Just curious. Lonely as hell the last few days and feeling pretty raw, especially with a story I've been working on for about a week now. It seems I'm constantly trying to write my way out of feeling badly and constantly failing to manage it. My work always goes to what's closest to my heart, to whatever things are plaguing me, and while I do sometimes step back from a piece and feel good about it, feel like I found a way to say something my heart wanted to say, it never really makes me feel any better. Thus I wonder why the compulsion to do it. Just to fixate, maybe. I don't know.
What do you guys do when you're depressed? Do you write about it? And if so, does it ever help?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
No, writing never makes me less depressed. For that you need to eat a candy bar or something. Or have some orange juice. Sometimes a good Vitamin C boost will help.
Sometimes if I feel bad I just wallow in the miserable failure of every part of my life by watching happy people fuck on TV.
Agreed, writing only takes me to my dark place that is much darker while depressed.
Try porn, nothing like a good O to bring you back up.
Candy coated porn, what could be happier.
If the depression is real and deep then you may write one hell of a drama but it may leave you in a deeper depression. I have found out before though that my depression was rooted in sense of failure and the success of completing something is rewarding and alot of times if you take your mind off what is making you sad long enough to not dwell on it you may find that it was something silly or petty bringin you down in the first place. So for me writing can make me realize thati have been upset about shit that doesn't matter. But when the depression is justified there is no writing it out.
Fast food, porn, movies, alcohol.
Yeah nothing fills the void. I get too angry and impatient to write because my protagonist refuses to come to life and stop moping around to push the plot forward instead of keep up with it.
Exercise could help but I always feel too shitty from inactivity, porn, alcohol, and fast food to even attempt that. I would probably puke doing sit-ups.
Best I can think of is channel that depression into prose like most writers do (except Steve Martin).
You won't be any happier, but you will produce a piece of work.
Or just get a few bottles of nyquill and sleep for three days straight. Might work.
Writing hurts more than helps when you're depressed. It magnifies your problems, shows you your weaknesses, and makes the worst things in your life seem like the biggest, which isn't usually the case. What you write about becomes a central core to your life -- and it's dangerous to let that become the tragedies instead of the rare good thing.
I read happy things, watch Futurama, and eat. Not the best coping mechanisms, but they work. I do triangular breathing whenever my anxiety flares up -- which leaves me feeling "raw" and like my entire nervous system has been rubbed against a cheese grater -- and write as much as I can about things that have nothing to do with what's bothering me. That way, it's not the focus of my life.
It gets better.
EDIT: If it's real depression -- not just sadness or a passing feeling, but actual depression that roots inside you and rots you from the inside out -- don't sleep. Sleep at night for eight hours, but don't take naps or sleep for three days. Tried that, it doesn't help. It makes it so, so much worse. Depressed people have way more vivid, paralyzing dreams than non-depressed people and sleeping your day away makes you wake up grumpy and upset and feel like you can't function in real life, which is the first step to beating it.
Get up. Walk around your room, your house, your neighborhood. As long as you can function in society in the most base form -- by being there -- you're beating it.
Tab of Molly. You're welcome.
Tab of molly, chased with a cheap fifth of vodka.
Or buy a jet ski...
The vodka negates the Molly. I don't recommend it.
I don't think so many writers would have ended up offing themselves and/or dying of substance abuse related issues if it were possible to "write yourself out of" most problems. I think the only problem you can really, truly write yourself out of is "writer's block"....
I hate euphoric drugs. The feeling the next day is worse than the comedown -- you think about how great it was and know that you will never, ever feel that way again unless you take more drugs.
Six years after my initial depression diagnosis, we've realized that counseling and coping mechanisms aren't cutting it. So I started Lexapro this week. It's already taken the edge off of the anxiety and it seems to be working. It's a last resort, though.
Never works for me, although I used to get depressed if I went too long without writing, so I suppose you've got a shot if not writing is the cause. Trying to write and having fun with it might be worth a shot though instead of actually trying to write something that's good. Or writing journal-esque things about how you're feeling.
I probably shouldn't be a writer, then, because clearly all I'm doing is digging myself a deeper hole.
I don't box because I don't really have time, but I have gloves and a bag. I beat the living shit out of that thing and bounce around until I feel like I'm half ready to pass out, that usually helps a bit. I don't drink to drunkenness often anymore after years of self-abuse which between the smokes and bottles nearly ruind my heart.
