Matt Attack
from Richmond, Va. is reading As I Lay Dying, William FaulknerFebruary 23, 2012 - 3:47pm
So when we get all this nitty gritty ironed out, we are going to have just one set of rules posted somewhere correct?
Fritz
February 23, 2012 - 3:55pm
@ utah. I so have you
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryFebruary 23, 2012 - 3:58pm
@Matt: Yeah, once it's in stone (which shouldn't be long) you'll see it in an update in the first post on this thread.
@Fritz: well...okay...
Nick Wilczynski
from Greensboro, NC is reading A Dance with Dragons by George R.R. MartinFebruary 23, 2012 - 4:26pm
Americantypo
from Philadelphia is reading The Bone ClocksFebruary 23, 2012 - 4:54pm
I've been sort of looking at this from the outside, unsure if I was going to jump in or not. But... if the prize is a free class, I am sooooo in.
However if its just props, it might be better if I just focus on the hundred projects I already got going.
Americantypo
from Philadelphia is reading The Bone ClocksFebruary 23, 2012 - 4:56pm
Oh fuck the prize, I'm in it regardless. It'll be a good kick in the ass to keep writing new material.
Americantypo
from Philadelphia is reading The Bone ClocksFebruary 23, 2012 - 5:35pm
Also, regarding word count- would it be possible to have it be a minimum of 1,000 words and a max of 3,000? I don't think I'd be able to participate if it was as little as a thousand words as I often have trouble writing stories that short, and I know other people would find it stressful to have to write as much as 2,500 (the original word count posted earlier). Maybe 1000-3000 would make for something a little more flexible for everyone and people can decide on how much they care to write for whatever reason.
Renfield
from Hell is reading 20th Century GhostsFebruary 23, 2012 - 6:44pm
Shorter stories would get more reads, more votes.
Laramore Black
from Joplin, Missouri is reading Mario Kart 8February 23, 2012 - 6:54pm
We could always do 1500 words or less, and make it a 5 day deadline.
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryFebruary 23, 2012 - 6:55pm
Americantypo, you are on the list, sir! And 2500 is the max word count. No minimum. You want to enter with an entire narrative that says, "Jesus wept."? Cool. Plagiarism, so that part's not cool, but the count? Cool as hell. Just don't go over 2500 words and you're cool as a cucumber.
Americantypo
from Philadelphia is reading The Bone ClocksFebruary 23, 2012 - 7:29pm
Fair enough, I'll try my best. And yeah, shorter reads get read more, but the point was, I have a really hard time writing under a large word count. Maybe this will help prompt some shorter stories, we'll see.
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersFebruary 23, 2012 - 8:00pm
I would be fine with just doing final drafts - no roughs for the competition. It could still get reviewed and you could edit later as you liked, but for the purpose of War, one draft.
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryFebruary 23, 2012 - 8:01pm
I understand what you mean. It can be a tough thing when every plot arc you come up with is for a novella.
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryFebruary 23, 2012 - 8:09pm
I think that's best. You create your story and it stands.
It's the only way I can think to get around two major issues with the contest: bias and a cumbersome length.
Thanks to Richard Thomas and Fritz Wolfe (and then everybody else who helped in this discussion this afternoon) for some very critical input.
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestFebruary 23, 2012 - 8:12pm
How long will we have to submit the final draft? One week?
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersFebruary 23, 2012 - 8:15pm
I'm thinking one week, yes.
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersFebruary 23, 2012 - 8:15pm
Other thoughts?
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestFebruary 23, 2012 - 8:18pm
A week works.
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersFebruary 23, 2012 - 8:19pm
"A week works."
Uh, okay...
Chester Pane
from Portland, Oregon is reading The Brief and Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot DiazFebruary 23, 2012 - 8:21pm
Great ideas. Yeah, cut to the chase on something like this. It is complex enough as it is. Curious to see how this blind thing goes. I have participated in a double blind before. I think there is actually a service for it, but I'm sure Kirk could come up with something if not what you guys have already established.
I love blind competitions. It is the only real way to see the writing.
Actually in Mark Vanderpool's Zen class, there is an anonymous exercise based on Steve Almond's 'Five Minutes of Shame' that utilizes anonymity. That actually already exists here in some form on the site. Though I am not sure what incentive they would have to employ it here. We'll see.
