Matt Attack's picture
Matt Attack from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner February 23, 2012 - 6:47pm

So when we get all this nitty gritty ironed out, we are going to have just one set of rules posted somewhere correct?

Fritz's picture
Fritz February 23, 2012 - 6:55pm

@ utah. I so have you

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry February 23, 2012 - 6:58pm

@Matt:  Yeah, once it's in stone (which shouldn't be long) you'll see it in an update in the first post on this thread.

@Fritz:  well...okay...

Nick Wilczynski's picture
Nick Wilczynski from Greensboro, NC is reading A Dance with Dragons by George R.R. Martin February 23, 2012 - 7:26pm

Americantypo's picture
Americantypo from Philadelphia is reading The Song of Kali February 23, 2012 - 7:54pm

I've been sort of looking at this from the outside, unsure if I was going to jump in or not. But... if the prize is a free class, I am sooooo in.

However if its just props, it might be better if I just focus on the hundred projects I already got going.

Americantypo's picture
Americantypo from Philadelphia is reading The Song of Kali February 23, 2012 - 7:56pm

Oh fuck the prize, I'm in it regardless. It'll be a good kick in the ass to keep writing new material.

Americantypo's picture
Americantypo from Philadelphia is reading The Song of Kali February 23, 2012 - 8:35pm

Also, regarding word count- would it be possible to have it be a minimum of 1,000 words and a max of 3,000? I don't think I'd be able to participate if it was as little as a thousand words as I often have trouble writing stories that short, and I know other people would find it stressful to have to write as much as 2,500 (the original word count posted earlier). Maybe 1000-3000 would make for something a little more flexible for everyone and people can decide on how much they care to write for whatever reason.

Renfield's picture
Renfield from Hell is reading 20th Century Ghosts February 23, 2012 - 9:44pm

Shorter stories would get more reads, more votes.

Laramore Black's picture
Laramore Black from Joplin, Missouri is reading East of Eden, by John Steinbeck February 23, 2012 - 9:54pm

We could always do 1500 words or less, and make it a 5 day deadline.

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry February 23, 2012 - 9:55pm

Americantypo, you are on the list, sir!  And 2500 is the max word count.  No minimum.  You want to enter with an entire narrative that says, "Jesus wept."?  Cool.  Plagiarism, so that part's not cool, but the count?  Cool as hell.  Just don't go over 2500 words and you're cool as a cucumber.

Americantypo's picture
Americantypo from Philadelphia is reading The Song of Kali February 23, 2012 - 10:29pm

Fair enough, I'll try my best. And yeah, shorter reads get read more, but the point was, I have a really hard time writing under a large word count. Maybe this will help prompt some shorter stories, we'll see.

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 23, 2012 - 11:00pm

I would be fine with just doing final drafts - no roughs for the competition.  It could still get reviewed and you could edit later as you liked, but for the purpose of War, one draft.

 

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry February 23, 2012 - 11:01pm

I understand what you mean.  It can be a tough thing when every plot arc you come up with is for a novella.

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry February 23, 2012 - 11:09pm

I think that's best.  You create your story and it stands.

It's the only way I can think to get around two major issues with the contest:  bias and a cumbersome length.

Thanks to Richard Thomas and Fritz Wolfe (and then everybody else who helped in this discussion this afternoon) for some very critical input.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 23, 2012 - 11:12pm

How long will we have to submit the final draft? One week?

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 23, 2012 - 11:15pm

I'm thinking one week, yes.

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 23, 2012 - 11:15pm

Other thoughts?

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 23, 2012 - 11:18pm

A week works.

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 23, 2012 - 11:19pm

"A week works."

Uh, okay...

Chester Pane's picture
Chester Pane from Portland, Oregon is reading The Brief and Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot Diaz February 23, 2012 - 11:21pm

Great ideas. Yeah, cut to the chase on something like this. It is complex enough as it is. Curious to see how this blind thing goes. I have participated in a double blind before. I think there is actually a service for it, but I'm sure Kirk could come up with something if not what you guys have already established.

I love blind competitions. It is the only real way to see the writing.

Actually in Mark Vanderpool's Zen class, there is an anonymous exercise based on Steve Almond's 'Five Minutes of Shame' that utilizes anonymity. That actually already exists here in some form on the site. Though I am not sure what incentive they would have to employ it here. We'll see.

I love the class idea but I think we should also consider doing something fun in addition to that. Like we all make a 'zine' and the winner gets zines from everyone at the end. Just an idea.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 23, 2012 - 11:20pm

Uh, okay...

- Haha

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 23, 2012 - 11:22pm

I think we have worked out something do-able.  One week, no workshop, straight into a blind poll.

It'll be tough, but it's war - so...

Richard's picture
Richard from St. Louis is reading The Wasp Factory by Ian Banks February 23, 2012 - 11:23pm

one week. i'd also be down for lowering the maximum. i don't think you all realize how hard it is to write a new 2500 word story every week. that's tough. i don't think i've ever written five 2500 word stories in five weeks, unless i was taking an online intensive or something. but i guess the words will just fall where they may, yeah? happy to help.

there was some sort of similar shorts story battle royale out there, i'll see if i can find the link. i always avoided it because it seemed stupid and nothing but a popularity contest.

AH, found it:

http://www.brokenpencil.com/deathmatch

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 23, 2012 - 11:27pm

Well, it would technically be...TWO weeks (because we get a week off for the poll to post), but yeah, that is going to be a challenge. 

But as long as there is no minimum, I think it will be okay.  Good thing I am soooo smart, it'll be no problem for me!!!