I'm not sure I can even identify what's truly good or bad in my life, sometimes. It's all sort of slid into this delightful mudpit of incomprehensible nonsense. Which is often what my stories feel like to me when I'm done with them. Thankfully others tend to have somewhat more positive responses. I really need to get something else in the workshop soon...
It depends on how you do it.
If you just keep writing about the things that are depressing you then damn straight it will continue to depress you.
I was depressed before, I've been depressed on many occassions. I remember after I had destroyed my credit, ended my pro halo career, dropped out of college, had to move back with my parents, but at least had finally gotten out of the mental institution I was pretty depressed.
So I wrote of better times, it started out just as a series of memories and fantasies, it went on and developed into a novel, it gave me a sense of purpose. It got me out of my depression.
I've never written myself out of a depression, but I'm sure that writing would only dig me into a deeper fit of depression. That's what booze is for.
I'm bipolar (yes, bit of an overshare for a newbie, I know...). I find when I'm on a serious down swing, then it's pretty fucking difficult to do anything. Depression for me is horribly debilitating. At times it's impossible to get out of bed, or it can take hours to work myself into a state where I actually feel like life is worth living for, let alone putting pen to paper. So no... I definitely can't write myself out of depression!
However, I think writing is wonderfully cathartic, and can help ward off depression to begin with. When it hits though, I'm fucked, Not much can help.
Difficult one this. Cos there is clinical depression, or feeling really pissed off. The one is a medical condition, in that no matter how good your life is, you feel it and yourself are worthless.
Wen life sucks, or you think yourself into a hole, use it. Its like blues music. The blues isn't meant to make people feel better, it's meant to make people feel worse and you get paid to do it. The way I see it, feeling depressed shows you are still alive and feel something. You are not sedated by TV, sold a dream where you use finance to buy things that advertising tells you you need to be complete. Not numbed by the opiates of the masses. As for writing out of that hole. Everyone has that dark place in us. I see it as a challenge. I consider how far into the darkness I will go in and what will I scribe when in there. Most who don't write are not brave enough to write. To commit to paper the things somme people say are too gross or plain wrong.
The depression that comes is like a wave. On the flip side, nobody moans about feeling good or OK! The wave builds and builds, getting higher. Thats your good mood. But wakes break. When it crashes, there is nothing you can do but wait for it to hit the bottom and know that it will build again. I say write the shit out of it. Write every ugly, spiteful, angry, raw bit out of it. You can't write yourself out of it, but it does end. Sun sets. Sun rises. Waves break. Waves build. You will feel better. But you can make sure you use it as a muse.
Writing always makes me feel good, whether I hate to write what I'm writing or I love to write what I'm writing and I write too much. Writing is an addiction. Writing is therapy. I heart writing. I should really try to sleep before midnight.
When on a bout, I can't write for shit. It all spills out like vomit; no rhyme or reason or structure. I can only write after the bout fades. Then I have perspective. I don't think you can write yourself out of depression anymore than you can punch your way out of it. It's too uphill against the wind with only one lung. Get to the top of the hill first, turn around, see the whole view below you, soak it in, clear your head, slap on a little structure, and then write (do so before taking on the next inevitable hill). I find the universal muck that all depressives feel comes through then with amazing clarity--without sounding like a purge--and you actually grow a little for the effort. Maybe even develop a tool or two to make the next hike easier. AND, perhaps you'll even get a finished piece out of it which adds to a sense of self-worth, which in the end, may just be the ultimate cure-all for this tar-pit in our brains.
Mike, you've got a titanic reserve of balls.
Writing makes me feel better sometimes, especially if it comes from a deeply emotional place. Exercise and proper diet are key to fighting depression. And not just occasional exercise. It should be at least 30 min. a day, getting the blood going and all that good stuff. Music, blues like Jonny said, is my cure. I put on my favorite tunes if I'm feeling shitty, and almost instantly I feel better. Talking to friends or loved ones helps. I wouldn't be opposed to molly. I go for daily walks, and that can help big time and inspire you to think about your writing or your life. I smoke a lot of pot, too. That helps wonders. Until you run out.
A good night's sleep, a half tab of 5-HTP (which you can get at places like Whole Foods) and a cup of very strong black coffee.
Also, if I feel like shit, Pema Chodron's "How to Meditate" (an audio book) never fails to give me a lift.
The best rush from writing is finishing something and "publishing" with the flick of a mouse. Then come the reviews and reality sets in, but that's why we're here, eh?
Molly makes me more sociable but the happy feeling is just the chemicals talking.
I believe you said you started school. Well there you go, college sucks ass. Unless you go to a University.
