Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryDecember 31, 2011 - 12:10pm
I know that I sound a lot like Dr. Chuck Seuss. All this rhyming becomes disconcerting.
Nick Wilczynski
from Greensboro, NC is reading A Dance with Dragons by George R.R. MartinDecember 31, 2011 - 12:56pm
Nononono utah.
I know that I sound a lot like Dr. Chuck Seuss,
Who writes Lullabies, Diaries, Green Eggs and Moose,
But all of the Whos down in all the Who stores,
Won't buy my knockoffs of Poe anymore.
-
While we're talking about ripping off ideas, what about those musicians who play cover songs:
Flaminia Ferina
from Umbria is reading stuffJanuary 1, 2012 - 2:19pm
Love this track, Nick.
We live in the era of remixes, don't we? I'm not advocating plagiarism, but we must come to terms with us being part of a big whole, thus permeable to each other. We basically just grind old stuff and revise all the time.
Or part of a big hole, I don't remember.
Nick Wilczynski
from Greensboro, NC is reading A Dance with Dragons by George R.R. MartinJanuary 1, 2012 - 3:23pm
The whole Meloy does Morrissey album is really good, my favorite one is probably "Every Day is Like Sunday." I think the version I have on my computer is a Live Version though (a solo Colin show, but he's about as good live by himself as he is with his band (no offense to them, best Live Show ever)). One of the reasons I got excited when I discovered folk-punk is because I am a huge Decemberists fan (like, people talk shit about the concept albums but I for one love Hazards of Love and The Crane Wife as much as I love Picaresque or Castaways and Cutouts).
Of course, doing covers, no matter how well they are done, does take away Meloy's real strength which is as a lyricist.
The concept of a zeitgeist kind of implies that artists who are contemporaries of one another will explore similar themes and will be influenced by similar predecessors and events.
But when I evaluate the zeitgeist of the current era I'm not moved by Chuck's influence as much as I am by David Foster Wallace's. DFW didn't write a bad book, a lot of the style and structural innovations he came up with ended up being used by and influencing people like Chuck and his themes were very 21st Century. Now, we don't all use the same sort of stilted language that David did, his skill and finesse are harder to emulate and his thought patterns were so dense that I can't imagine people trying to emulate them. But if you want a pioneer of the modern literary zeitgeist it's Wallace, not Palahniuk.
Maybe I'm just bitter because I hated every book he's written since Rant (and definately including Rant, a book that I finished wondering why "that was so terrible, will he ever be able to write a good book again?" But when he comes up with a new one I go and give it a shot, because I remember Lullabye and I remember Fight Club, and I would settle for another weird fucking Invisible Monsters book, but what do I get instead?
A fucking knockoff of a John Hughes movie. I didn't like Breakfast Club in the first place.
aliensoul77
from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall.January 1, 2012 - 11:29pm
Blasphemy! Breakfast Club is the quintessential movie of the 80's.
Nick Wilczynski
from Greensboro, NC is reading A Dance with Dragons by George R.R. MartinJanuary 1, 2012 - 11:45pm
Good for the 80's. That's why I got the hell out of that decade as soon as I was 4.
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersJanuary 2, 2012 - 6:28am
John Hughes was completely awesome.
postpomo
from Canada is reading words words wordsJanuary 2, 2012 - 6:44am
but his movies were the worst kind of sentimental cheese.
Flaminia Ferina
from Umbria is reading stuffJanuary 2, 2012 - 7:23am
This is getting un-Chuck. I'm out.
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersJanuary 2, 2012 - 7:27am
I don't know, I think Reach the Rock isn't so cheesy.
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestJanuary 2, 2012 - 7:31am
This whole thread reads like a disjointed Chuck book. Some one should rearrange all the posts into something coherent and submit to the workshop.
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersJanuary 2, 2012 - 7:35am
That's what John Hughes would have done.
postpomo
from Canada is reading words words wordsJanuary 2, 2012 - 8:01am
I thought I would reintroduce some trolling - plus I'm recovering from 80s cultural trauma...
