bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.November 10, 2012 - 1:35pm
Lidia, what was on your reading list (fiction/nonfiction - excluding research material) while you were writing this book? Did you feel any change to your writing while reading those books (voice changes, use of different techniques, etc.)?
Liana
from Romania and Texas is reading Naked LunchNovember 10, 2012 - 1:45pm
The discussion of the book is so interesting that I'm going to get it and read it even if I missed the chance to participate. Have I? (due to time/energy issues, I haven't been part of the reading group after the first 2 books). But since I took a couple of classes in psychoanalyis way back when, I am totally intrigued now.
Lidia Yuknavitch
from Portlandia is reading Zipper Mouth by Laurie WeeksNovember 10, 2012 - 5:14pm
@bryanhowie:
i don't let any books get in me when i'm writing a novel (with the exception of the source material of course)...every novel is literally it's own world. i mean i truly "leave" and go into the novel when i'm writing. sometimes it's hard to come back.
but there are books i've read in my past that absolutely influenced me in the writing of Dora--Cuckoo's nest, Catcher in the Rye, Trainspotting, A Clockwork Orange, Valencia, and the film Sweetie....
love lidia
bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.November 10, 2012 - 7:41pm
This discussion goes all month, so you have time and the opportunity to write questions as you go.
bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.November 10, 2012 - 7:42pm
The last novel length writing I did (it sucked, but it was a nice try), I had a playlist that I kept repeating (mostly Tom Waits). Next time, I plan on having a different group of songs (3-5) per chapter as an experiment. Is there a music list you put together for the novel?
drea
from Rural Alberta, Canada is reading between the linesNovember 10, 2012 - 8:49pm
^ oooh, good question. (One of my to-do projects is to compile a play list from a book of essays I just finished.)
Lidia Yuknavitch
from Portlandia is reading Zipper Mouth by Laurie WeeksNovember 12, 2012 - 12:06pm
@bryanhowie:
i usually "genius" my whole stash depending on my mood. but it often includes pixies, velvet underground, miles davis, john coltrane, patti smith, leonard cohen, the cure, X, rage against the machine, morrisy, nirvana, dresden dolls, throwing muses, dead can dance, cocteau twins, bach, elliott smith (which always makes me bawl), and joan jett, and billie holiday among many many many many many many others...
voodoo_em
from England is reading All the books by Ira LevinNovember 13, 2012 - 7:43am
Lidia,
Are either of the next to novels you mentioned "The small backs of children" ?
bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.November 13, 2012 - 8:06am
Lidia, what are the last 3 books you've read that you'd recommend and why? Can you relate your choices to Dora?
Jay.SJ
from London is reading Warmed and BoundNovember 13, 2012 - 10:01am
Lidia, I was wondering about your previous work. Before this you have published a memoir and collections. Was it intimidating publishing a novel after so much previous non novel work, or was it fine?
Also, any plans to put that first collection back into print?
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigNovember 13, 2012 - 11:22am
Jay-- I was able to buy Real To Reel frm Barnes & Noble online around April this year.
Jay.SJ
from London is reading Warmed and BoundNovember 13, 2012 - 11:24am
Oh, I didn't mean that one, I think it's called Her Other Mouths.
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigNovember 13, 2012 - 11:28am
Oh, well color me out of the loop.
bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.November 14, 2012 - 7:33am
Lidia, are there any plans for an audiobook of Chronology of Water? It was the best memoir I've ever read, but I really want to listen to that book, too.
Lidia Yuknavitch
from Portlandia is reading Zipper Mouth by Laurie WeeksNovember 14, 2012 - 12:33pm
@voodoo:
um, my next novel is a little up in the air...i have more than one in the hopper, and the sharks are doing their shark thingee right now...so i don't know what my next birth into the world will be. i've decided to not care. i had a kind of existential crisis recently where i realized that chasing shiny things is not for me....i just want to write. if it doesn't turn shiny, well oh well, you know?