I didn't notice that Avery mentioned vitamin C -- that's a good place to start, but it's been proven that some cases of clinical depression were misdiagnosed and are actually a vitamin B deficiency. I know that megadosing on B12 does wonders for me when I need a pick-me-up.
Also, Jeff is right about meditation -- that's why I do triangular breathing. It's all about finding equilibrium.
5HTP before bedtime. And exercise helps.
On just a suplement level, the moment I started taking Omega-3 pills (fish oil), a lot of the muck cleared up. It's not a "cure," but it has helped tremendously to allow me to function. AND it's natural. Courtney's onto something too with the B12, and Jeff with the meditation, and Michael with the talking/spending time with loved ones.
I mean, you are all looking at this depression as a biological issue, if the ritual of your vitamins makes you feel better then good for you, but in my opinion the ritual is more important for mental health issues.
It's a spiritual problem, it's an absence of direction, it's about self perception and habitual behavior.
I am onboard the meditation train, but my main answer about writing remains the same. If writing is a habitual behavior designed to hash over the things that depress you then it will never solve your depression.
If, on the other hand, writing is a method to insert direction into your life, if you look back on your writing and you think "I am proud of this, I want to show it to the world," if it helps you meditate on the core problems that you face without becoming overwhelmed by them, it can do the trick.
Say, for instance, this thread asked the question can rope be used to pull me out of a ravine, of course it can, if you use it to pull yourself out of a ravine. Of course you can also trip over rope and fall into a ravine, of course people can use rope to pull you into a ravine, but the question then is not in the morality of utility of the tool, but rather how these things are used.
"can rope be used to pull me out of a ravine"
NOPE!
because I would
"trip over rope and fall into a ravine"
Or, kill yourself.
I do not mean these words in a literal sense, but rather in a sort of Christian sense of dying to oneself. live for service to others, there is nothing better for depression than community service. You want purpose? You need direction? You want to look at yourself as a positive influence on your environment?
Go help people.
I know this is horrible to say but I'm so glad to see all the responses to this thread. I've been clinically depressed since high school and have always felt ashamed of it. Only recently have I realized how many suffer from it, many of them high profile; but I suppose to make any kind of art is to be broken in some way, or perhaps the art breaks us.
I've been fighting a particularly bad depression for the last month. When I was younger my depression manifested as sadness and I wrote ridiculous amounts of lyrics, poetry and prose. I painted, I sculpted, I drew. I didn't think about any of it. It was all rather macabre and full of angst, but at least I was doing something. Now when I become depressed, I'm not sad—I'm not anything. I want to do nothing, see no one, and I feel numb. All I want to do is sleep, and when I'm not sleeping I'm so tired I can hardly function. Every small task seems insurmountably difficult, from showering to going to the grocery store. I know my depression keeps me from writing; I also know that what I have managed to write when I sit down and force myself to do it, has been decent. But I have to force myself each time; and more often than not, I weasel out of it, saying "I'll do it tomorrow". Yesterday I slept all day, waking once around noon to toss out 250 words on a new short story before it became too difficult.
The best tools to fight depression are socialization, healthy diet (including supplements if needed), exercise, meditation and medication. I think writing can make depression worse in that it isolates you. I quit working a year ago to work full-time on my novel. In that time I have become increasingly isolated from friends and family, which has made me more depressed. Get out of the house. Call people just to chat. Tell them what's going on, so they can hold you accountable and keep you socially engaged. If you write, submit it to the workshop for feedback and get a dialogue started. Post to the boards; post to twitter. Engage other people. If you can beat the isolation, the rest will come.
Vitamin D helps as well. Probably should commit to taking multi vitamin and getting regular exercise. Impossible when you are depressed sometimes but if you can manage it, the brain will respond. Even just walking outdoors breathing in fresh air. I have the bipolar as well and the only thing that helped me was medicine. I hate that it is what I have to do to function somewhat normally but it beats the shit out of death. If the depression is severe you should probably seek medical help. I have read your stories in class and they aren't all dark and I enjoyed every one of them. So keep your head up and do whatever it takes to pull yourself up and out. I started one of my stories with a made up metaphor but it is, " My grandma said being at the bottom of a tragedy was like being at the bottom of a well, if you manage to Get yourself out, you'd better bring the water." Write it all down, it doesn't matter if it "gets you out" of the depression, all that matters is when you do get out you'll have "the water".
Interesting responses here.
