They are delicious. They taste like a crush.
Wow, this degenerated into absurdity fast. And I totally agree with everything in it.
(Mmm...marshmallows...)
I love consumating mine by dropping them (the marshmallows of love) into the steaming-hot cup of cocoa that is the sexless, longterm relationship. Warm, yummy misery. Melting my heart away...
But yeah, researching on a public forum for something as abstract and universal as love is like having a scene in your novel where some overweight middle-class white dude eats a Big Mac and chats about the latest Call of Duty Xbox game. It's flavorless, pointless, and probably very trite.
I think I can settle this. Research is like this "I am writing a novel about combat veterans, but I am not a combat veteran. Has anyone here been in a combat situation? Would you be willing to tell me about it?"
Asking for people to write descriptions for you is like this "describe the way it feels to do this thing almost everyone on planet Earth has done."
I might be willing to share specific experiences, or talk about how certain things affected me--but I am probably not going to sit around crafting awesome descriptions about how specific things feel for another writer.
And it is like marshmallows.
And like a goddamned idiot.
And like a goddamned idiot."
Best simile I ever wrote.
And we all stole it! See? Moral there.
And we all stole it! See? Moral there."
Terrorists! A gem like that however should be shared.
SparrowStark, I completely agree. Very fair point.
Also, loving how the marshmallow thing has taken off. One question though, pink or white ones?
The coconut ones were brown
Also, loving how the marshmallow thing has taken off. One question though, pink or white ones?"
She was a marshmallow burned black and still soft on the inside.
@Matt Attack - I hate that sooooooo much
And so I said to my smouldering black marshmallow lover, "Show me your pink bits."
@Matt Attack - I hate that sooooooo much"
I appreciate you letting me know.
Any time!!
The pink/white/brown/burnt marshmallow question really depends on the person, doesn't it? I am like a burnt marshmallow. Crispy, hung from a stick and bathed in fire--but somehow softer, sweeter and more delicious for the experience. If you're looking for a pink marshmallow experience, I'm not your girl.
I was not even aware there were pink ones and I'm afraid of change.
There are also those pastel green ones...but I think that's just food coloring, not a flavor.
Oh the fickle green marshmallows, all show and no substance. How they break your heart.
See? It continues to work.
I'm a genius.
Obviously.
I watched a pretty epic documentary on Chernobyl the other day on YouTube. I suspect that's where the green ones come from.
[I think fluff is my favorite form of marshmallow.]
I think Brandon is basically right. But in this case, as of the fourth comment, A.A. is explicitly asking for stuff he can use, which is different from going and lifting something from somebody's writing without their knowledge and consent. Remember that newspaper who stole content from a guy's blog and gave no credit? (LitReactor did a story on it.) From what I remember, the blog was as public as this forum. You don't need permission to link to a website; you do need permission to use the actual content. Of course, you can read or hear a thought or idea and rework it (consciously or subconsciously) and not technically be plagiarizing (depending on how distinct your work is from the original and on the way you present your work.)
JY--Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that it is an attempt to get some work done for him, and it doesn't change the attitude that most people don't want to do that.
When you have a crush, or fall in love, how does it feel? How do you experience it?"
I feel silly. And insecure. And happy.
The moment, when you have been conducting research by reading an extensive and exquisite Borderline Disorder blog, and discover a new perspective of reflecting something as familiar as love and crushes. Sure, it feels like a good idea to write a post about it at a writers forum in hopes of more new perspectives on contemplating about it. The next morning you wake up, anxious to see all the intelligent and insightful perspectives. Not only was your opening setting of the question completely inadequate to guide and foster the discussion to become anything like the original idea in your mind, but you also made the most obvious newbie mistake of writing a "How do you feel..."-thread. Awkward.
And the marshmallows... I am not a marshmallow virgo, but I haven't had one for fifteen years. How does one feel like? Is it a life changing experience to have one? Oh, wait, I'll make a new thread for it, it's good to keep separate discussion on separate threads!
And paranoia for someone to steal your ideas, on something as basic as love, is a symptom of Dunning-Krueger effect. Wait! Don't use it! I am sure you never heard of it before, and it's the secret recepie for the American Idol! What have I done... no one will ever read my writings now, because someone will write my writings before I do... darn.
For me it would really depend on their reaction to my crush/love. When they react well it is almost like being high, when they react how I wish they wouldn't I'm very cold.
I'm not worried about anyone stealing my ideas. It has all be done before, and honestly we are all so busy without our own ideas that we'll never get caught up, much less done.
RE: the main point --- A crush is like a mental boner.
___________________________________________
D-K effect works both ways: "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others" --- meaning someone whose ideas actually are worth stealing may be discouraged from giving a shit by people who really believe it has all been done before.
It has not all been done before unless you're thinking only in the abstract; and if you think only in the abstract, specific ideas are not part of the equation. Therefore, a discussion of idea-theft is not addressed by bringing up generalities about how "it has all been done before."
