Brandon
from KCMO is reading Made to BreakDecember 17, 2011 - 8:02am
Dude, you gotta read The Virgin Suicides and then Paris and the Hiltons needs to do a song about it.
Great movie, too:
Deets999
from Connecticut is reading Adjustment DayDecember 17, 2011 - 11:01am
I finished this book a few weeks ago and really enjoyed. I didn't quite connect with it the way I did with JE's previous two novels, but The Marriage Plot was still a page turner and easily one of the better reads this year. The whole marriage device explanation in a book that dealt with marriage was pretty interesting. The characters were fleshed out nicely and I found my sympathies continually shifting from one to the other. I loved the mood/tone of Virgin Suicides, the intricacies of Middlesex - but this one kind of felt like JE's most personal story - a very accessible read. The ending fit nicely - I think Madeline could probably benefit from some time away from men for a bit - which I think was kind of the point of the story ( at least one of them). Overall, the book did not disappoint - I just hope I don't have to wait another decade for the next one!
Charles
from Portland is reading Mongrels by Stephen Graham JonesDecember 18, 2011 - 10:10pm
@liz: one of the main sticking points to win the pulitzer is to speak to a uniquely american experience. that said, the books/education/feminist bacground coupled with references to the talking heads, a manic-depressive boyfriend and people who shave off their eyebrows and talk about semiotics like they know what it is... is a most uniquely american thing.
all that aside, to me it made the characters unrelateable and flat. everyone falling back on philosophers for opinions, rather than having their own. i suppose this could be true (it's still a stretch in my opinion) for young college students. im thinking freshman/sophomore. but these people are graduating seniors, who, in my opinion should be able to reach into those philosophers, and all their classes and abstractions to make their own opinions.
that's without the eye-roll worthy writing along the lines of: there were better places to put thurston, but madeline decided he would never go there.
Fylh
from from from is reading is from is reading is reading is reading reading is readingDecember 19, 2011 - 7:17am
@liz: one of the main sticking points to win the pulitzer is to speak to a uniquely american experience. that said, the books/education/feminist bacground coupled with references to the talking heads, a manic-depressive boyfriend and people who shave off their eyebrows and talk about semiotics like they know what it is... is a most uniquely american thing.
Except, of course, that semiotics in the sense it's used in the novel was a French phenomenon that found favor in the US, and that the feminist in the book happens to be influenced by French feminism which is not the same as American feminism (and we only meet her in a European setting), and that manic depression is not a uniquely American thing, etc..., right?
Fylh
from from from is reading is from is reading is reading is reading reading is readingDecember 19, 2011 - 7:18am
I should also point out that it's not, strictly speaking, a bad thing when not everyone has an opinion.
Hetch Litman
from Somewhere in the mountains of the Pacific Northwest is reading The Violent Bear it Away by Flannery O'Connor December 19, 2011 - 10:14am
@brandon said: "I liked this one more than Middlesex"
That is amazing. I'm 300 pages in and think this doesn't hold a candle to Middlesex.
Raelyn
from California is reading The Liars' ClubDecember 19, 2011 - 5:58pm
Ending?
Liana
from Romania and Texas is reading Naked LunchDecember 20, 2011 - 4:23pm
The problem I'm having with the college world as it appears in the novel is that it's a bit too paint by numbers for my taste. Insert tormented smart guy who's even more messed up than he seems, insert girl worth pining after becuase she's sweet but not too sweet and smart but not too smart, insert superficially interesting theory lovers, insert - yes - French trends, and trips to Paris, of course.
I do like to be reminded of college but it's certainly not exactlly what I experienced, though I was an international student so my experience was by definition different from the one of most characters. I relate to a few things, but not to the endless navel gazing of these characters (I don't think I do).
I haven't finished yet though.
Fylh
from from from is reading is from is reading is reading is reading reading is readingDecember 21, 2011 - 4:00am
I was an international student and all I did was navel gaze and talk about theory. There's something to it.
Liana
from Romania and Texas is reading Naked LunchDecember 21, 2011 - 12:43pm
Well, I meant the characters do it more in a whiny kind of way. But I loved theory too. I guess when you put it down on paper, it gets to sound pretty self-serving anyway. If I had had a journal at the time, I'm sure it would have sounded much whinier than their thought process, so I wasn't being too fair. But their whining sometimes sounds a bit juvenile.