I love the class idea but I think we should also consider doing something fun in addition to that. Like we all make a 'zine' and the winner gets zines from everyone at the end. Just an idea.
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestFebruary 23, 2012 - 8:20pm
Uh, okay...
- Haha
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersFebruary 23, 2012 - 8:22pm
I think we have worked out something do-able. One week, no workshop, straight into a blind poll.
It'll be tough, but it's war - so...
Richard
from St. Louis is reading various anthologiesFebruary 23, 2012 - 8:23pm
one week. i'd also be down for lowering the maximum. i don't think you all realize how hard it is to write a new 2500 word story every week. that's tough. i don't think i've ever written five 2500 word stories in five weeks, unless i was taking an online intensive or something. but i guess the words will just fall where they may, yeah? happy to help.
there was some sort of similar shorts story battle royale out there, i'll see if i can find the link. i always avoided it because it seemed stupid and nothing but a popularity contest.
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersFebruary 23, 2012 - 8:52pm
LOL!!!! Chester, did that take you a long time, or did you copy and paste? It's beautiful like pop art.
Chester Pane
from Portland, Oregon is reading The Brief and Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot DiazFebruary 23, 2012 - 8:54pm
Uh, okay.
aliensoul77
from a cold distant star is reading the writing on the wall.February 23, 2012 - 8:57pm
Chester, are you having a nervous breakdown?
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryFebruary 23, 2012 - 8:57pm
If we have fewer than 32 people the tournament will most likely be some form of double elimination. Let's assume 16 contestants.
8 win the first round, 8 lose.
The losers are separated into their own bracket and go again. When they lose twice they're done. The folks in the winning group also will have losses, and those losers will be cycled into the loser's bracket.
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryFebruary 23, 2012 - 8:59pm
Of course if there're 32 people it'll almost certainly have to be single elim or it'll just be crazy.
Chester Pane
from Portland, Oregon is reading The Brief and Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot DiazFebruary 23, 2012 - 9:01pm
All kidding aside,
Richard makes a great point about the word count. You might want to consider lowering it for the reasons Richard mentioned as well as the reader element. Reading all of the stories and voting on them is a huge undertaking by itself and we definitely want a lot of reading going on. Not just writing that goes unread. That happens all the time in the Workshop and everywhere else.
Lower word counts, in situations like these at least, get a lot more reads. Plus I want to read them all. That is the main reason the word count in Flash Me! is 500.
Participation.
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigFebruary 23, 2012 - 9:01pm
Okay, so it's still open? Since Avery called me the fuck out on page one and Utah linked me directly here...I guess I'm in. I still haven'T GOATED the whole thread so I am still a little lost.
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestFebruary 23, 2012 - 9:01pm
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersFebruary 23, 2012 - 9:02pm
"and those losers will be cycled into the loser's bracket. "
Never mind, dear, I don't want to know. My pretty female head wasn't meant to understand. You just handle that.
Thanks.
Laramore Black
from Joplin, Missouri is reading Mario Kart 8February 23, 2012 - 9:03pm
1500 WORDS, or y'all a bunch of sissies.
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersFebruary 23, 2012 - 9:04pm
DUDE - please can we leave it at a 2500 max - pretty please? For me? You can write less if you want.
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestFebruary 23, 2012 - 9:06pm
- please can we leave it at a 2500 max - pretty please? For me? You can write less if you want.
- I agree... 2500 is a good max.
Laramore Black
from Joplin, Missouri is reading Mario Kart 8February 23, 2012 - 9:07pm
2500 characters max.
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryFebruary 23, 2012 - 9:07pm
@Renee: You really haven't missed anything. Rules are posted in the very first post. That'll tell you everything you need to know. Well, it will tomorrow after I update it. Start date is the same, as well as the tournament concept. Timeline will be a bit shorter.
Chester Pane
from Portland, Oregon is reading The Brief and Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot DiazFebruary 23, 2012 - 9:09pm
I think 1500 is good. Brevity. That is my vote. It is not just about you Dolly girl.
That being said, I can't wait to hang out in the Loser's bracket. That's where all of the good drugs usually are.
Uh, okay?
