wickedvoodoo
from Mansfield, England is reading stuff.February 24, 2012 - 2:18am
Well I've not been able to be in this thread anything like as much as I'd have liked but I shall dip my feet in again now.
I loved this book. These are some of the creepiest characters I've ever met, but I liked them anyway.
Very much so. Carl was very creepy, particularly when he was alone. Also, Roy and Theodore were SO fucked up. Theodore was a mess, a real dirty motherfucker. You could pretty much smell that nasty dude right from the page. Hard to do that level of repulsiveness well.
Reading through the book this second time (still not finished), I have been noticing something I didn't realy catch the first reading. It's all love stories. Just one love story after another. Some of them are tragic (any love story, if taken far enough, is tragic, because they all end in death), but some of them are pretty sweet.
I don't know why I didn't notice it, since the story starts with a love story of a man falling in love at one look at a waitress (Willard and Charlotte), and then it's one love story after another.
One of the quickest, to me, is Arvin's (Willard's son), when he finds a dog. One moment he has a best friend, and then it's dead and crucified.
Of all of them, it's the crazy love of Willard that is the most powerful to me. Going crazy praying for his love and never abandoning it, going so far as to recreate the worst thing he's ever seen (the army man strung up and cut open) with a dog (which stands in for Christ on the cross here). Love so powerful it wrecks the man.
Which love story do you guys think is the most powerful or like the best?
Hmm. Awesome post, Bryan. I agree that Willards love is the most powerfully displayed. It, after all, sets the whole of the rest of the events into motion. And it ends in a raving zealot almost brainwashing his child whilst crucifying animals and engage in all kind of blood-fun. That is going off the rails. Damn, that woman must have been something.
But here's something. Willard actually pissed me off. The guy was worse than the 'bad-guys.' He for me, is the guy that epitomises evil here. It's the god thing. Fanatic zealots get me every time. I can hate them so easily.
Arvin gets the sympathy vote so is immune from this line of thinking.
Willard though, no. I just couldn't gather up any sympathy for a man who turns to fanatisism so quickly. He took all the power of his love and made something terrible out of it.
I like the bleak taste this book left in my mouth. Same with Knockemstiff. Both books are ugly and nasty and sometimes thats exactly what people need to read. There's no redemption. No silver lining. I mean, come on, what's the best life we can imagine for Arvin after him going through all that? A grim one, that's what.
bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.February 24, 2012 - 9:54am
The more I think about it, the more I see Willard as a reluctant apostle. Willard saw Christ in the South Pacific Theater of the war. A man tortured and crucified by zealots, hung out as an example of what having too strong of a belief can do to a person (both to the torturers and to the man on the cross).
Maybe that man on the cross (both christ and the soldier) is a theme of the book. If you suffer for other people's sins, those sins go unrepented. Willard carried the suffering of that soldier inside his head for years until sickness grabbed his wife. Then he turned right to the most traumatisiing thing he has ever known - which was a painful, slow death.
He granted that stranger on a cross the quick death that he couldn't give to the person he loved the most.
Willard has already been fighting the Devil, and when he reaches out for God, the only God he knows has been one of suffering, gruesome sacrifices, and death.
If Willard could have stopped fighting the Devil, he could have been free from what he thought of as God. He could have spent quality time with his dying wife instead of leaving her in a stuffy room while he prayed his brains to nothing.
While not stated in the text, I think Willard blames himself for his wife's sickness. That possibly it is his devil inside him that causes the perfect person to be afflicted with illness. And his fight to save her is as heroic as it is misguided.
Pete
from Detroit is reading Red DragonFebruary 24, 2012 - 10:26am
While not stated in the text, I think Willard blames himself for his wife's sickness. That possibly it is his devil inside him that causes the perfect person to be afflicted with illness. And his fight to save her is as heroic as it is misguided.
I think that statement there sums up Willard nicely.
Chester Pane
from Portland, Oregon is reading The Brief and Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot DiazFebruary 25, 2012 - 10:10pm
Again, nice interpretations B.H.
And Martin, I agree, Willard is the most frustrating and unforgivable character for what he did to Arvin.
wickedvoodoo
from Mansfield, England is reading stuff.February 28, 2012 - 8:08pm
How was everyone feeling the whole 'new-preacher-in-town' part of the book?
I thought Arvin's adopted sister was a god-fearing doormat that was asking for a bad time but it still got a little bile rising when the new preacher started putting the moves on her. Again, grim and ugly, done so well. God botherers and kiddie-fiddlers may be obvious choices for antagonists (particularly in a book set in hillbilly country) but I think it takes skill to write something so familiar yet keep the impact and shock factor.
However it was possibly a tiny bit too predictable. From the first page or two he was introduced I was safely betting this guy was going to be either a molesteror or a drug dealer. It just about got away with it though, because it uses it to form the stepping stone that gets Arvin away from his home so the 'showdown' events could begin.
Arvin got an odd combination of responses from me here. There was pity, but also there was admiration too. If I ever need to murder someone I hope I can do it as level headedly as that one went down. Here is where he shows he has shrugged off Willards ugly influences. He never goes mindless, never becomes the zealot.