Fylh
from from from is reading is from is reading is reading is reading reading is readingJanuary 2, 2012 - 8:43am
I heard Chuck loves John Hughes.
bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.January 2, 2012 - 11:46am
I hear that they are the same person.
postpomo
from Canada is reading words words wordsJanuary 2, 2012 - 1:08pm
Breakfast Fight Club
Nighty Nite
from NJ is reading Grimscribe: His Lives and WorksJanuary 2, 2012 - 1:20pm
Whoa whoa whoa.
Colin Meloy did a cover of Jack the Ripper and I haven't heard it? I'm ashamed.
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestJanuary 2, 2012 - 9:15pm
Breakfast Fight Club
- Nice...
aliensoul77
from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall.January 2, 2012 - 9:26pm
Tony the Tiger versus Snap, Crackle and Pop!
I think Family Guy did a tangent on it already...
Charles
from Portland is reading Mongrels by Stephen Graham JonesJanuary 2, 2012 - 11:03pm
it's important to note that minimalism sounds sort of similar. what chuck does, this whole 'sound-like-chuck' thing has to do with his comparisons, which aren't even his. not really, anyway. one of the coolest lessons to take from someone like tom spanbauer is that everything looks like, tastes like, smells like, fucks like something else. it's a mechanic that keeps the reader involved in what shit looks like within your story. you arent telling the reader that the moonlight makes your skin look dead, you're saying "under this moon, in this light, if i were to pull my dick out, it would be the color of ice cubes."
see the difference?
and then, there's the whole "burnt tongue" thing that comes purely from dangerous writing. the destruction of grammar and perfection in order to reproduce an accurate human voice, down to.... let's say... how the two main characters of choke say 'for serious' instead of 'for real'.
now, since we're all here, we can take these lessons which are from one school of thought, being the one that comes from palahniuk and spanbauer, and we can couple that with clevenger's notion of status play, and writing detail, or stephen jones' ideas regarding genre fiction, and you have something which is unique to you, or to me, or mark vanderpool or anyone else here. writing for this particular group of people is more like eyeballing a recipe until it's perfect, and no one can make the same damn cookies you can.
jl85
from originally East Tennessee now Southern California is reading everything I canJanuary 3, 2012 - 12:33am
Charles you forgot to include Amy Hempel in the Spanbauer/Palahniuk circle.
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestJanuary 3, 2012 - 1:13am
@Charles: Great way to really break it down. Nicely said/written.
Nick Wilczynski
from Greensboro, NC is reading A Dance with Dragons by George R.R. MartinJanuary 3, 2012 - 3:42am
I'll bet Charles tastes just like chicken.
Fylh
from from from is reading is from is reading is reading is reading reading is readingJanuary 3, 2012 - 4:57am
Hemingway was a hardcore minimalist who actually thought through what he was doing. Not much comes close, from what I've read of other "minimalists".
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersJanuary 3, 2012 - 6:02am
@Phil - Hemingway was the absolute king of minimalist. He worked really hard at it. And he did it so well it's stupid. I went through a Hemingway phase a couple years ago. No one could understand a thing I was writing! I left out the "so well" part and just did it stupid.
PopeyeDoyle
January 3, 2012 - 8:05am
Hemingway was a hardcore minimalist who actually thought through what he was doing. Not much comes close, from what I've read of other "minimalists".
I'm not sure that "They're no Hemingway!" is a fair criticism of the minimalist writers. No other writer in the 20th century was as good as Hemingway.
Fylh
from from from is reading is from is reading is reading is reading reading is readingJanuary 3, 2012 - 8:06am
Well, that's hardly fair either.
postpomo
from Canada is reading words words wordsJanuary 3, 2012 - 9:25am
No other writer in the 20th century was as good as Hemingway.
um, no.
PopeyeDoyle
January 3, 2012 - 9:47am
um, no.
Si.
Fylh
from from from is reading is from is reading is reading is reading reading is readingJanuary 3, 2012 - 9:50am
So if one were to ask you this relevant but banal question: "Have you read even five percent of all books written in the 20th century?" you would have a convincing answer?
I have great respect for Hemingway. But, uh, yeah.