love lidia
Lidia Yuknavitch
from Portlandia is reading Zipper Mouth by Laurie WeeksNovember 14, 2012 - 12:35pm
@bryanhowie:
i read junot diaz's new book, i read joy harjo's new book, and i read the galley of monica drake's new book. i'm hoping you have to go look them up now and you'll impulse shop. before that i read IQ84 and fucking LOVED it, and val mcdermid's latest thriller. go lesbian thriller lady.
none of 'em have jack shit to do with Dora. ha. i read all the time. and i'm a slutty reader, as mentioned earlier....i'll read most things.
love lidia
Lidia Yuknavitch
from Portlandia is reading Zipper Mouth by Laurie WeeksNovember 14, 2012 - 12:37pm
@JSJ:
nah, it was not hard. the order a writer WRITES stuff in is not always the order PUBLICATION happens...you know what i mean? i will say this: i still believe fiction is the revolutionary form for capturing experience and challenging readers. it interests me how much people love creative nonfiction. i see little to no distinction, but every time i talk about it, i get in trouble...ha.
love lidia
Lidia Yuknavitch
from Portlandia is reading Zipper Mouth by Laurie WeeksNovember 14, 2012 - 12:39pm
hey the thing about out of print books? no one wants to republish them unless you are BIG TIME. then they get bought up by BIG TIME houses and re-released. see cheryl strayed's Torch.
OR, Dzanc is doing re-releases of indie books, because they are gods.
i'd love to revamp/redo my first collection of short stories. there. sending THAT intention out into the world...ha. i wrote them when i was 25, and now i'm 50, so it's REALLY FASCINATING the conversations i have in my head between those two women.
love lidia
Lidia Yuknavitch
from Portlandia is reading Zipper Mouth by Laurie WeeksNovember 14, 2012 - 12:40pm
@bryanhowie:
i think if i was with a bigger house i'd already have an audio book deal for COW....but so far, i don't. there's some filmic interest in COW and Dora, but i believe in that kind of like the tooth fairy, you know? ha...
love lidia
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigNovember 14, 2012 - 1:46pm
Are we allowed to ask about Chiasmus? I noticed it's open for subs and the website is looking beautiful...
drea
from Rural Alberta, Canada is reading between the linesNovember 15, 2012 - 7:03am
This is for Lidia OR anyone who wants to speculate/discuss.
How does Dora as a girl affect the story for you as readers?
Example: sometimes, I will switch the gender of the narrator after the first draft, just to make sure I'm not pandering to male/female stereotypes. It's pretty rare when everything else doesn't have to change; their reactions, emotions, etc. How would Dora's anger and its manifestation been different had the narrator been male? Does Dora get away with more or less than a boy would have?
Lidia Yuknavitch
from Portlandia is reading Zipper Mouth by Laurie WeeksNovember 15, 2012 - 4:47pm
@drea:
ANY questions about gender in Dora are important to me ... ha ... so i'll answer, but i can pretend to not be the author too ... well ok, maybe not.
but i intended for dora to be a boygirl, for little teena to be a girlboy, for marlena to be a manwoman or womanman, for obsidian to be a girlboy, and for ave maria to be a high note in music. ha. in other words, i meant the posse to have fluid genders...unfixable genders...genders they could change like wigs when they wanted to. when Dora has to suck her dad's friend's wang she's a het girl. she's a lesbian hopelessly in love with obsidian. she's huck finn when she sets out to castrate and film siggy...
whether any of that "worked" or not, who knows...but my aim was to get the reader to at least pause on the topic of gender codes and roles...
confession: i wish marlene had been my motherfather.
love lidia
Liana
from Romania and Texas is reading Naked LunchNovember 15, 2012 - 6:15pm
Hi Lidia!
I have just started the book, and I already feel as if Dora's voice is taking over my mind. It's a very intense, very demanding narrator, which makes the reading an intense experience. I was wondering how you were able to summon this very youthful voice (reading it makes me feel younger!). Are you tapping into your memories of beeing a teenager? Or is she a composite of different sources, to create this hectic teen personality?
I can already see how fluid the gender-identities are, and for some reason I find that relaxing, like a relief of some kind. Most people (probably myself included) try to "get" a certain gender to be able to write from that perspective, but this fluidity makes the stakes different. I'm looking forward to seeing what the posse is up to next. I love Obsidian!
