My normal writing group hears this enough from me as it is, so I figured I might get a larger audience to hear me bitch about my current writing project. Feel free to gripe and complain about your own projects here as well, you never know who might have some choice advice, or what said choice advice might be.
I've been working on this project for three years now. Skipping all the backstory, I've got a very rough first draft of the entire novel and now I'm on the second draft. Here's the skinny:
Junkie heroin runner Willy Fisher is convinced vampires are real. When he finds out the secret to becoming a vampire, he steals half a mill from his boss Ray Ray and starts to create his vampire army. Murphy's Law drop kicks Willy into a nightmare and he discovers being a vampire is not at all what he thought it would be. Now a Blood Junkie, Willy's addiction to blood destroys whatever human is left in him; the more blood he consumes, the more of a monster he becomes, and it is irreversible. Beck is sent out by Ray Ray to kill Willy and get his money back. Harboring a dark secret of his own, Beck finds that Willy may ultimately hold the key to fullfill his deepest and darkest desire. With the help of his coworker Leon, one of the four only other vampires in the world, Beck sets out to find Willy. Disaster ensues.
I like this idea. It's been the idea the whole time. It works, or at least I know I can make it work, especially since I've already written a first draft of the damn thing. Problem is that other ideas keep popping up, breaking my stride. Not other ideas for other unrelated stories, those happen all the time. No, what I'm talking about is ideas to change up what I've already written. Like, make it post-apocalyptic, or write it in first person. Things like that. I've over fucking analyzed every possibility until I'm blurry eyed and burnt, but the thoughts just keep on jacking my muse.
My plans are to make this the first book in a series, a series where it does end up post apocalyptic. (Yeah, I know, I know...that's been done to death. I agree, but I've got some tricks up my sleeve I'm not going to share here, so hopefully my idea will be...dare I say it, GASP, different.)
So I guess my gripe, or complaint, can be made into the form of a question. Obviously, I'm not the only writer here that gets pounded with ideas while working on a project. Starting over is always an option. I believe our own Craig Clevenger once said he is a big fan of starting over. But I feel like I've started over way too many times. When do I call it quits?
Like I said, I'm not blocked, just fucked up.
Anyone else got any bitching and griping about their current project?
I have been writing a short story on and off for two weeks. I like my two main characters, but I'm stuck in a rut. I can't get past writing a hundred words or so a day. I want to keep going with it because I like the idea, but it's hard. Gah, why must writing so frustrating at times?! Literature is a harsh mistress.
My current writing project has been a challenge to say the least. Part of me thought (foolishly I might add) that since I'd crammed out the first draft that it would be easier. After scrapping 90% of the first draft, I'm 20 chapters into the second and already I'm backtracking to fix things. Every chapter I write or revise brings to mind some little nuance that I need touch on in a previous chapter. Worse still, I feel like I'm skimming on a few characters to move the plot along because I want to be 'done' with this draft.
I'm itching to hit one of my other projects, but I'm sticking with this one because I want to finish it. The first draft was so laughably terrible that I've taken it as a personal challenge to fix it this year, knowing full well that I'm going to have to revise it at least 2-3 more times before it's something I would consider even remotely 'readable' I've been tempted to drop a few chapters here, just for the feedback, but I don't see too many people willing to tackle 20-25k projects.
Shit, I need to do more reviews.
Forgive my brevity. I have found that if I am iffy on a story, it is because there is something missing. Character, drive, prose. All sorts of stuff. I would try to find something in there that makes you feel iffy.
Just from your description:
Junkie heroin runner Willy Fisher is convinced vampires are real. When he finds out the secret to becoming a vampire, he steals half a mill from his boss Ray Ray and starts to create his vampire army"
Why is this so important to him? Why does he want to become one? I would just start thinking about motivation and the "what ifs" as you work on your second draft.
Just my two cents.
I've found that if I revise as I go it helps avoid this. I haven't written chapter 7 yet, but I've revised chapter 8 literally 10 or 20 times. I'm really sure that I like chapter 8 as it is, so chapter 7 just kind of flows out. Don't know if that helps or not...
Matt, of course you're right. After all the head-scratching and worrying and burning brain cells, there's that one little (MAJOR) thing I've overlooked: Why does Willy want to be a vampire?