PopeyeDoyle
January 3, 2012 - 9:52am
So if one were to ask you this relevant but banal question: "Have you read even five percent of all books written in the 20th century?" you would have a convincing answer?
I haven't tried every flavor of ice cream, but I still know that Mint Cookies and Cream is the greatest tasting ice cream that's ever existed. Some things you just know.
Fylh
from from from is reading is from is reading is reading is reading reading is readingJanuary 3, 2012 - 9:54am
Sure, but some things you just know because they smell like your own shit.
PopeyeDoyle
January 3, 2012 - 9:56am
Sure, but some things you just know because they smell like your own shit.
Is that, like, an Eastern thing, or...?
Fylh
from from from is reading is from is reading is reading is reading reading is readingJanuary 3, 2012 - 9:56am
Nope, American, like Hemingway and strong opinions.
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryJanuary 3, 2012 - 12:16pm
I smell exactly like John Hughes.
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersJanuary 3, 2012 - 12:58pm
He's dead isn't he?
PopeyeDoyle
January 3, 2012 - 1:29pm
Heroes get remembered, but legends never die.
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersJanuary 3, 2012 - 1:34pm
...but that smell will stay in your upholstery forever....
Dwayne
from Cincinnati, Ohio (suburbs) is reading books that rotate to often to keep this updatedJanuary 3, 2012 - 1:53pm
@averydoll - Richard Bachman is dead too.
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryJanuary 3, 2012 - 2:41pm
Wait. I thought Chuck P. was John Hughes.
Liana
from Romania and Texas is reading Naked LunchJanuary 3, 2012 - 3:20pm
With all due respect to minimalists, I think I'm more partial to those who unpack their language to the point that sometimes it's hard to find a period in there. I like reflective narratives, not necessarily descriptive but that doesn't hurt. From Conrad to Faulkner to McCarthy to Nabokov. Not necessarily stream of consciousness either - I just like to see a writer who has an eye for detail and can project on that detail a vision of the world. So that's why Hemingway is a good writer in his own right, but not the best by all accounts or for all tastes.
Fylh
from from from is reading is from is reading is reading is reading reading is readingJanuary 3, 2012 - 3:31pm
I agree with Liana here, I'd pick Conrad and Faulkner over most "stripped-down" writers simply because reading those sprawling sentences makes me want to hurt someone with love.
bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.January 3, 2012 - 4:51pm
I think that Chuck sounds like all of us put together in a giant blender with a dash of tequilla and lime and pureed. Served over ice.
Liana
from Romania and Texas is reading Naked LunchJanuary 3, 2012 - 7:34pm
I am the worm at the bottom!
aliensoul77
from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall.January 3, 2012 - 9:06pm
I like stream of consciousness writing that goes on forever and makes absolutely no sense and has no periods and doesn't bother using corect grammer or anything and just goes on and on and on without any regard for punctuation or rules of literature or anything so that i can say that i am totallllly OrIgInAl.
In the future all novels will be written in text speak.
It wuz a drk n strmy nght.
4# n 7 yrs ago
proust<hemingway
dean koontz=stephen king - clive barker + anne rice % bentley little
Flaminia Ferina
from Umbria is reading stuffJanuary 4, 2012 - 4:17am
I hate to say it Danny, but I'm afraid a book fo really written in txt would become an instant best seller.
Me for one, I was so close to buying the bible in lolspeak.
Laramore Black
from Joplin, Missouri is reading Mario Kart 8January 4, 2012 - 6:16am
I only go to him for good gardening tips, personally.
aliensoul77
from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall.January 5, 2012 - 5:44pm
Genesis:
God=adam+eve, minus tree of knowledge, eve +snake=banishment
jesus+god+holy spirit = 1 entity,
jesus = son of god + holy spirit but seperate consciousness????? a + b = p?
jesus=jew, crucifixtion, resurrection, everlasting light a + b = c + d
Revelation
lucifer + four horsemen + lake of fire = 1000 years of torment
dragon + whore + rapture = happy christian!
The bible made easy!
Dr. Gonzo
from Manchester, UK is reading Blood MeridianJanuary 7, 2012 - 7:28am
If Bret Easton Ellis and Chuck Palahniuk adopted a child and then let Clevenger babysit while they went on a gay cruise, I would be that child.