Honestly, while I do believe that there are sometimes biological reasons a person can be depressed, mostly I don't understand people who are happy. Life is pretty shitty. I don't want to feel depressed all the time, sure, but my goal isn't really to be happy because my 30 years here have led me to believe that most people chase it endlessly without ever actually getting it. Contentment is more reasonable. Which isn't to say you can't be happy. I think it's possible, just very difficult, and usually short-lived.
And yeah, college sucks. Today was my first full day, 9:30 to 3:00. I feel... questionable. And like if I have to do any homework, my brain is going to melt into a pile of goo. But I get to read like 7 chapters by the end of tomorrow! YAY!
EDIT - Yeah, Stacy. Very wise. And thank you again, I appreciate that you took the time to read those. I do think I have a tendency to write what's on my heart, though, and a lot of it ends up dark. The things my poor mother has endured. My poetry is painful even to me.
"Life is pretty shitty."
You're life is pretty fucking awesome. I don't know you very well, but I know you have internet access, food to eat, clothes to wear, and you get to go to college. Also, people on here - strangers even - took time from their lives to respond to your internet thread. Be grateful for your shit.
"I don't understand people who are happy."
Maybe they realize they have it pretty sweet and smile seven times a day.
In my experience, writing has helped me deeply with my depression. I'm working on a story right now which has two main characters in it, one which is extremely introverted and another which is extremely extroverted, and I've found writing in the extremely happy extroverted voice of my character has helped me change a lot.
I would say try writing in a positive character's point of view just for the hell of it. Even try writing an overall positive story. Kind of the 'fake it, to make it' philosophy. It may not be as pure or as true to your current thought paterns as you'd like, but on the other hand it might help balance you.
I hope that helps and good luck!
-Peter
Gratitude has jack shit to do with happiness (I'm very grateful for my blessings), and luxury and convenience, even opportunity, have nothing to do with it either. Broken relationships, unachieved life goals, one's perception of success and failure, whatever, that's the stuff we see regardless of our situation. The whole starving children in Africa argument doesn't mean shit. I'm not starving and I've never been to Africa. This is the baseline position that I have known. Misery is entirely subjective and merely looking at people "more miserable" than you (which is an entirely unquantifiable statement to begin with) doesn't just make you happier by proxy. For one man, having nothing to eat; for another, losing the love of their life. For one, losing a family member to starvation or war; for another, losing a loved one to cancer. It doesn't make much difference to the subjective experience of pain.
My theory is that we generally zero out on it at some point. It takes its toll, regardless of the form or the direct physical impact, and tremendous hardship that reads on paper like the worst thing you can imagine may have the same verified result as something that reads on paper like not really the end of the world. Real impact is always relative. I can tell you right now that what I went through after my divorce and the failed relationship that followed, where I basically stayed perpetually drunk for 6 months, was the worst thing that ever happened to me, right up there with watching my father's brain die as I gave him CPR. I hit the bottom of what I was capable of experiencing emotionally. Had my entire family been murdered, I'd have probably felt about the same. There just wasn't any further down to go. I'd rather not talk about just how far down that was for me, but I can tell you it could only have gotten worse by the addition of physical torture. I'd probably have felt worse if you sliced my eyelids off or burned off my genitals, yeah. But that would be about it. Honestly, from what I've read about starvation, it would have been more pleasant and a hell of a lot quicker.
You may want to tell me that the situation was my fault and that I was acting pathetic, and I wouldn't argue, because those are true statements. But that's got nothing to do with it either. We don't experience less pain just because it was our fault versus someone else's.
Anyway, you can make fun of me if you like, if you really feel comfortable enough to judge my life based on the mere fact that I can access the Internet and go to school, while knowing nothing about my familial, educational, or fiscal background, but that's your call. My point is simply that most of us go through a lot of terribly difficult things in our lives, and at least from what I've observed of those that I've known, most of us don't come out the other end a whole lot better for it. I know a few people who are relatively happy, and mostly this is through some sort of absolved responsibility. But I don't see happy or fulfilling futures for those people as most of what makes them comfortable now is ensuring their lack of provision in the future.
Seems to me no matter how good you have it (on what's a pretty relative scale to begin with), the defining feature of most people's lives is struggle. You can try to put a positive spin on everything, say that life is what you make it, celebrate opportunity, be glad you live in such a wonderful country, that you've got food and shelter, blah blah blah, but however true that may all be (a lot of it is), however true it may be that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, strength doesn't equal happiness. I'm stronger than I've ever been. I've made choices I never could have made ten years ago, done things, gone places, learned skills, dared circumstances. But am I any happier?