@Ahti
And paranoia for someone to steal your ideas, on something as basic as love, is a symptom of Dunning-Krueger effect. Wait! Don't use it! I am sure you never heard of it before, and it's the secret recepie for the American Idol! What have I done... no one will ever read my writings now, because someone will write my writings before I do... darn.
Couldn't be happier with my response...especially after reading yours. And thank you for the Dunning-Krueger jab. It's good to be put in your place by a guy with no credentials and next to no experience.
Get down off the cross people, somebody needs the wood.
Jeez I am getting tired of noobs coming in and defining words and phrases like a group full or writers must have a smaller than normal vocabulary.
No one is paranoid you'll steal, we're pointing out that you are being lazy and asking others to do the work for you. The term for that is "Lazy". I'll let you google that yourself.
Hey I just reread all this to make sure I hadn't missed why everyone has knives out. I don't think I did, but I have a question.
@Matt - I agree that no one understand loves much better then the average Joe, but isn't a important part of writing being able to describe something you don't understand in a believable way?
No no no, let him do it his way. He obviously has a handle on this whole thing.
Boy, the sharks are in the water today, aren't they? Some of you guys need a Colorado vacation.
I need a Colorado vacation!
Look, the guy asked a question. I personally avoided this thread because I didn't particularly want to answer. Nothing in particular against the premise, it's just not a question that I find all that enchanting. So I didn't actually wander in here until just now.
I agree with Brandon that this method of "research" is basically just inviting yourself to eat somebody else's leftovers and isn't going to contribute to Ahti's creativity in a very meaningful way. And I'd recomment Ahti take the majority of his cues from his own version of the mostly-universally-shared experience of infatuation-love-hate-bathing-yourself-in-gasoline-because-she-doesn't-find-you-interesting. It's only your own ideas that feel real to you anyway, and you can't write in a believeable manner it what you're writing about doesn't feel grounded in some kind of reality.
But Jesus.
You don't want to answer his question, don't answer his question. You're under no obligation.
Yeah, the guy got a bit snippy when he came back from whatever he was doing. Likely because in the interim, without him here to fan the flames, everybody got together and gave him a sound beating for asking your opinions. I think I might feel a bit frustrated as well.
@Matt - I agree that no one understand loves much better then the average Joe, but isn't a important part of writing being able to describe something you don't understand in a believable way?"
True, but he's wanting us to do the work for him, basically. The best advice I can really give him is:
- Find a girl
- Ask her out
- Fall in love
- If not married after two years, began at step one again and repeat.
After three or four go-rounds, write.
True, but he's wanting us to do the work for him, basically. The best advice I can really give him is:
Find a girl
Ask her out
Fall in love
If not married after two years,began at step one again and repeat.
LOL @ Dave. Addendum accepted. You=Win.
A crush is when something lands on you suddenly. Falling happens when you trip over something. That explains everything to me.
Use the same words you'd use to describe a tree hitting you on the head or a bus landing on you to describe a crush. Use words that you'd use to describe being clumsy and landing on your face/ass to describe falling in love.
Adjusting to this community might take awhile.
Note to self: Since I've never been good at the old good natured irony, remember to use smilies or other underlining methods to get it across throught the Internet.
WAIT! Now I noticed what f**ked up the thread: "And describe it in a way that I could write about it ;)", hmm... how did that brain fart get there? So it's my bad after all. I guess what I wanted to say was to "write with such detail that I can dig into it", a stupid mistake probably made in a hurry. Or maybe I just meant what I said... my favorite method of research is interviews after all, and that's the phrase I use in order to get the interviewee to pay attention for details. Dunno. But all in all, my bad, didn't pay enough attention to the choice of words and the possibility of misinterprating it as "lazyness".
My original intention was to provoke discussion about the topic, since I love to break things to pieces, try to analyze them for patterns and see if there is something that feels to have the sense of mildly universal quality in it.
But something good comes out of everything, wouldn't had chekced out Brandons's profile without this mishap, and I might review his short story tomorrow ;) At least it has gotten very good ratings, looking forward to check out something that really has been clearly community approved.
Does Brandon have a new one in the workshop or is that the one from eons ago? I'm not trying to be confrontational, but if you want to review something I suggest something newer. Too many reviews can suck for the author, and if it is the story I am thinking of, I think it has been published already. Some people take their entries down and some don't. If it is the one I am thinking of, you should definitely read it, because it's good ;) But I'd look for something a little newer to review so the author gets something out of it.
Oh! Oh! Oh! You want a good read that is sure to be "community approved" but is still new in the workshop? You can't go wrong with BryanHowie. He is a great writer and our most famous reviewer. I just saw that he has a story in the workshop now.
It's a very rough draft that I almost abandoned but thought I might give it a try after a workshop injection of comments. The first two comments have really enlightened me to as what was missing.