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigNovember 15, 2012 - 6:49pm
I too, loved the gender fluidity, especially in the case of Dora who doesn't come at the reader as an obvious genderqueer. She is just who she is, and that brings elements of both gender roles. I definitely related to that, and I loved it. And the reminder that some people still FREAK OUT when a girl shaves her head. I mean, it happens, but it's so ridiculous--like it SHOULD be one of the farcicle elements, but it's a true reflection of how many people really think.
side note: I love the word farcicle.
Lidia Yuknavitch
from Portlandia is reading Zipper Mouth by Laurie WeeksNovember 16, 2012 - 3:59pm
@liana:
two things: 1. her voice literally woke me up out of a deep sleep one night (yep, i really heard her), and 2. she's a composite. absolutely. of my teen girlboy, all the young men and women i've worked with at the community college i teach at and the rehab workshops i do with teens, and everyone i love who was made to feel "wrong" or "less than" when they were growing up.
love lidia
Lidia Yuknavitch
from Portlandia is reading Zipper Mouth by Laurie WeeksNovember 16, 2012 - 4:00pm
@sparrowstark:
THANK YOU for saying something about her shaving her head. i just finished an essay about how and why i think gender is a hoax, and i learned a lot from watching/living/writing Dora...
love lidia
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigNovember 16, 2012 - 4:17pm
I got accused of being both a "skinbird" (female skinhead) and a "dyke" for most of my teens/early 20s because I keep my hair short, even when I was in the military and the only options were short hair or those AWFUL AWFUL sock buns. Maybe that's why it stood out to me?
wickedvoodoo
from Mansfield, England is reading stuff.November 16, 2012 - 4:19pm
Hey Renee - it's farcical - your version is like a frozen farce, hanging from a gutter ;-)
For me, the fluidity of sexuality is the core at the centre of this whole novel. I mentioned it on the last page, it's definitely the strongest theme I am left with after reading. Marlene and Dora herself both show how the spectrum can shift.
I think it's a great thing for novels to be featuring characters like these. We could do with getting a few books like this on to school syllabi around the world. Well, in England we could, anyway. Honestly some of the things this book touches on are just not taught here at an age before it might be too late for many people. It's not really covered by any 'compulsory' education when maybe it should be. Thinking back to my own experience with teachers, the older and more traditionally minded ones often seemed afraid of these issues and would perform staggering side-steps to avoid discussing it head on.
Things got better at uni, but then I was study just a few miles away from Loughborough, who's social sciences department is pretty much the Mecca of feminist and modern sexuality theory. We were lucky and got lectured by people who knew what they were on about.
Maybe the next generation of teachers, those that have grown up outside of the over-sheltering that has kept some parts of society oppressed in earlier generations, will be less afraid and more accepting of ideas that challenge the traditional.
Class Facilitator
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigNovember 16, 2012 - 4:22pm
Ah, well I like the word less now. Thanks for ruining it for me.
Hehe.
bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.November 19, 2012 - 5:53am
With the holidays almost upon us, what would Dora think of Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years? What about Valentine's Day?
Lidia Yuknavitch
from Portlandia is reading Zipper Mouth by Laurie WeeksNovember 20, 2012 - 11:23am
this:
"happy we stole your land and culture day" and "happy baby jesus tricked you into buying shit day" and "happy VD."
love lidia
Pete
from Detroit is reading Red DragonNovember 21, 2012 - 7:28am
Just finished this. I loved it.
Dora had such a unique, child-like voice. But, to me, it never came off as too child-like. Mostly just innocent.
Stuff that made her voice real for me were things like this:
Bats, rabbits, beavers, bears, foxes, coyotes, salmon, harbor seals, and all manner of birds... I had no idea how cool animals were until I met them.
And, yeah, a lot of the stuff seemed over the top, but it never seemed unbelievable to me. The characters made it work.