Melody
January 2, 2012 - 2:21pm
It has taken me far longer to read this than I anticipated. Mostly because December was a very busy month for me. I was almost done, but then I was stuck at my mother's house without my kindle yesterday and I picked up The Hunger Games Finished that this morning, but now I have to read the other two. I'm at 91% on The Marriage Plot, so it shouldn't be too long before I finish and can join in whatever discussion is still going.
Pete
from Detroit is reading Red DragonJanuary 9, 2012 - 12:41am
Finished!
I have to say, nothing happened the way I thought it was going to. Everytime I thought I was figuring it out, he through a wrench into the works.
I really really thought that Leonard was going to off himself. I was pretty much waiting for that most of the book. And then towards the end, I thought it was obvious he was going to do it. And then he didn't...
At first I thought Mitchell was never going to get her. Then I was pissed because it was so obvious that he was going to get her. But, he really handled it classy in the end. I liked that.
Did anybody else think the end was sort of abrupt? Well besides Raelyn because she said the exact same thing. haha.
Raelyn
from California is reading The Liars' ClubJanuary 9, 2012 - 12:57am
I really liked the abruptness of the ending, and thought it worked well for what Eugenides was doing: creating a new age marriage plot. If you've ever seen the anime series Neon Genesis: Evangelion, in a very round-about way the ending of The Marriage Plot reminded me of NGE's ending. When asked, however, I wouldn't be able to articulate why since they touch upon extremely different topics.
In an earlier post I said I was absolutely 100% sure that Mitchell and Madeleine would get married by the end of the book. I thought this right up until the last page, which I reread over and over just to make sure I was wrong. Also, I too thought Leonard was going to off himself: specifically when they're in the train station. I was just waiting for him to jump in front of it.
Fylh
from from from is reading is from is reading is reading is reading reading is readingJanuary 9, 2012 - 2:07am
Evangelion is a work of art. Seriously one of my favorite man-created things.
Raelyn
from California is reading The Liars' ClubJanuary 9, 2012 - 3:00am
So do you agree with the similarity with the endings? As in the abruptness from Madeleine's statement in comparison to the abruptness of Asuka's.
Pete
from Detroit is reading Red DragonJanuary 9, 2012 - 5:05pm
I thought for sure Leonard was jumping in front of that train! And I also thought that Mitchell told him to do it. Like maybe Leonard asked Mitchell for advice because he knew he was a religion major and Mitchell gave him bad advice so he could "win."
Liana
from Romania and Texas is reading Naked LunchJanuary 19, 2012 - 6:04pm
Oh this thread is falling into obscurity before I got a chance to finish the book. My fault only. And I do enjoy reading it, except I had to stop for a while because of time issues. Well, if I finish it soon, I'll drop off some kind of a conclusion in this defunct thread.
Jack
from England is reading texts of rejection from pretty ladiesJanuary 31, 2012 - 11:13am
I just finished the book. My first Euginedes, but there will be more.
The way time was handled in the narrative was expertly done. Winding backwards and forwards, but with such control. The honeymoon being bookended by their life in marriage for example.
I'm glad of Mitchell's final decision. They were wise.
Loved the use of semiotics and philosophy to talk about their feelings.
Beautifully written. The section of Leonard's mania was perhaps the best depiction of the illness I've ever read.
The Mitchell sections also had a strange effect on me, in that I came very close to understanding (at least I think I did) what the religious feel and experience. What they gain.
Loved it.
Jack
from England is reading texts of rejection from pretty ladiesJanuary 31, 2012 - 12:04pm
Oops, double post.
Liana
from Romania and Texas is reading Naked LunchFebruary 5, 2012 - 9:44pm
Finally found the time to go back and finish this book. It's been a weird discussion with people randomly finishing and talking about it, so I'll just do the same.
I enjoyed this book sometimes, when it seemed to get into detail about how it actually felt to experience something - such as being in college, being in India, being manic-depressive, some of the sex scenes. But many times the book became a tedious summary of events in the lives of different characters and it was tempting to forget about finishing the reading altogether. Sometimes it felt like a very superficial approach to interesting topics, so it left me wanting more depth.