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryFebruary 23, 2012 - 9:09pm
Look at that everybody. Renee stepped into the badass circle and that puts us at magic number 16, which means we have enough people to run a tournament. Now that just makes me smile.
avery of the dead
from Kentucky is reading Cipher SistersFebruary 23, 2012 - 9:10pm
"It is not just about you Dolly girl."
I can't believe you just said that. I'm really confused right now.
uh...okay?
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestFebruary 23, 2012 - 9:12pm
Damn you all!
Umm, okay
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryFebruary 23, 2012 - 9:12pm
Ah, now I'm really torn. 1500, 2500. Personally I like my stories to be about 4000 words, but that would be tough to pull off every week. I'm thinking of a 2000 word compromise here. Does that leave everybody sufficiently dissatisfied?
Laramore Black
from Joplin, Missouri is reading Mario Kart 8February 23, 2012 - 9:12pm
The thing about 1500 is that several of you are writer battle veterans going against people that haven't tried it. It's better for them as practice to write great in less words, and you guys have honed in on the 2500 range pretty well. This makes it a challenge, THIS MAKES WAR.
Tonight, we dine in Hell!
Uh, okay?
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigFebruary 23, 2012 - 9:13pm
Ha, I just stumbled back into LitR in time to make Utah happy.
R.Moon
from The City of Champions is reading The Last Thing He Wanted by Joan Didion; Story Structure Architect by Victoria Lynn Schimdt PH.D; Creating Characters by the editors of Writer's DigestFebruary 23, 2012 - 9:13pm
I see we've gotten to the point of exhaustion. Now, we're stealing others catch phrases?
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryFebruary 23, 2012 - 9:14pm
I knew if I waited long enough you'd make me a happy man, Renee.
So when we get all this nitty gritty ironed out, we are going to have just one set of rules posted somewhere correct?
@ utah. I so have you
@Matt: Yeah, once it's in stone (which shouldn't be long) you'll see it in an update in the first post on this thread.
@Fritz: well...okay...
I've been sort of looking at this from the outside, unsure if I was going to jump in or not. But... if the prize is a free class, I am sooooo in.
However if its just props, it might be better if I just focus on the hundred projects I already got going.
Oh fuck the prize, I'm in it regardless. It'll be a good kick in the ass to keep writing new material.
Also, regarding word count- would it be possible to have it be a minimum of 1,000 words and a max of 3,000? I don't think I'd be able to participate if it was as little as a thousand words as I often have trouble writing stories that short, and I know other people would find it stressful to have to write as much as 2,500 (the original word count posted earlier). Maybe 1000-3000 would make for something a little more flexible for everyone and people can decide on how much they care to write for whatever reason.
Shorter stories would get more reads, more votes.
We could always do 1500 words or less, and make it a 5 day deadline.
Americantypo, you are on the list, sir! And 2500 is the max word count. No minimum. You want to enter with an entire narrative that says, "Jesus wept."? Cool. Plagiarism, so that part's not cool, but the count? Cool as hell. Just don't go over 2500 words and you're cool as a cucumber.
Fair enough, I'll try my best. And yeah, shorter reads get read more, but the point was, I have a really hard time writing under a large word count. Maybe this will help prompt some shorter stories, we'll see.
I would be fine with just doing final drafts - no roughs for the competition. It could still get reviewed and you could edit later as you liked, but for the purpose of War, one draft.
I understand what you mean. It can be a tough thing when every plot arc you come up with is for a novella.
I think that's best. You create your story and it stands.
It's the only way I can think to get around two major issues with the contest: bias and a cumbersome length.
Thanks to Richard Thomas and Fritz Wolfe (and then everybody else who helped in this discussion this afternoon) for some very critical input.
How long will we have to submit the final draft? One week?
I'm thinking one week, yes.
Other thoughts?
A week works.
"A week works."
Uh, okay...
Great ideas. Yeah, cut to the chase on something like this. It is complex enough as it is. Curious to see how this blind thing goes. I have participated in a double blind before. I think there is actually a service for it, but I'm sure Kirk could come up with something if not what you guys have already established.
I love blind competitions. It is the only real way to see the writing.
Actually in Mark Vanderpool's Zen class, there is an anonymous exercise based on Steve Almond's 'Five Minutes of Shame' that utilizes anonymity. That actually already exists here in some form on the site. Though I am not sure what incentive they would have to employ it here. We'll see.