Flaminia Ferina
from Umbria is reading stuffJanuary 7, 2012 - 7:48am
Old Testament = Sin + Thunder + Monsters + Lust + Gore + Blood + Slaughter + Incest + Eternal Damnation
I know that I sound a lot like Dr. Chuck Seuss. All this rhyming becomes disconcerting.
Nononono utah.
I know that I sound a lot like Dr. Chuck Seuss,
Who writes Lullabies, Diaries, Green Eggs and Moose,
But all of the Whos down in all the Who stores,
Won't buy my knockoffs of Poe anymore.
-
While we're talking about ripping off ideas, what about those musicians who play cover songs:
Love this track, Nick.
We live in the era of remixes, don't we? I'm not advocating plagiarism, but we must come to terms with us being part of a big whole, thus permeable to each other. We basically just grind old stuff and revise all the time.
Or part of a big hole, I don't remember.
The whole Meloy does Morrissey album is really good, my favorite one is probably "Every Day is Like Sunday." I think the version I have on my computer is a Live Version though (a solo Colin show, but he's about as good live by himself as he is with his band (no offense to them, best Live Show ever)). One of the reasons I got excited when I discovered folk-punk is because I am a huge Decemberists fan (like, people talk shit about the concept albums but I for one love Hazards of Love and The Crane Wife as much as I love Picaresque or Castaways and Cutouts).
Of course, doing covers, no matter how well they are done, does take away Meloy's real strength which is as a lyricist.
The concept of a zeitgeist kind of implies that artists who are contemporaries of one another will explore similar themes and will be influenced by similar predecessors and events.
But when I evaluate the zeitgeist of the current era I'm not moved by Chuck's influence as much as I am by David Foster Wallace's. DFW didn't write a bad book, a lot of the style and structural innovations he came up with ended up being used by and influencing people like Chuck and his themes were very 21st Century. Now, we don't all use the same sort of stilted language that David did, his skill and finesse are harder to emulate and his thought patterns were so dense that I can't imagine people trying to emulate them. But if you want a pioneer of the modern literary zeitgeist it's Wallace, not Palahniuk.
Maybe I'm just bitter because I hated every book he's written since Rant (and definately including Rant, a book that I finished wondering why "that was so terrible, will he ever be able to write a good book again?" But when he comes up with a new one I go and give it a shot, because I remember Lullabye and I remember Fight Club, and I would settle for another weird fucking Invisible Monsters book, but what do I get instead?
A fucking knockoff of a John Hughes movie. I didn't like Breakfast Club in the first place.
Blasphemy! Breakfast Club is the quintessential movie of the 80's.
Good for the 80's. That's why I got the hell out of that decade as soon as I was 4.
John Hughes was completely awesome.
but his movies were the worst kind of sentimental cheese.
This is getting un-Chuck. I'm out.
I don't know, I think Reach the Rock isn't so cheesy.
This whole thread reads like a disjointed Chuck book. Some one should rearrange all the posts into something coherent and submit to the workshop.
That's what John Hughes would have done.
I thought I would reintroduce some trolling - plus I'm recovering from 80s cultural trauma...
I heard Chuck loves John Hughes.
I hear that they are the same person.
Breakfast Fight Club
Whoa whoa whoa.
Colin Meloy did a cover of Jack the Ripper and I haven't heard it? I'm ashamed.
Tony the Tiger versus Snap, Crackle and Pop!
I think Family Guy did a tangent on it already...
it's important to note that minimalism sounds sort of similar. what chuck does, this whole 'sound-like-chuck' thing has to do with his comparisons, which aren't even his. not really, anyway. one of the coolest lessons to take from someone like tom spanbauer is that everything looks like, tastes like, smells like, fucks like something else. it's a mechanic that keeps the reader involved in what shit looks like within your story. you arent telling the reader that the moonlight makes your skin look dead, you're saying "under this moon, in this light, if i were to pull my dick out, it would be the color of ice cubes."
see the difference?
and then, there's the whole "burnt tongue" thing that comes purely from dangerous writing. the destruction of grammar and perfection in order to reproduce an accurate human voice, down to.... let's say... how the two main characters of choke say 'for serious' instead of 'for real'.
now, since we're all here, we can take these lessons which are from one school of thought, being the one that comes from palahniuk and spanbauer, and we can couple that with clevenger's notion of status play, and writing detail, or stephen jones' ideas regarding genre fiction, and you have something which is unique to you, or to me, or mark vanderpool or anyone else here. writing for this particular group of people is more like eyeballing a recipe until it's perfect, and no one can make the same damn cookies you can.