Well, if you're depressed, go to your doctor and he will prescribe you some drugs that will elevate your mood. I took something or others for a while and it was lovely. If you're naturally inclined toward depression, you can take a fair number of them for a long time, with minorish side-effects, and most of them aren't too hard to stop taking.
In addition, go talk to a therapist. That's what they are there for, and they are very helpful.
In answer to the actual question, you can't anything your way out of depression. Recovering from it is a process and a methodology, so unless you can take off the next 6 months or so just to get better, the depression will interfere with your ability to help yourself.
Telling somebody that they shouldn't be depressed is bullshit. Mike is right -- there's only me and my experiences and how my brain processes them. Discounting someone's unhappiness makes them feel worse, not better.
Well, look. Here is how I viewed this statement, and to be honest it made me angry. Now, right or wrong, I took Michael’s post here, “Honestly, while I do believe that there are sometimes biological reasons a person can be depressed, mostly I don't understand people who are happy.” To mean that he did not feel he was biologically depressed, but rather just that he didn’t think happiness was really worth pursuing for any reason because life is just shitty. And not just for him, but for everyone. And he has a hard time understanding or even believing that someone can actually be happy.
That, to me, is bullshit.
And yes, it was probably awful for me to tell him he had a nice life (tough love? Maybe not), I find it just as awful to say to the masses that happiness is short lived and not worth the effort.
Basically the same exact thing, only I said not to be depressed and he said not to be happy.
I was way too angry to post rationally, I'm sorry.
I'm not going to make assumptions about Mike's condition, so I'll use my own. I've been clinically depressed for six years, and during a lot of it, other people who were happy frustrated the shit out of me. I thought they were naive or just plain ignorant and that they couldn't be happy, so they should stop trying -- because that's what I'd experienced.
Happiness isn't permanent -- contentment can be. I think that's what Mike was getting at. There was a really interesting Cracked article about perceptions of happiness and how what we define as "happiness" is unrealistic; I'm writing this quickly so I can get to an engagement, but if you google "Cracked happiness" it'll come up.
I think your post was well-intentioned, but it's so irritating to hear "your life is better than these desperately unfortunate people, so cheer up." Go tell someone with the flu "you're healthier than an AIDs patient, so get better."
Sorry for overreacting.
First of all, that's my personal perception. When did I ask you not to be happy? Hell, when did I say anyone shouldn't be? I said that from my perspective I see what most people define as happiness to be unobtainable or at least unsustainable for a long period, and that striving for contentment seemed the more reasonable goal. What exactly about that pissed you off? And why should even your misinterpretation of what I said piss you off?
Dude, it's fine. I'm not going to fight about it. It's no big deal and I even said it was awful of me to say that stuff. It struck me the wrong way. It still does, but it's my perogative to not get into an online tiff about it.
So with no passive aggressive sarcasm I say I'm sincerely sorry I made that second post. I stand firm by the first one. Also by the third. The second one I typed while I was mad, and I should have just had my orange juice and gone to bed.
Every time I drink orange juice in the evening, I can't get to sleep before midnight. I think chocolate milk works for me.
Americans are depressed because they have too much time to think.
I'm not going to use a different avatar until somebody politely asks me to change it...
No one wants you to use a different avatar.
You weirdos.
Seems like the way my book's been going (dark) I have to put myself into almost a depressed mindset to get back into character to start writing again. However, once I've sat down and let it flow for a few hours I always walk away feeling much better than when I started.
Sounds ass backwards, but I found that if I'm too cheery the voice of the character is completely lost and I'm left with a bunch of text that ends up highlighted and then deleted-which, in turn, makes me depressed.
Dearest jacks_username,
On behalf of parents everywhere, in the name of good taste, and for the undying love of almighty god, please change your avatar to a picutre of a zombie with his brains hanging out, or a garbage-pail kid, or something we can all be comfortable with.
Respectfully yours,
Politely Distraught / Distraughtedly Polite in VA
^ I hope no one thinks that was too flippant for a thread about depression. I actually am sorry if my joke troubled anybody.
If I'm depressed I use that to write an awesomely depressing short story, which then makes me happy. So to answer your question, Michael: Yes, yes you can.
I think I may be doing that now. This is the first chance I've had to write since school started, or at least the first chance when I wasn't too exhausted to think. I don't know if the story is awesome or not, but I'll be damned if it isn't depressing. And it's sort of making me feel better. I'm a touch afraid that I'm getting off on making these people suffer.
Mike, I think you found your answer with Sound's comment. Short story-writing sounds rewarding. Channel some Poe!
W. Jordan