Richard
from St. Louis is reading various anthologiesFebruary 29, 2012 - 9:38am
i've sent off the final batch of questions to Don. no more, please. will post up his responses soon.
Pete
from Detroit is reading Red DragonFebruary 29, 2012 - 10:08am
This was a great month. Thanks Richard for all the work you did!
Flaminia Ferina
from Umbria is reading stuffFebruary 29, 2012 - 2:23pm
I haven't finished the book yet, but I'm just back from reading the Zit-Eater bit and in case Mr. Pollock shall take a look at this post one day he's got to know it. Mr. Pollock, you know how to terrorize people. You're a fucking genius.
Fabio Deotto
from Italy is reading "Sunset Park" by Paul AusterApril 18, 2012 - 12:44am
For those of you who can read Italian, here's a review of "The devil all the time" (Le strade del Male, in italian), published on a well-known literary webzine, where I quoted some of the discussions in this forum. Enjoy!
Flaminia Ferina
from Umbria is reading stuffApril 20, 2012 - 4:57am
Great review, Fabio, finally a decent one of The Devil al the Time, in Italian. That confirms Carmilla as one of the best Italian literary resources online.
And thank you for the kind words about the Litreactor community!
Chris Payne
from Canada is reading On The RoadJanuary 8, 2013 - 1:55pm
Looking forard to reading this (This will be my first time doing this book club) but Knockemstiff is my favorite book of all time.
Stacy Kear
from Bucyrus, Ohio lives in New Jersey is reading The Art of War January 8, 2013 - 6:03pm
Awesome book! And a really cool guy. This is last year's February book.
Dino Parenti
from Los Angeles is reading Everything He Gets His Hands OnJanuary 8, 2013 - 6:09pm
Love this guy's stuff!
bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.January 8, 2013 - 6:24pm
I could read this again and again. One of my favorite books.
Chris Payne
from Canada is reading On The RoadJanuary 8, 2013 - 10:29pm
this is last years haha, well at least it got me to order this from Amazon :)
Chris Payne
from Canada is reading On The RoadJanuary 8, 2013 - 10:29pm
this is last years haha, well at least it got me to order this from Amazon :)
Pete
from Detroit is reading Red DragonJanuary 9, 2013 - 6:16am
This years Feb book is above - The Sound of Loneliness by Craig Wallwork.
Moderator
Utah
from Fort Worth, TX is reading Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtryJanuary 9, 2013 - 7:00am
Here I was all excited the book club selection was something I had already read.
Once again, I lose.
bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.January 9, 2013 - 9:39am
We should do "Winter's Bone" by Daniel Woodrell. That's another book I could read over and over again. I really love Ree more than is probably healthy.
Renfield
from Hell is reading 20th Century GhostsJanuary 10, 2013 - 12:46am
We should do "Winter's Bone" by Daniel Woodrell. That's another book I could read over and over again. I really love Ree more than is probably healthy.
How old is that now? Don't think it would be feasable to do a kind-of older yet somewhat-famous book so late when there're unsung small press books and brand new releases to talk about. I do also have Woodrell's Bayou Trilogy series that I haven't yet finished myself. A series could be interesting to do as a book club discussion, but then thats like what 800 pages to prepare for.
I think I didn't participate in this orginal discussion because I didn't finish the book from the library. I think coming just off the heels of Knockemstiff I was really lusting off the range of that collection that this book was great, but I still had a longing for more from the writing and it really sapped that urge to plow through the narrative. Gotta put this on the calender to reread soon.
bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.January 11, 2013 - 9:20am
I just suggested it because I'm actually reading it again right now. It might be older (and have an amazing movie adaption), but it's a book that I love.
bryanhowie
from FW, ID is reading East of Eden. Steinbeck is FUCKING AMAZING.January 11, 2013 - 9:21am
It also opens up the discussion about how to write a strong, rounded female protagonist under extremely harsh conditions.
Michael J. Riser
from CA, TX, Japan, back to CA is reading The Tyrant - Michael Cisco, The Devil Takes You Home - Gabino IglesiasJanuary 11, 2013 - 12:55pm
Damn, I got fooled too. I thought this was finally going to force me to read this. I bought it forever ago along with Knockemstiff when Borders was closing. I've yet to read either. Was reading through the thread until I realized the dates were all from 2012.
Well I've not been able to be in this thread anything like as much as I'd have liked but I shall dip my feet in again now.
Very much so. Carl was very creepy, particularly when he was alone. Also, Roy and Theodore were SO fucked up. Theodore was a mess, a real dirty motherfucker. You could pretty much smell that nasty dude right from the page. Hard to do that level of repulsiveness well.
Hmm. Awesome post, Bryan. I agree that Willards love is the most powerfully displayed. It, after all, sets the whole of the rest of the events into motion. And it ends in a raving zealot almost brainwashing his child whilst crucifying animals and engage in all kind of blood-fun. That is going off the rails. Damn, that woman must have been something.
But here's something. Willard actually pissed me off. The guy was worse than the 'bad-guys.' He for me, is the guy that epitomises evil here. It's the god thing. Fanatic zealots get me every time. I can hate them so easily.