I'm chapped I didn't think about this first, but also elated that I know what his motivation is, it's been staring me in the face the whole time, which is usually the case when I'm unsure about a character. This will be kinda like starting over, more of just adding a prologue, which I don't like, but this time, it's so necessary. And it goes along with my original first draft almost perfectly. It's like I knew this, and would have eventually thought about it later, or an agent or editor would have suggested it. Hot damn!
Thank you.
Glad to help.
I'm really sure that I like chapter 8 as it is, so chapter 7 just kind of flows out.
I almost always write chapter 7 before chapter 8. Call me old-fashioned. Or sober.
"Glad to help." And with that our hero mounts his tall, white horse, and rides on to the next valley, the next town, the next poor soul in need of his six-gun defense or his literary advice. Tune in next week for the latest adventures of Mattack!
And with that our hero mounts his tall, white horse, and rides on to the next valley, the next town, the next poor soul in need of his six-gun defense or his literary advice. Tune in next week for the latest adventures of Mattack!"
I need my own theme music. Also, I think I may make that my description. That is the most epic thing ever. Even more epic than when Danny said:
"Matt smells like old spice and broken dreams."
"And with that our hero mounts his tall, white horse, and rides on to the next valley, the next town, the next poor soul in need of his six-gun defense or his literary advice. Tune in next week for the latest adventures of Mattack!"
He has a pet wolf, right?
You shut your face woman!
I also added it to my description. It belongs to the ages now.
Glad to help.
"You shut your face woman!"
You say this a lot. The thing is, it's never worked. The only thing to be drawn is that you are a subordinate here who desperately wants to be dominate, but never will. You know what they call people who bark orders that no one pays attention to? Answer: Matt Attack.
Copycat
You say this a lot. The thing is, it's never worked. The only thing to be drawn is that you are a subordinate here who desperately want to be dominate, but never will. You know what they call people who bark orders that no one pays attention to? Answer: Matt Attack."
I don't say that exact phrase all the time. I have told you to make me lunch twice. I'd also like to point out, I only say it to you. BAM!
" I'd also like to point out, I only say it to you."
And...has it ever worked?
I heard, from an independent source not to be named, that you actually did make him lunch once.
Your sources are unreliable.
And...has it ever worked?"
No, but let's be honest. No one has ever given you an order and had it been followed. Still won't stop me though. Perhaps that should be my catch phrase on my white horse and wolf companion.
I also heard her feet stink. Not naming names.
It's a problem.
"No one has ever given you an order and had it been followed."
That's it. It isn't just because you're a weak and impotent man. Whatever you need to tell youself.
There is nothing wrong with my feet! Damn it!
My advise to anybody who is stuck in a story they can't remove themselves from is an easy one. Just walk away. Throw that beast in the drawer, lock it up and hide the key for a bit. Maybe it's a couple of days, maybe it's a week, maybe it's a month but it's often a good idea to let the idea breathe in your mind a bit. As soon as you find yourself not thinking about it, new avenues will crop up without you realizing it.
If the issue is too many ideas are trying to worm their way in, I always ask myself, "Why do I want to write this story?" Take some time and try to figure out what about this tale attracts you so much that you want to spend hours writing it. It's not an easy question and it takes some time to get to the root of it. Once you've found that driving factor, find everything in your book that supports that driving factor or came from that desire. Everything else is expendable. Again, this works for me and may not for you, but if you focus on the root of why you like it, it'll highlight everything else in it that's not important.
Then again, I've never had one story published on a website, never mind in print, so I may just be blowing hot gas. All things with a grain of salt!
weak and impotent man"
Wow. LOL, well then riddle me this: why would you literally stalk every post I make or every post about me, and then feel the need to remind me of my perceived inferiority?
Hmmm
I feel like steve buscemi walking in off the asteroid: 'ok. What'd i miss?'
I'm pretty sure I stalked Utah here.
One solution:
Start with a plot outline and character sketches and have all these issues worked out before starting to write the prose.
It appears a lot of people stalked me here.