My only complaint would be that the posse, they were a little bit "yes Dora whatever you say." So I was kind of waiting for them to all be in her head at points. But, we are seeing the world from a troubled girl. She's the one telling the story. So maybe that is just how she saw her posse.
drea
from Rural Alberta, Canada is reading between the linesNovember 21, 2012 - 8:04am
Nice to have you join the conversation, Pete! And thanks for starting this discussion; it's been great.
Here is a link to an interview that Lidia did for Bitch Media. Go and read it, y'all! THIS...
Did you feel something in your body when you were reading this?” And if you did, then I don't care if you liked it or not—‘cause you feeling something in your body was my goal. I'm trying to build a back-to-the-body sense of what writing can be. It's not about the market. It's not plot-driven, it's not linear. It's “Can we feel our bodies again and enjoy literature and art through them?”
ReneeAPickup
from Southern California is reading Wanderers by Chuck WendigNovember 21, 2012 - 11:54am
My only complaint would be that the posse, they were a little bit "yes Dora whatever you say." So I was kind of waiting for them to all be in her head at points. But, we are seeing the world from a troubled girl. She's the one telling the story. So maybe that is just how she saw her posse.
Ah, but isn't that how we ALL saw our "posse" when we were teenagers? I mean, I saw my friends like the family I chose, and we ran together, got in trouble together, kept each other's secrets (even the BIG ones) and all of that. I mean, not to the extent that Dora's posse did, but we weren't in those situations.
Liana
from Romania and Texas is reading Naked LunchNovember 21, 2012 - 6:56pm
I finished the book! I have to say, I've been meaning to read your work, Lidia, for some time now, because our own LitReactor's Chester has been recommending you forever. This is the first book I finally got to read, and now I want to read more. I was pretty much blown away, having started this reading with no expectations (except intrigue).
Now if you're not a fan of Salinger, this may offend you, but to me this reads a bit like a vindication for girls who now have their own Catcher in the Rye. I'm not putting an equal sign between the books, not at all. The books are very different - but I think teenagers need to see themselves reflected in something other than Twilight. What I think it has in common with the Catcher is how much it brings out this voice of a child who has a newly found identity against the world. There is something in a teenager that discovers the world, sees it with a non-jaded eye and is stunned to see how much adults have messed it up (this world), including their families. And something screams in these teenagers, as if they see the truth and adults can't anymore, so they really want to be heard. Sometimes things that explode just settle on their own - that's the impression I got from the book. I love the ending, the way Dora and her mother finally converge again, after the whole girl drama unfolds. I hope you'll get as many girls (and boys) to be fans of the book as Salinger did.
And I like how you made Sig's character both completely disgusting and sympathetic. It's like you were rebelling against someone you also look up to (I'm assuming you liked your psychoanalysis classes - I know I did). You punished him and rewarded him (by not punishing him more).
I also like the way you messed with punctuation and created a flowing effect, very dynamic (that's part of the reason why I find Dora's voice so intense). Comma splices that unexpectedly make perfect sense. Question marks that are just stronger periods. Makes it fun to read.
Frankly, I love rebel-characters because I never got a rebellious stage of my own, except deep inside - never externalized it. But my sister - how she would have loved to read your book in her teens. I recognized a lot of her in Dora. My sister is now transitioning and is a he, more or less. But that's just me trying to show a few more ways in which the book made sense to me. I want to teach it in my classes! But my students may not be as cool as yours seem to be (you said they were part of your inspiration). Alas, I'm in Texas.
I'm all over the place with my response to finishing the book. I have one question: would you mind if I reviewed the book? There are a couple of places where I can do that.
Lidia Yuknavitch
from Portlandia is reading Zipper Mouth by Laurie WeeksNovember 23, 2012 - 6:03pm
@liana--yes there is a complete "riff" connected to catcher in the rye -- though i always felt that character was a whiney little bitch...ha. thanks for readilng the book and for your observations. all reviews are welcome!
@pete--yeah i know what you mean about the posse -- but i had a little posse as a girl and we would have taken a bullet for each other. plus ave maria does fuck shit up here and there, little teena was always already leaving, and obsidian is actually quite a bit stronger than ida/dora....
