... and I firmly stand by that. But I was watching Gran Trano last night, and I really loved how it captured people who say horrible things to each other in a very friendly, almost loving way, as a joke. I've never been able to really capture that on paper, and one of the prime phrases I feel has almost come off how I wanted it was 'stop kicking so many puppies you sick...' I was wondering if you guys had any relivant thoughts.
I think trying to capture that has to be done very carefully, because it will not work 9 times out of 10. It'd be easy to fall into unrealistic dialogue (a la early Kevin Smith films) or a bunch of people speaking out of character. Because you want to make sure that the sarcasm, something that sometimes does not translate well when written, is very apparent, so I think the characters who talk like this need to be VERY well written so that it makes sense.
It certainly can be done, but I have not found that voice, so I have no advice on how to do it, only how NOT to do it.
I think it has a lot to do with character develpment. It works so well in Gran Torino because Eastwood has the attitude of a cynical asshole throughout most of the movie. Just showing him being bitter gives him that fuck everything vibe, and it makes you listen to him with a different ear.
If you take Kevin Spacey's character in American Beauty, there is this escapist vibe to him, and you root for him to do gratifying shit that really isn't okay.
If you give a rationale, I think the reader is less inclined to hold judgement against the character.
Maybe I'm wrong. Just a thought.
I agree with Devon. I think the reason you're running into difficulty pulling off those kind of scenes, is that you haven't established a set of characters from which these sorts of interactions can initiate naturally.
I am reading Donald Maas' book 'The Fire in Fiction', and there is an interesting set of exercises at the end of the chapter on characterization. A couple of the exercises are based not on what traits a character posesses, but how their antithesis reacts to these traits. What do they admire about the other character?
So think about the characters who would be involved in the exchange. If one of them is a better speaker/funnier/more sarcastic, how would the other character react to the 1st character's comments? Then you have an interaction where your characters can converse instead of the author feeding them lines that match up to what the author *thinks* the interaction would be like.
JGB, how is that Maas book? I have it, it was a Christmas present. Was curious where to prioritize it on my shelf.
Utah,
It's *alright*, it has a few moments (at the end of each chapter there are exercises that I've found pretty useful), but I much preferred his other book 'Writing The Breakout Novel', which was less writing technique and more about writing saleable novels. The writing advice in FIRE is not much different than most other 'how to' books.
I wouldn't prioritize it too highly, but if you're really interested in writing commercial novels, it's worth a look.
Outstanding. Thank you for the advice. Think I'll probably keep that one where it is for the time being, then.
Did you read 'Writing the Breakout Novel'? I really enjoyed that book. I have no proof that it has benefitted me in anyway, but it certainly felt like it was helping at the time.
I have not read that one, but I think it is another that I own for reasons I can no longer remember. I've got a lot of books like that.
This is one of the reasons I always appreciated comics (before I had to give it up, for writing poetry). The thing I always appreciate was how you could communicate irony by showing a statement made, but have like a completely opposite reaction.
I'm not sure how one might mimmick that nuance, without using extremely long dialogue tags. Or have something like, "He said. But he was actually saying it in jest."
But this would get out of control, if a lot of your book has that subtle ironic language.
I'm thinking that the response to the horrible things said in a loving nature is what allows the reader to understand what's really behind it. You could narrate it to a point, too, I suppose, but from the other person's point of view would still be better.
If a woman said "oh fuck off, asshole"
And the man replies "right love you too, babe." Or makes a funny face at her or something.
And then she smiles, and by then it's obvoius they're not really fighting. Or maybe their actions are more delayed, but still, it's about the response, I think.
But puppy kicking is still inexcusable, unless maybe you thought it was a cat.