Charles you forgot to include Amy Hempel in the Spanbauer/Palahniuk circle.
@Charles: Great way to really break it down. Nicely said/written.
I'll bet Charles tastes just like chicken.
Hemingway was a hardcore minimalist who actually thought through what he was doing. Not much comes close, from what I've read of other "minimalists".
@Phil - Hemingway was the absolute king of minimalist. He worked really hard at it. And he did it so well it's stupid. I went through a Hemingway phase a couple years ago. No one could understand a thing I was writing! I left out the "so well" part and just did it stupid.
I'm not sure that "They're no Hemingway!" is a fair criticism of the minimalist writers. No other writer in the 20th century was as good as Hemingway.
Well, that's hardly fair either.
Si.
So if one were to ask you this relevant but banal question: "Have you read even five percent of all books written in the 20th century?" you would have a convincing answer?
I have great respect for Hemingway. But, uh, yeah.
I haven't tried every flavor of ice cream, but I still know that Mint Cookies and Cream is the greatest tasting ice cream that's ever existed. Some things you just know.
Sure, but some things you just know because they smell like your own shit.
Is that, like, an Eastern thing, or...?
Nope, American, like Hemingway and strong opinions.
I smell exactly like John Hughes.
He's dead isn't he?
Heroes get remembered, but legends never die.
...but that smell will stay in your upholstery forever....
@averydoll - Richard Bachman is dead too.
Wait. I thought Chuck P. was John Hughes.
With all due respect to minimalists, I think I'm more partial to those who unpack their language to the point that sometimes it's hard to find a period in there. I like reflective narratives, not necessarily descriptive but that doesn't hurt. From Conrad to Faulkner to McCarthy to Nabokov. Not necessarily stream of consciousness either - I just like to see a writer who has an eye for detail and can project on that detail a vision of the world. So that's why Hemingway is a good writer in his own right, but not the best by all accounts or for all tastes.
I agree with Liana here, I'd pick Conrad and Faulkner over most "stripped-down" writers simply because reading those sprawling sentences makes me want to hurt someone with love.
I think that Chuck sounds like all of us put together in a giant blender with a dash of tequilla and lime and pureed. Served over ice.
I am the worm at the bottom!
I like stream of consciousness writing that goes on forever and makes absolutely no sense and has no periods and doesn't bother using corect grammer or anything and just goes on and on and on without any regard for punctuation or rules of literature or anything so that i can say that i am totallllly OrIgInAl.
In the future all novels will be written in text speak.
It wuz a drk n strmy nght.
4# n 7 yrs ago
proust<hemingway
dean koontz=stephen king - clive barker + anne rice % bentley little
I hate to say it Danny, but I'm afraid a book fo really written in txt would become an instant best seller.
Me for one, I was so close to buying the bible in lolspeak.
I only go to him for good gardening tips, personally.
Genesis:
God=adam+eve, minus tree of knowledge, eve +snake=banishment
jesus+god+holy spirit = 1 entity,
jesus = son of god + holy spirit but seperate consciousness????? a + b = p?
jesus=jew, crucifixtion, resurrection, everlasting light a + b = c + d
Revelation
lucifer + four horsemen + lake of fire = 1000 years of torment
dragon + whore + rapture = happy christian!
The bible made easy!
If Bret Easton Ellis and Chuck Palahniuk adopted a child and then let Clevenger babysit while they went on a gay cruise, I would be that child.
Old Testament = Sin + Thunder + Monsters + Lust + Gore + Blood + Slaughter + Incest + Eternal Damnation
New Testament = first hippies outbreak ever