Lidia, what was on your reading list (fiction/nonfiction - excluding research material) while you were writing this book? Did you feel any change to your writing while reading those books (voice changes, use of different techniques, etc.)?
The discussion of the book is so interesting that I'm going to get it and read it even if I missed the chance to participate. Have I? (due to time/energy issues, I haven't been part of the reading group after the first 2 books). But since I took a couple of classes in psychoanalyis way back when, I am totally intrigued now.
@bryanhowie:
i don't let any books get in me when i'm writing a novel (with the exception of the source material of course)...every novel is literally it's own world. i mean i truly "leave" and go into the novel when i'm writing. sometimes it's hard to come back.
but there are books i've read in my past that absolutely influenced me in the writing of Dora--Cuckoo's nest, Catcher in the Rye, Trainspotting, A Clockwork Orange, Valencia, and the film Sweetie....
love lidia
This discussion goes all month, so you have time and the opportunity to write questions as you go.
The last novel length writing I did (it sucked, but it was a nice try), I had a playlist that I kept repeating (mostly Tom Waits). Next time, I plan on having a different group of songs (3-5) per chapter as an experiment. Is there a music list you put together for the novel?
^ oooh, good question. (One of my to-do projects is to compile a play list from a book of essays I just finished.)
@bryanhowie:
i usually "genius" my whole stash depending on my mood. but it often includes pixies, velvet underground, miles davis, john coltrane, patti smith, leonard cohen, the cure, X, rage against the machine, morrisy, nirvana, dresden dolls, throwing muses, dead can dance, cocteau twins, bach, elliott smith (which always makes me bawl), and joan jett, and billie holiday among many many many many many many others...
Lidia,
Are either of the next to novels you mentioned "The small backs of children" ?
Lidia, what are the last 3 books you've read that you'd recommend and why? Can you relate your choices to Dora?
Lidia, I was wondering about your previous work. Before this you have published a memoir and collections. Was it intimidating publishing a novel after so much previous non novel work, or was it fine?
Also, any plans to put that first collection back into print?
Jay-- I was able to buy Real To Reel frm Barnes & Noble online around April this year.
Oh, I didn't mean that one, I think it's called Her Other Mouths.
Oh, well color me out of the loop.
Lidia, are there any plans for an audiobook of Chronology of Water? It was the best memoir I've ever read, but I really want to listen to that book, too.
@voodoo:
um, my next novel is a little up in the air...i have more than one in the hopper, and the sharks are doing their shark thingee right now...so i don't know what my next birth into the world will be. i've decided to not care. i had a kind of existential crisis recently where i realized that chasing shiny things is not for me....i just want to write. if it doesn't turn shiny, well oh well, you know?
love lidia
@bryanhowie:
i read junot diaz's new book, i read joy harjo's new book, and i read the galley of monica drake's new book. i'm hoping you have to go look them up now and you'll impulse shop. before that i read IQ84 and fucking LOVED it, and val mcdermid's latest thriller. go lesbian thriller lady.
none of 'em have jack shit to do with Dora. ha. i read all the time. and i'm a slutty reader, as mentioned earlier....i'll read most things.
love lidia
@JSJ:
nah, it was not hard. the order a writer WRITES stuff in is not always the order PUBLICATION happens...you know what i mean? i will say this: i still believe fiction is the revolutionary form for capturing experience and challenging readers. it interests me how much people love creative nonfiction. i see little to no distinction, but every time i talk about it, i get in trouble...ha.
love lidia
hey the thing about out of print books? no one wants to republish them unless you are BIG TIME. then they get bought up by BIG TIME houses and re-released. see cheryl strayed's Torch.
OR, Dzanc is doing re-releases of indie books, because they are gods.
i'd love to revamp/redo my first collection of short stories. there. sending THAT intention out into the world...ha. i wrote them when i was 25, and now i'm 50, so it's REALLY FASCINATING the conversations i have in my head between those two women.
love lidia
@bryanhowie:
i think if i was with a bigger house i'd already have an audio book deal for COW....but so far, i don't. there's some filmic interest in COW and Dora, but i believe in that kind of like the tooth fairy, you know? ha...
love lidia
Are we allowed to ask about Chiasmus? I noticed it's open for subs and the website is looking beautiful...