Arvin gets the sympathy vote so is immune from this line of thinking.
Willard though, no. I just couldn't gather up any sympathy for a man who turns to fanatisism so quickly. He took all the power of his love and made something terrible out of it.
I like the bleak taste this book left in my mouth. Same with Knockemstiff. Both books are ugly and nasty and sometimes thats exactly what people need to read. There's no redemption. No silver lining. I mean, come on, what's the best life we can imagine for Arvin after him going through all that? A grim one, that's what.
The more I think about it, the more I see Willard as a reluctant apostle. Willard saw Christ in the South Pacific Theater of the war. A man tortured and crucified by zealots, hung out as an example of what having too strong of a belief can do to a person (both to the torturers and to the man on the cross).
Maybe that man on the cross (both christ and the soldier) is a theme of the book. If you suffer for other people's sins, those sins go unrepented. Willard carried the suffering of that soldier inside his head for years until sickness grabbed his wife. Then he turned right to the most traumatisiing thing he has ever known - which was a painful, slow death.
He granted that stranger on a cross the quick death that he couldn't give to the person he loved the most.
Willard has already been fighting the Devil, and when he reaches out for God, the only God he knows has been one of suffering, gruesome sacrifices, and death.
If Willard could have stopped fighting the Devil, he could have been free from what he thought of as God. He could have spent quality time with his dying wife instead of leaving her in a stuffy room while he prayed his brains to nothing.
While not stated in the text, I think Willard blames himself for his wife's sickness. That possibly it is his devil inside him that causes the perfect person to be afflicted with illness. And his fight to save her is as heroic as it is misguided.
I think that statement there sums up Willard nicely.
Again, nice interpretations B.H.
And Martin, I agree, Willard is the most frustrating and unforgivable character for what he did to Arvin.
How was everyone feeling the whole 'new-preacher-in-town' part of the book?
I thought Arvin's adopted sister was a god-fearing doormat that was asking for a bad time but it still got a little bile rising when the new preacher started putting the moves on her. Again, grim and ugly, done so well. God botherers and kiddie-fiddlers may be obvious choices for antagonists (particularly in a book set in hillbilly country) but I think it takes skill to write something so familiar yet keep the impact and shock factor.
However it was possibly a tiny bit too predictable. From the first page or two he was introduced I was safely betting this guy was going to be either a molesteror or a drug dealer. It just about got away with it though, because it uses it to form the stepping stone that gets Arvin away from his home so the 'showdown' events could begin.
Arvin got an odd combination of responses from me here. There was pity, but also there was admiration too. If I ever need to murder someone I hope I can do it as level headedly as that one went down. Here is where he shows he has shrugged off Willards ugly influences. He never goes mindless, never becomes the zealot.
i've sent off the final batch of questions to Don. no more, please. will post up his responses soon.
This was a great month. Thanks Richard for all the work you did!
I haven't finished the book yet, but I'm just back from reading the Zit-Eater bit and in case Mr. Pollock shall take a look at this post one day he's got to know it. Mr. Pollock, you know how to terrorize people. You're a fucking genius.
For those of you who can read Italian, here's a review of "The devil all the time" (Le strade del Male, in italian), published on a well-known literary webzine, where I quoted some of the discussions in this forum. Enjoy!
http://www.carmillaonline.com/archives/2012/04/004269print.html
Great review, Fabio, finally a decent one of The Devil al the Time, in Italian. That confirms Carmilla as one of the best Italian literary resources online.
And thank you for the kind words about the Litreactor community!
Looking forard to reading this (This will be my first time doing this book club) but Knockemstiff is my favorite book of all time.
Awesome book! And a really cool guy. This is last year's February book.
Love this guy's stuff!
I could read this again and again. One of my favorite books.
this is last years haha, well at least it got me to order this from Amazon :)
this is last years haha, well at least it got me to order this from Amazon :)
This years Feb book is above - The Sound of Loneliness by Craig Wallwork.
Here I was all excited the book club selection was something I had already read.
Once again, I lose.
We should do "Winter's Bone" by Daniel Woodrell. That's another book I could read over and over again. I really love Ree more than is probably healthy.
How old is that now? Don't think it would be feasable to do a kind-of older yet somewhat-famous book so late when there're unsung small press books and brand new releases to talk about. I do also have Woodrell's Bayou Trilogy series that I haven't yet finished myself. A series could be interesting to do as a book club discussion, but then thats like what 800 pages to prepare for.
I think I didn't participate in this orginal discussion because I didn't finish the book from the library. I think coming just off the heels of Knockemstiff I was really lusting off the range of that collection that this book was great, but I still had a longing for more from the writing and it really sapped that urge to plow through the narrative. Gotta put this on the calender to reread soon.
I just suggested it because I'm actually reading it again right now. It might be older (and have an amazing movie adaption), but it's a book that I love.
It also opens up the discussion about how to write a strong, rounded female protagonist under extremely harsh conditions.
Damn, I got fooled too. I thought this was finally going to force me to read this. I bought it forever ago along with Knockemstiff when Borders was closing. I've yet to read either. Was reading through the thread until I realized the dates were all from 2012.
Anybody want to do a round 2? haha