What I mean is, good thing I'll be knocked out in round one!  It'll be no problem for me!  Ha!

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry February 23, 2012 - 11:38pm

You might get knocked out in round one, but you'll still have to suffer through the second elimination.  Probably.

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 23, 2012 - 11:42pm

I don't understand how that works. 

Help me...

Chester Pane's picture
Chester Pane from Portland, Oregon is reading The Brief and Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot Diaz February 23, 2012 - 11:51pm

Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 23, 2012 - 11:52pm

LOL!!!!  Chester, did that take you a long time, or did you copy and paste?  It's beautiful like pop art.

Chester Pane's picture
Chester Pane from Portland, Oregon is reading The Brief and Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot Diaz February 23, 2012 - 11:54pm

Uh, okay.

aliensoul77's picture
aliensoul77 from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall. February 23, 2012 - 11:57pm

Chester, are you having a nervous breakdown?

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry February 23, 2012 - 11:57pm

If we have fewer than 32 people the tournament will most likely be some form of double elimination.  Let's assume 16 contestants.

8 win the first round, 8 lose.

The losers are separated into their own bracket and go again.  When they lose twice they're done.  The folks in the winning group also will have losses, and those losers will be cycled into the loser's bracket.

 

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry February 23, 2012 - 11:59pm

Of course if there're 32 people it'll almost certainly have to be single elim or it'll just be crazy.

Chester Pane's picture
Chester Pane from Portland, Oregon is reading The Brief and Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot Diaz February 24, 2012 - 12:01am

All kidding aside,

Richard makes a great point about the word count. You might want to consider lowering it for the reasons Richard mentioned as well as the reader element. Reading all of the stories and voting on them is a huge undertaking by itself and we definitely want a lot of reading going on. Not just writing that goes unread. That happens all the time in the Workshop and everywhere else.

Lower word counts, in situations like these at least, get a lot more reads. Plus I want to read them all. That is the main reason the word count in Flash Me! is 500.

Participation.

ReneeAPickup's picture
ReneeAPickup from Joshua Tree, CA is reading A truckload of books. February 24, 2012 - 12:01am

Okay, so it's still open? Since Avery called me the fuck out on page one and Utah linked me directly here...I guess I'm in. I still haven'T GOATED the whole thread so I am still a little lost.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 24, 2012 - 12:01am

Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:

- That's my line, Chester Warthol.

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 24, 2012 - 12:02am

"and those losers will be cycled into the loser's bracket. "

Never mind, dear, I don't want to know.  My pretty female head wasn't meant to understand.  You just handle that. 

Thanks. 

Laramore Black's picture
Laramore Black from Joplin, Missouri is reading East of Eden, by John Steinbeck February 24, 2012 - 12:03am

1500 WORDS, or y'all a bunch of sissies. 

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 24, 2012 - 12:04am

DUDE - please can we leave it at a 2500 max - pretty please?  For me?  You can write less if you want.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 24, 2012 - 12:06am

- please can we leave it at a 2500 max - pretty please?  For me?  You can write less if you want.

- I agree... 2500 is a good max. 

Laramore Black's picture
Laramore Black from Joplin, Missouri is reading East of Eden, by John Steinbeck February 24, 2012 - 12:07am

2500 characters max.

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry February 24, 2012 - 12:07am

@Renee:  You really haven't missed anything.  Rules are posted in the very first post.  That'll tell you everything you need to know.  Well, it will tomorrow after I update it.  Start date is the same, as well as the tournament concept.  Timeline will be a bit shorter.

Chester Pane's picture
Chester Pane from Portland, Oregon is reading The Brief and Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot Diaz February 24, 2012 - 12:09am

I think 1500 is good. Brevity. That is my vote. It is not just about you Dolly girl.

That being said, I can't wait to hang out in the Loser's bracket. That's where all of the good drugs usually are.

Uh, okay?

 

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry February 24, 2012 - 12:09am

Look at that everybody.  Renee stepped into the badass circle and that puts us at magic number 16, which means we have enough people to run a tournament.  Now that just makes me smile.

avery of the dead's picture
avery of the dead from Kentucky is reading Cipher Sisters February 24, 2012 - 12:10am

"It is not just about you Dolly girl."

I can't believe you just said that.  I'm really confused right now.

uh...okay?

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 24, 2012 - 12:12am

Damn you all!

Umm, okay

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry February 24, 2012 - 12:12am

Ah, now I'm really torn.  1500, 2500.  Personally I like my stories to be about 4000 words, but that would be tough to pull off every week.  I'm thinking of a 2000 word compromise here.  Does that leave everybody sufficiently dissatisfied?

Laramore Black's picture
Laramore Black from Joplin, Missouri is reading East of Eden, by John Steinbeck February 24, 2012 - 12:12am

The thing about 1500 is that several of you are writer battle veterans going against people that haven't tried it. It's better for them as practice to write great in less words, and you guys have honed in on the 2500 range pretty well. This makes it a challenge, THIS MAKES WAR.

Tonight, we dine in Hell!

Uh, okay?

ReneeAPickup's picture
ReneeAPickup from Joshua Tree, CA is reading A truckload of books. February 24, 2012 - 12:13am

Ha, I just stumbled back into LitR in time to make Utah happy.

R.Moon's picture
R.Moon from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's Digest February 24, 2012 - 12:13am

I see we've gotten to the point of exhaustion. Now, we're stealing others catch phrases?

Utah's picture
Moderator
Utah from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry February 24, 2012 - 12:14am

I knew if I waited long enough you'd make me a happy man, Renee.