This is for Lidia OR anyone who wants to speculate/discuss.
How does Dora as a girl affect the story for you as readers?
Example: sometimes, I will switch the gender of the narrator after the first draft, just to make sure I'm not pandering to male/female stereotypes. It's pretty rare when everything else doesn't have to change; their reactions, emotions, etc. How would Dora's anger and its manifestation been different had the narrator been male? Does Dora get away with more or less than a boy would have?
@drea:
ANY questions about gender in Dora are important to me ... ha ... so i'll answer, but i can pretend to not be the author too ... well ok, maybe not.
but i intended for dora to be a boygirl, for little teena to be a girlboy, for marlena to be a manwoman or womanman, for obsidian to be a girlboy, and for ave maria to be a high note in music. ha. in other words, i meant the posse to have fluid genders...unfixable genders...genders they could change like wigs when they wanted to. when Dora has to suck her dad's friend's wang she's a het girl. she's a lesbian hopelessly in love with obsidian. she's huck finn when she sets out to castrate and film siggy...
whether any of that "worked" or not, who knows...but my aim was to get the reader to at least pause on the topic of gender codes and roles...
confession: i wish marlene had been my motherfather.
love lidia
Hi Lidia!
I have just started the book, and I already feel as if Dora's voice is taking over my mind. It's a very intense, very demanding narrator, which makes the reading an intense experience. I was wondering how you were able to summon this very youthful voice (reading it makes me feel younger!). Are you tapping into your memories of beeing a teenager? Or is she a composite of different sources, to create this hectic teen personality?
I can already see how fluid the gender-identities are, and for some reason I find that relaxing, like a relief of some kind. Most people (probably myself included) try to "get" a certain gender to be able to write from that perspective, but this fluidity makes the stakes different. I'm looking forward to seeing what the posse is up to next. I love Obsidian!
I too, loved the gender fluidity, especially in the case of Dora who doesn't come at the reader as an obvious genderqueer. She is just who she is, and that brings elements of both gender roles. I definitely related to that, and I loved it. And the reminder that some people still FREAK OUT when a girl shaves her head. I mean, it happens, but it's so ridiculous--like it SHOULD be one of the farcicle elements, but it's a true reflection of how many people really think.
side note: I love the word farcicle.
@liana:
two things: 1. her voice literally woke me up out of a deep sleep one night (yep, i really heard her), and 2. she's a composite. absolutely. of my teen girlboy, all the young men and women i've worked with at the community college i teach at and the rehab workshops i do with teens, and everyone i love who was made to feel "wrong" or "less than" when they were growing up.
love lidia
@sparrowstark:
THANK YOU for saying something about her shaving her head. i just finished an essay about how and why i think gender is a hoax, and i learned a lot from watching/living/writing Dora...
love lidia
I got accused of being both a "skinbird" (female skinhead) and a "dyke" for most of my teens/early 20s because I keep my hair short, even when I was in the military and the only options were short hair or those AWFUL AWFUL sock buns. Maybe that's why it stood out to me?
Hey Renee - it's farcical - your version is like a frozen farce, hanging from a gutter ;-)
For me, the fluidity of sexuality is the core at the centre of this whole novel. I mentioned it on the last page, it's definitely the strongest theme I am left with after reading. Marlene and Dora herself both show how the spectrum can shift.
I think it's a great thing for novels to be featuring characters like these. We could do with getting a few books like this on to school syllabi around the world. Well, in England we could, anyway. Honestly some of the things this book touches on are just not taught here at an age before it might be too late for many people. It's not really covered by any 'compulsory' education when maybe it should be. Thinking back to my own experience with teachers, the older and more traditionally minded ones often seemed afraid of these issues and would perform staggering side-steps to avoid discussing it head on.
Things got better at uni, but then I was study just a few miles away from Loughborough, who's social sciences department is pretty much the Mecca of feminist and modern sexuality theory. We were lucky and got lectured by people who knew what they were on about.