I'm currently back-burnering a larger project that is intended to be a trilogy, I got about 1/2 through the first book, then stopped to work on other stuff (also, as a slower writer, I was getting bored facing down this monolith). However, I outlined exhaustively, so any time I would have inspiration (of course, most of the time, these turned out to be garbage on further relfection), I would 'branch' my outline. If anyone is familiar with concurrent versioning systems from the software world, I basically follow a simplified git pattern, with
1 master branch
n+1 branches
merging an 'idea branch' into the master outline branch means basically placing bullet points inline on the master (google docs helps out here, since you can also view document history), and then just keep on trucking.
Does that make sense? It's saved me yea amount of grief - also, having this system in place allows me to more easily move in and out of a long project without as much ramp-up time.
But the real question that hasn't been answered is: "Why does Willy want to become a Vampire?"
Lisa, you totally sounded English when you said that line in my head. I'm not sure why that's so, but I blame WickedVoodoo.
@Barr and Clutch - If that works for you great, but it sounds like taking the creative part of my soul and setting it on fire. I could never work with something that organized, and I might not be the only one.
My first drafts look like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWDkh5CQFug&feature=plcp
That's cool. I understand that 'cos that's how i used to write as well, but I kept going in circles until I had at least a sketchy road map.
I noticed I tried stuff like sadism outlining, and I spent 2 hours rearranging my desk. I just wrote and had a few chapters.
I dig what you're saying. Writing ideas willy nilly is important. You need to get some material on paper so later you have something to cut and sew back together into a solid and comprehensive story.
But in response to Bob's dilemma, where he got so far down the road then thought about starting over because he hadn't made up his mind yet what he wanted his story to be about or how he wanted to tell it... well, a scratch pad with some direction written down might have helped.
Such as: Character "A" does such and such, and that causes Character "B" to [whatever it is], then write to that simple story plan. The logical progression of the story is already figured out.
Logic doesn't make for great stories.
My novella that isn't finished has had most of the chapters published in different places. I'm debating on finishing it because my outline spiraled into b-list action movie chaos and I'm suffering from writers block above that on the project. I'm thinking of scrapping it and being thankful for it doing it's job.
I'm working on a prologue that will explain why Willy wants to be a vampire. It will serve multiple purposes, and as much as I don't like prologues, it is necessary. I probably won't even label it a prologue. I tend to name my chapters, and for this novel there are three parts, each named from vampire movies that broke the mold of the traditional format: Underworld, The Hunger, and Near Dark. Each chapter will be named after a different vampire film, avoiding the word vampire in most instances and definitely avoiding the name Dracula.
The prologue title will be a vampire film with a location and a year. Chapter One will be named, also with a location and a year, though that will be the last time I indicate the time frame.
As for taking some time away from this novel, that is out of the question. I spent a year away from it, working on other things, and now it's time to go to work. Once I finish this second, stronger, draft, I will probably take some time away, but this is my focus now. I have procastrinated too long on this project, so unless it starts to drive me insane, she's my bitch.
Bob, just my opinion, take it for what's it's worth, but I wouldn't make it a prologue. I would integrate it into the narrative and the dialogue. It should flesh things out, keep things moving, make the folks seem deeper.
EDIT: There is an essay around somewhere about revealing a characterin pieces. I'll have to look for it and post it.
@ Matt
It's a past protagonist prologue (techincally a past victim prologue.) It's a scene, though I'm still deciding if I should name the characters in the prologue or not, especially since the reader will know exactly who was in the prologue by the third chapter.
The scene is an event that takes place 10 years before the main story. It establishes Willy as being a little weird, already obsessed with the vampire lore and on the fast road to junkiedom. His belief in vampires is confirmed when he actually survives a vampire attack. Instead of being repulsed and scared, he is enlightened and curious. He knows the truth now, and it compells him to seek out the means to make his dreams come true. He's a meek and lonely young man, and desires strength and power to combat his lowly feelings.
It seems it will be more of an actual chapter, so I'm following the way Lindqvist wrote Let The Right One In with the first chapter/prologue somewhat integrated into the story, yet a story within itself.
I love it when I'm thinking about another story and have a breakthrough with my current project.
Willy is an addict, looking for the ultimate high. Heroin works for him, but there has to be more. He seeks something that will make him feel alive again. He witnesses a vampire feeding, sees how the blood affects her, enpowers her. He longs for that kind of high. Like Uncle Frank from The Hellbound Heart, he seeks out the means to achieve this high. With the means in the palm of his hand, he knows he has the strength to make the sacrifice. Everything he has ever known will change overnight.