I found all characters to be too self-absorbed and spoiled, and feel sorry for themselves. Leonard seemed like an interesting character until I got to know him better and he became a two-note character, so I really hoped the girl wouldn't end up giving up on her own life just to make him feel better. I didn't want her to suddenly realize she was in love with Rhett Butler all along (I mean, Mitchell). So I was pleased that the ending at least wasn't so expected (though I kind of expected how it did end).
So there were moments of good writing which made it worth reading overall, but I didn't think it was that exciting a read, or that enlightening.
Jack
from England is reading texts of rejection from pretty ladiesFebruary 7, 2012 - 4:21pm
My thoughts tend to ferment after a week. Here are some further ones:
Madeleine is the least interesting character of the three. She sits at home and reads Jane Austen and worries about her relationship. Leonard deals with a psychological problem and Mitchell struggles with faith and doubt. She's not uninteresting, but palls in comparison to the other two.
The ending felt too neat. The device of the marriage plot makes a sudden crashing re-entry that actually kind of distracts.
The middle section of the book (from the time after university until they all meet again) is by far the most interesting.
Still loved it. Excellent book. Flaws always creep up on me later.
Pete
from Detroit is reading Red DragonFebruary 7, 2012 - 4:35pm
Jack said: Flaws always creep up on me later.
I'm the same way. I usually love a book after I finish it and give it 4-5 stars. Then a month or two later after really thinking about it, sometimes I drop a star (or in some cases even 2) off of my rating. It's weird.
Dude, you gotta read The Virgin Suicides and then Paris and the Hiltons needs to do a song about it.
Great movie, too:
I finished this book a few weeks ago and really enjoyed. I didn't quite connect with it the way I did with JE's previous two novels, but The Marriage Plot was still a page turner and easily one of the better reads this year. The whole marriage device explanation in a book that dealt with marriage was pretty interesting. The characters were fleshed out nicely and I found my sympathies continually shifting from one to the other. I loved the mood/tone of Virgin Suicides, the intricacies of Middlesex - but this one kind of felt like JE's most personal story - a very accessible read. The ending fit nicely - I think Madeline could probably benefit from some time away from men for a bit - which I think was kind of the point of the story ( at least one of them). Overall, the book did not disappoint - I just hope I don't have to wait another decade for the next one!
@liz: one of the main sticking points to win the pulitzer is to speak to a uniquely american experience. that said, the books/education/feminist bacground coupled with references to the talking heads, a manic-depressive boyfriend and people who shave off their eyebrows and talk about semiotics like they know what it is... is a most uniquely american thing.
all that aside, to me it made the characters unrelateable and flat. everyone falling back on philosophers for opinions, rather than having their own. i suppose this could be true (it's still a stretch in my opinion) for young college students. im thinking freshman/sophomore. but these people are graduating seniors, who, in my opinion should be able to reach into those philosophers, and all their classes and abstractions to make their own opinions.
that's without the eye-roll worthy writing along the lines of: there were better places to put thurston, but madeline decided he would never go there.
Except, of course, that semiotics in the sense it's used in the novel was a French phenomenon that found favor in the US, and that the feminist in the book happens to be influenced by French feminism which is not the same as American feminism (and we only meet her in a European setting), and that manic depression is not a uniquely American thing, etc..., right?
I should also point out that it's not, strictly speaking, a bad thing when not everyone has an opinion.
@brandon said: "I liked this one more than Middlesex"
That is amazing. I'm 300 pages in and think this doesn't hold a candle to Middlesex.
Ending?
The problem I'm having with the college world as it appears in the novel is that it's a bit too paint by numbers for my taste. Insert tormented smart guy who's even more messed up than he seems, insert girl worth pining after becuase she's sweet but not too sweet and smart but not too smart, insert superficially interesting theory lovers, insert - yes - French trends, and trips to Paris, of course.
I do like to be reminded of college but it's certainly not exactlly what I experienced, though I was an international student so my experience was by definition different from the one of most characters. I relate to a few things, but not to the endless navel gazing of these characters (I don't think I do).
I haven't finished yet though.
I was an international student and all I did was navel gaze and talk about theory. There's something to it.
Well, I meant the characters do it more in a whiny kind of way. But I loved theory too. I guess when you put it down on paper, it gets to sound pretty self-serving anyway. If I had had a journal at the time, I'm sure it would have sounded much whinier than their thought process, so I wasn't being too fair. But their whining sometimes sounds a bit juvenile.