Maybe the next generation of teachers, those that have grown up outside of the over-sheltering that has kept some parts of society oppressed in earlier generations, will be less afraid and more accepting of ideas that challenge the traditional.
Ah, well I like the word less now. Thanks for ruining it for me.
Hehe.
With the holidays almost upon us, what would Dora think of Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years? What about Valentine's Day?
this:
"happy we stole your land and culture day" and "happy baby jesus tricked you into buying shit day" and "happy VD."
love lidia
Just finished this. I loved it.
Dora had such a unique, child-like voice. But, to me, it never came off as too child-like. Mostly just innocent.
Stuff that made her voice real for me were things like this:
And, yeah, a lot of the stuff seemed over the top, but it never seemed unbelievable to me. The characters made it work.
My only complaint would be that the posse, they were a little bit "yes Dora whatever you say." So I was kind of waiting for them to all be in her head at points. But, we are seeing the world from a troubled girl. She's the one telling the story. So maybe that is just how she saw her posse.
Nice to have you join the conversation, Pete! And thanks for starting this discussion; it's been great.
Here is a link to an interview that Lidia did for Bitch Media. Go and read it, y'all! THIS...
http://bitchmagazine.org/post/bibliobitch-author-lidia-yuknavitchs-freudian-flip
Ah, but isn't that how we ALL saw our "posse" when we were teenagers? I mean, I saw my friends like the family I chose, and we ran together, got in trouble together, kept each other's secrets (even the BIG ones) and all of that. I mean, not to the extent that Dora's posse did, but we weren't in those situations.
I finished the book! I have to say, I've been meaning to read your work, Lidia, for some time now, because our own LitReactor's Chester has been recommending you forever. This is the first book I finally got to read, and now I want to read more. I was pretty much blown away, having started this reading with no expectations (except intrigue).
Now if you're not a fan of Salinger, this may offend you, but to me this reads a bit like a vindication for girls who now have their own Catcher in the Rye. I'm not putting an equal sign between the books, not at all. The books are very different - but I think teenagers need to see themselves reflected in something other than Twilight. What I think it has in common with the Catcher is how much it brings out this voice of a child who has a newly found identity against the world. There is something in a teenager that discovers the world, sees it with a non-jaded eye and is stunned to see how much adults have messed it up (this world), including their families. And something screams in these teenagers, as if they see the truth and adults can't anymore, so they really want to be heard. Sometimes things that explode just settle on their own - that's the impression I got from the book. I love the ending, the way Dora and her mother finally converge again, after the whole girl drama unfolds. I hope you'll get as many girls (and boys) to be fans of the book as Salinger did.
And I like how you made Sig's character both completely disgusting and sympathetic. It's like you were rebelling against someone you also look up to (I'm assuming you liked your psychoanalysis classes - I know I did). You punished him and rewarded him (by not punishing him more).
I also like the way you messed with punctuation and created a flowing effect, very dynamic (that's part of the reason why I find Dora's voice so intense). Comma splices that unexpectedly make perfect sense. Question marks that are just stronger periods. Makes it fun to read.
Frankly, I love rebel-characters because I never got a rebellious stage of my own, except deep inside - never externalized it. But my sister - how she would have loved to read your book in her teens. I recognized a lot of her in Dora. My sister is now transitioning and is a he, more or less. But that's just me trying to show a few more ways in which the book made sense to me. I want to teach it in my classes! But my students may not be as cool as yours seem to be (you said they were part of your inspiration). Alas, I'm in Texas.
I'm all over the place with my response to finishing the book. I have one question: would you mind if I reviewed the book? There are a couple of places where I can do that.
@liana--yes there is a complete "riff" connected to catcher in the rye -- though i always felt that character was a whiney little bitch...ha. thanks for readilng the book and for your observations. all reviews are welcome!
@pete--yeah i know what you mean about the posse -- but i had a little posse as a girl and we would have taken a bullet for each other. plus ave maria does fuck shit up here and there, little teena was always already leaving, and obsidian is actually quite a bit stronger than ida/dora....
love lidia