His motivation to become a vampire is directly tied to his search for the ultimate high. When he cannot find a vampire to help him achieve his goal, he learns of a different way, requiring a much bigger sacrifice. The ultimate sacrifice for the ultimate high. Fate forces his hand. He prays it works.
Howdy. Long time no see everybody.
Bob, I would recommend you shelve the thing for now. Keep outlining until things just click. For me, I outline and outline until things don't just work, but they work in a way I'll never consider changing (in a major way). Basically, when the story exists a certain, singular way in your mind rather than as a thousand possibilities you've nailed your plot down.
Also, the vampirism/addiction parallel has been done, so be careful that you're not treading over cliches. Here are some examples:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112288/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0762073/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0490527/
I also recommend you try to keep things as simple as possible. If you try and throw in everything including the kitchen sink then your plot will become convoluted. I've always believed that the best stories are simple ones that unfold in complex ways. They seem complicated until the reader/audience is done, and then they see the simplicity in hindsight.
I would also recommend you examine how your protagonist (antihero?) became a herion addict. Maybe through dialogue, flashbacks, or some other device. Has his life always been driven by the urge to feel the rush of a high (rollercoasters as a kid, for example) or was it something that snuck up on him (something he tried and couldn't stop)? The big difference between the movies I listed and your idea is that your character sounds like he's consciously seeking this buzz rather than being physically compelled despite mental/moral reservations. That's a strange, albeit interesting, character. It would make sense to me if he was into extreme sports or some other rush-inducing activity.
I would also recommend you examine how your protagonist (antihero?) became a herion addict. Maybe through dialogue, flashbacks, or some other device. Has his life always been driven by the urge to feel the rush of a high (rollercoasters as a kid, for example) or was it something that snuck up on him (something he tried and couldn't stop)? The big difference between the movies I listed and your idea is that your character sounds like he's consciously seeking this buzz rather than being physically compelled despite mental/moral reservations. That's a strange, albeit interesting, character. It would make sense to me if he was into extreme sports or some other rush-inducing activity.
To expand on this, I'd think about the choice of drug depending on where you take the character. If he's chasing that extreme high and fast paced action, I'd think he'd be more of a coke or meth addict. If he's trying to escape from something or dealing with a depressing event/history, then I'd go with the heroin. I've found drug choices are usually personality based. An addict is an addict. Just something that came to mind as I was reading comments.
I feel like if I put it on the shelf again I've lost a battle. Three years with this book and I'm no closer to finishing the second draft than last year. Fuck it, I give, throwing in the towel. Gonna work on some short stories and develope another project. Fortunately, I have no shortage of ideas that can easily be stories.
I guess I need to come to terms with the fact that I'm too ambitious for my own good right now. Too many ideas have turned this simple story into a convoluted mess of poo poo. The story can only benefit by stepping away. This should be my mantra. I'm not going to let this get me down. It will not break me. I haven't lost anything at all. I can only gain. Thanks for the support guys.
It always hurts to shelve a project, even if it's temporary. The way I look at it, as long as I'm working on something then things are going well. So your idea to work on some short stories in the meantime might be just what you need.
After you've spent some time away from the project you'll probably return to it with a fresh perspective. Maybe do something like make a chart where you list ideas you'll definitely use, ideas you possibly could use, and then changes to current ideas. Find a way to organize your ideas so you can trim them down and make them fit together nice. Experiment with outline techniques so your ideas are always being sorted through your mind in different ways.
Hope this helps. I've been writing a novel for the past three years, too. I tend to write a chapter, shelve the project, write a short story or screenplay, and then return to it and write another chapter. I don't even think the project is publishable, I just keep working on it b/c I feel compelled to finish it.
Bob, I am sorry to see the project go. Maybe it was too ambitious. The best stories are normally the simplest in scope, but tend to make them big.
Shelved to me means backburner. I'm just not going to work on it right now. I'm going to write something simple. I think it's simple. Pray it's simple.
I'm either going to write my Mac and Dinky story, or work on Vile Veneer, which is about an infamous Hollywood artist/set-designer and some mysterious deaths that occured during his heyday. I'm pretty excited about that one, because it will be a complete and total homage to horror fiction and films. Expect lots of cameos.