I love the class idea but I think we should also consider doing something fun in addition to that. Like we all make a 'zine' and the winner gets zines from everyone at the end. Just an idea.
I think we have worked out something do-able. One week, no workshop, straight into a blind poll.
It'll be tough, but it's war - so...
one week. i'd also be down for lowering the maximum. i don't think you all realize how hard it is to write a new 2500 word story every week. that's tough. i don't think i've ever written five 2500 word stories in five weeks, unless i was taking an online intensive or something. but i guess the words will just fall where they may, yeah? happy to help.
there was some sort of similar shorts story battle royale out there, i'll see if i can find the link. i always avoided it because it seemed stupid and nothing but a popularity contest.
AH, found it:
http://www.brokenpencil.com/deathmatch
Well, it would technically be...TWO weeks (because we get a week off for the poll to post), but yeah, that is going to be a challenge.
But as long as there is no minimum, I think it will be okay. Good thing I am soooo smart, it'll be no problem for me!!!
What I mean is, good thing I'll be knocked out in round one! It'll be no problem for me! Ha!
You might get knocked out in round one, but you'll still have to suffer through the second elimination. Probably.
I don't understand how that works.
Help me...
Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay: Uh, Okay:
LOL!!!! Chester, did that take you a long time, or did you copy and paste? It's beautiful like pop art.
Uh, okay.
Chester, are you having a nervous breakdown?
If we have fewer than 32 people the tournament will most likely be some form of double elimination. Let's assume 16 contestants.
8 win the first round, 8 lose.
The losers are separated into their own bracket and go again. When they lose twice they're done. The folks in the winning group also will have losses, and those losers will be cycled into the loser's bracket.
Of course if there're 32 people it'll almost certainly have to be single elim or it'll just be crazy.
All kidding aside,
Richard makes a great point about the word count. You might want to consider lowering it for the reasons Richard mentioned as well as the reader element. Reading all of the stories and voting on them is a huge undertaking by itself and we definitely want a lot of reading going on. Not just writing that goes unread. That happens all the time in the Workshop and everywhere else.
Lower word counts, in situations like these at least, get a lot more reads. Plus I want to read them all. That is the main reason the word count in Flash Me! is 500.
Participation.
Okay, so it's still open? Since Avery called me the fuck out on page one and Utah linked me directly here...I guess I'm in. I still haven'T GOATED the whole thread so I am still a little lost.
"and those losers will be cycled into the loser's bracket. "
Never mind, dear, I don't want to know. My pretty female head wasn't meant to understand. You just handle that.
Thanks.
1500 WORDS, or y'all a bunch of sissies.
DUDE - please can we leave it at a 2500 max - pretty please? For me? You can write less if you want.
2500 characters max.
@Renee: You really haven't missed anything. Rules are posted in the very first post. That'll tell you everything you need to know. Well, it will tomorrow after I update it. Start date is the same, as well as the tournament concept. Timeline will be a bit shorter.
I think 1500 is good. Brevity. That is my vote. It is not just about you Dolly girl.
That being said, I can't wait to hang out in the Loser's bracket. That's where all of the good drugs usually are.
Uh, okay?
Look at that everybody. Renee stepped into the badass circle and that puts us at magic number 16, which means we have enough people to run a tournament. Now that just makes me smile.
"It is not just about you Dolly girl."
I can't believe you just said that. I'm really confused right now.
uh...okay?
Damn you all!
Umm, okay
Ah, now I'm really torn. 1500, 2500. Personally I like my stories to be about 4000 words, but that would be tough to pull off every week. I'm thinking of a 2000 word compromise here. Does that leave everybody sufficiently dissatisfied?
The thing about 1500 is that several of you are writer battle veterans going against people that haven't tried it. It's better for them as practice to write great in less words, and you guys have honed in on the 2500 range pretty well. This makes it a challenge, THIS MAKES WAR.
Tonight, we dine in Hell!
Uh, okay?
Ha, I just stumbled back into LitR in time to make Utah happy.
I see we've gotten to the point of exhaustion. Now, we're stealing others catch phrases?
I knew if I waited long enough you'd make me a happy man, Renee.