It has taken me far longer to read this than I anticipated. Mostly because December was a very busy month for me. I was almost done, but then I was stuck at my mother's house without my kindle yesterday and I picked up The Hunger Games Finished that this morning, but now I have to read the other two. I'm at 91% on The Marriage Plot, so it shouldn't be too long before I finish and can join in whatever discussion is still going.
Finished!
I have to say, nothing happened the way I thought it was going to. Everytime I thought I was figuring it out, he through a wrench into the works.
I really really thought that Leonard was going to off himself. I was pretty much waiting for that most of the book. And then towards the end, I thought it was obvious he was going to do it. And then he didn't...
At first I thought Mitchell was never going to get her. Then I was pissed because it was so obvious that he was going to get her. But, he really handled it classy in the end. I liked that.
Did anybody else think the end was sort of abrupt? Well besides Raelyn because she said the exact same thing. haha.
I really liked the abruptness of the ending, and thought it worked well for what Eugenides was doing: creating a new age marriage plot. If you've ever seen the anime series Neon Genesis: Evangelion, in a very round-about way the ending of The Marriage Plot reminded me of NGE's ending. When asked, however, I wouldn't be able to articulate why since they touch upon extremely different topics.
In an earlier post I said I was absolutely 100% sure that Mitchell and Madeleine would get married by the end of the book. I thought this right up until the last page, which I reread over and over just to make sure I was wrong. Also, I too thought Leonard was going to off himself: specifically when they're in the train station. I was just waiting for him to jump in front of it.
Evangelion is a work of art. Seriously one of my favorite man-created things.
So do you agree with the similarity with the endings? As in the abruptness from Madeleine's statement in comparison to the abruptness of Asuka's.
I thought for sure Leonard was jumping in front of that train! And I also thought that Mitchell told him to do it. Like maybe Leonard asked Mitchell for advice because he knew he was a religion major and Mitchell gave him bad advice so he could "win."
Oh this thread is falling into obscurity before I got a chance to finish the book. My fault only. And I do enjoy reading it, except I had to stop for a while because of time issues. Well, if I finish it soon, I'll drop off some kind of a conclusion in this defunct thread.
I just finished the book. My first Euginedes, but there will be more.
The way time was handled in the narrative was expertly done. Winding backwards and forwards, but with such control. The honeymoon being bookended by their life in marriage for example.
I'm glad of Mitchell's final decision. They were wise.
Loved the use of semiotics and philosophy to talk about their feelings.
Beautifully written. The section of Leonard's mania was perhaps the best depiction of the illness I've ever read.
The Mitchell sections also had a strange effect on me, in that I came very close to understanding (at least I think I did) what the religious feel and experience. What they gain.
Loved it.
Oops, double post.
Finally found the time to go back and finish this book. It's been a weird discussion with people randomly finishing and talking about it, so I'll just do the same.
I enjoyed this book sometimes, when it seemed to get into detail about how it actually felt to experience something - such as being in college, being in India, being manic-depressive, some of the sex scenes. But many times the book became a tedious summary of events in the lives of different characters and it was tempting to forget about finishing the reading altogether. Sometimes it felt like a very superficial approach to interesting topics, so it left me wanting more depth.
I found all characters to be too self-absorbed and spoiled, and feel sorry for themselves. Leonard seemed like an interesting character until I got to know him better and he became a two-note character, so I really hoped the girl wouldn't end up giving up on her own life just to make him feel better. I didn't want her to suddenly realize she was in love with Rhett Butler all along (I mean, Mitchell). So I was pleased that the ending at least wasn't so expected (though I kind of expected how it did end).
So there were moments of good writing which made it worth reading overall, but I didn't think it was that exciting a read, or that enlightening.
My thoughts tend to ferment after a week. Here are some further ones:
Madeleine is the least interesting character of the three. She sits at home and reads Jane Austen and worries about her relationship. Leonard deals with a psychological problem and Mitchell struggles with faith and doubt. She's not uninteresting, but palls in comparison to the other two.
The ending felt too neat. The device of the marriage plot makes a sudden crashing re-entry that actually kind of distracts.
The middle section of the book (from the time after university until they all meet again) is by far the most interesting.
Still loved it. Excellent book. Flaws always creep up on me later.
I'm the same way. I usually love a book after I finish it and give it 4-5 stars. Then a month or two later after really thinking about it, sometimes I drop a star (or in some cases even 2) off of my rating. It's weird.